Posted: 11/12/2008 4:31:12 AM EDT
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My cousin wants to get into shooting before he goes into law enforcement. I gave him some council on what guns he should be looking at buying to get in some trigger time and pointed him in the direction of a 40 S&W model Glock, XD or M&P.
Today he sent me an email saying that he likes the Glock 23 and wants to get the 23C model. Should I steer him away from the C model as a first gun? When I was first looking into buying a gun for a duty/concealed carry gun I was told that compensated guns are a bad choice because they will kill any night vision you have and interfere with follow up shots if I were to train or get into a self defense shooting at night. Is/was this sound advice and are there any other issues I should bring to his attention when I respond to his email? |
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Quoted:
I gave him some council on what guns he should be looking at buying to get in some trigger time and pointed him in the direction of a 40 S&W model Glock, XD or M&P. Today he sent me an email saying that he likes the Glock 23 and wants to get the 23C model. Should I steer him away from the C model as a first gun? You made a huge mistake was in recommending 40 S&W for a newbie. [Fotey Luvvers, back off, your personal experience is irrelevant to this discussion] Your cousin would be far better served with a stock Glock 19. FACT: A 9mm pistol is cheaper to shoot than 40. FACT: A 9mm pistol recoils less than 40. FACT: Ceteris paribus, it is easier to shoot quickly and accurately with a 9mm than a 40. FACT: A 9mm pistol carries more rounds than the same model in 40. You are correct in that the C-Model Glocks may present some issues in terms of a CCW piece. I have never tested the theories of getting burnt with hot gas during a close-in shot, or blinding myself with the flash. I do know that they're louder than other guns (which for me, is enough of a downside). In any event, a newbie who needs to work on the Fundamentals of Marksmanship needs something with minimum recoil, so as not to develop any bad habits or flinches. Actually, a 22LR target pistol (like a Ruger Mk III or Browning Buckmark) would be a much better first pistol purchase for him. After a month or two of shooting little black bullseye targets with that, from 21' to 50' . . . then he should get a 9mm. |
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Shaken:
I understand what you are saying about the 9mm. The reason I recommended the 40 is because about 90% of the LE agencies in the area where he is going to be getting a job carry the G-22. The rest issue a 19 or 21. While I agree starting noobs off with a 22LR is ideal most of us deal with less than perfect circumstances. |
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I have a 19C and there are 2 myths that are just not true.
1) The front site gets dirty and is not usable. This is not true. I have never had any problems with my front site getting fowled, even after hundreds of rounds in one range session. 2) Your night vision is ruined. This is also false. Most of the time you do not even see the flame out of the ports. On the occasion that I blink at the right time and see the flash, it would not hinder my follow up shot at all. |
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Quoted:
I understand what you are saying about the 9mm. The reason I recommended the 40 is because about 90% of the LE agencies in the area where he is going to be getting a job carry the G-22. The rest issue a 19 or 21. Scorch, If he's going to be issued a 40, then there's still no reason for him not to purchase a 9mm. He'll be able to practice more cheaply and will gain valuable skills before he gets to a department. Then, when he finally gets a 40 (or 45), he will be much better equipped to transition to the larger calibers. While I agree starting noobs off with a 22LR is ideal most of us deal with less than perfect circumstances. My first pistol was a SIG P226 (because I needed something I could CCW and do home-defense with). My second pistol was a Ruger Mark II (and it has more rounds through it than ALL THE REST of my firearms combined). |
my advice: if its a "serious" use gun, stick w/ the non-C models for now...get the regular G23/G19 (i would opt for G19 myself, but since he's going into LEO, the .40sw might be a better investment IF thats what they use since he can get the free ammo later and familiarity now )
as to the "negatives" of "C" models: muzzle flash and 'night vision" depends on the ammo...some ammo, it will provide enough muzzle flash/blast at night to blind anyone temporarliy, irregardless if its "C" or not that said, generally, the "C" does not blast as much as one would think (esp after seeing those glock magaizne pics/ads). also, just about any ammo that has muzzle flash comming out the muzzle will ruin "night vision" the diff is the ejection: flash/debis/powder, etc is now comming out of the top and muzzle the "Cs" are "louder" in mostly b/c of the porting is now directed more towads the shooter ok found my "C" model post from earlier: personally, imo, if its for a defensive/duty handgun, i'd leave it std, w/ no comp––so, i'd recommend the regular G19 your GF just needs to get adapted to shooting in general––put more rnds downrange; the G19 as is has very controllable recoil characteristics imo and does not need to be compensated unless its to provide that extra umph during competition runs now, as to arguments for and against "c" models for defensive firearms, i'm more of one of those that are against it arguments include: ––C models have more flash near the muzzle area (due to the upward ports) that can lead to night blindness...well, "it depends" imo, a major factor is AMMO; certain types of ammo/calibers just have more flash (or less flash), and thanks to the ports, that flash is now ejected not only forwards and in a cone at the muzzle, but re-directed upwards in the FOV of the shooter so, if you use a C at night and have no problems, cool ––the ports also redirect 'crap'––mostly particles of powder, debris, hot gasses, etc; well, it the flecks really dont both most folks and doesnt even break skin h/w, in both of the above, imo, its just one more potential factor and area/direaction (esp if you make shots closer to yourself for contact shots) that stuff can get in your eyes or cause excessive muzzle flash––the muzzle imo is a fine place for stuff to come out of (ala: bullets), but having a secondary vent is not my thing some other arguments are that C models dump the debris buildup on the front sight; well, for most gunfights, it wont be enough rnds to matter b/c it takes a lot of rnds before the soot buildup is enough to hamper your front sights imo C models loose velocity; well, it does, but not that much (~25FPS-40+/-FPS, depending on the load/bbl length, etc)...not really enough to matter imo there were a couple others, but i dont remember em off the top of my head YMMV ETA: i forgot, the C model for the 9mm and .45acp for me didnt really help an all too much (but the change was noticible), but the one for the .40sw/.357sig does seem to help a little more just my .02cents |
If I were your cousin I would tend to stay away from the compensated model because of the flash issue. I have a 19c and the first time I fired it at an indoor range the damn thing was like a flame thrower. it does blind you for a split second and that was with the 9mm, I can't imagine what the .40 cal version would be like. Outdoors in the daylight, you really don't have an issue even though I never shot mines at night, but indoors is a different story. I actually bought a spare standard barrel for my 19c. another thing I did notice with the compensated version is that you'll spend time keeping your front sight cleaned, no big issue though.
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