Posted: 11/1/2007 4:35:34 PM EDT
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To start off, I have a G19 that I love but i'm looking to go full size for Home Defense/Range fun I have my mind set on a G17 or G34 3rd generation due to the rail My question is, when I stick a light on the gun, am I going to want night sites as well? My only worry is when I flip on the light I won't see the best sight picture without the nite sites Am I being too worried or is it a must? |
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Night sights are a plus. You should not use the light unless absolutely necessary. There should be enough ambient light in your house to see if that shape in the middle of the room is the lamp post your aunt edna gave you and is in the same spot for the last 20 years or Mr. Mongo with a machete. You'r enot a SWAT team entering an unknown building. this is your house where you know where everything is, where every creak in the floor in which room sounds like. Use the home turf to your advantage and stay steathly. beaming a light all over the place just alerts the bad guy that you're comming and to just ambush you. When compared to a rifle round, all handgun rounds equaly suck. I don't feel at all undergunned with a 9mm. Get good ammo designed for self defence like Ranger SXT, Corbon, etc... A .22LR in the eye is more devastating than a close miss with a .50BMG. Take a training class from a reputable school to build your ability and confidence. |
This may be your home, but you should still have a light. I know I couldn't live with myself if I accidentally shot a loved one because I didn't identify my target before pulling the trigger. I'm not saying the light has to be weapon mounted. It could be a hand held flash light, but you do need a light. Personally, I have a Surefire X200 for my G19 when it is on the night stand, and a Streamlight Stinger in the charger beside it. Jay |
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Get the G34 or another G19. You need the light, or a flashlight more then night sights. That said, I use night sights (front blade as a minimum) on every glock. WHEN you are using the white light, you will hardly use the tritium, you will be balancing tons of white light in gap around the front sight. WHEN you turn the light off (which you should do a lot as you move etc) The TRITIUM will look HUGE. Also when you do a reload in the dark it gives you something to focus on. Remember, your white light will kill your night vision also. AND, God forbid, the light could fail on the first shot or not work at all when you need it most, then what. I keep a surefire 9Z on the night stand with red lens and P91 bulb (200 lumens) A G19 in the lock box in the night stand with a weapon mounted light. Then a benelli with a weapon mounted light near by. I have all the 9mms, g17 was first the g26 for ccw, then the 19 and now the 34. I would rather have two G19s and two G34s, but I hate to sell anything so for now they all stay. Plus I only bought one of them new, the 26 and the 17 were $300 each. The 34 is long, no biggie, but when I compete up close I feel faster with the 19, but it is mental. I would never worry about clearing a house for a G19 and it is my NIB low mileage always clean and loaded in the box house gun. |
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PS, don't take this wrong, but if you ever cleared a house or a shoot house by yourself in the dark you would know all these answers. Get some low light / no light training. Even if it means going to a friends barn or something. There is no substitute for using your gear in the dark. Once you have done this you will know what you need and you will gain some confidence. I have seens tons of gear fail when we turn out the lights and shoot. You should practice going from no light to intense light, lights on to all off, shooting on the move in the dark, shooting things that are moving in the dark, on and on. It is the scariest and most fun you will ever have with a handgun the first time you do it. |
What are you a retard, you know exactly what it means, maybe I should put it in terms so that retards like you can understand. Stopping power 
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Yes, I must be a retard, since I don't know what "knockdown power" is. Thank you. G |
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Knockdown power is a hundred pound Rottweiler hitting you square in your chest. See link |
| I have night sights on all my Glocks. I don't have a light mounted to any of my Glocks, and unless I come down with some kind of Rambolista virus, never will have a light attached to one of my Glocks. I do keep a light handy, near my bedside, just not attached to my Glock. |
Or a 180grn hollowpoint 
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Iquestion your understanding of wound ballistics. |
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If you have a weapon mounted light, your sights will appear clear and black, backlight. Just about perfect. Your target illuminated, identified, and clearly sighted. It makes decision time a little easier. I'm not a big fan of night sights, you can get a fairly good sight picture in total darkness, but what/who are you shooting at? In low light, normal sights are still useable, in my opinion. Target identification, friend/foe, to me, is more important than sight picture. YMMV |
I am definately looking for the target ID usefulness that a light provides, I live in a college town, so I want to make sure the person that just busted through my door is actually a bad dude and not some drunk neighbor/lady friend looking for some action before I let some lead fly thank you for all the replies, i'm thinking the G34 is for me anyone know if you can get them from the factory with night sites installed, or do they just come with the regular adjustables? |
You have not only shown you haven't a clue about terminal ballistics, but your an ass. With the limited amount knowledge that you have, maybe you should be asking for help instead giving it. |
This get's beaten to death, there is a MINOR difference in "stopping power" as you call it. Not enough IMO to warrant a .40S&W. I have 9mm and 45ACP, 40 is an inbetween round that doesn't do anything better. Costs more than 9mm and dosen't have the ballistics of a 45ACP. Skip the 40, 9mm will do everything you need it to. |
I have a dedicated HD pistol Mine is a Glock 21 and I keep it on the nightstand with what is shown. I keep it loaded with 13-rds of 230-gr Speer Gold Dots and two reloads of the same (39-rds total). The Glock 21 has Green Front and Orange Rear Mep Night Sights. I like the two color sights as in the dark it can be pretty easy to confuse the three dots in the dark and under pressure. With two colors, I always know which of the three dots is the front and because the green is brighter it is easiest to pick out and point with. My Glock 21 also has a Lasermax laser installed and I like it as it provides a way that I can point the gun at someone without having to be looking down the slide. I have shot the Glock with the lasermax installed and at any distance I would shoot inside my home the bullet would hit close enough to the laser to take care of the problem. I do not practice shooting with the laser, it is simply an extra tool if I should ever need it. The weapon light is one I have had a long time and it is an ITI M3LED. The white light is about 60 Lumens and is quite adequate to blind an intruder and it works exceptionally well to illuminate a dark room or house. The one I have is the red LED and the light is very dim which makes it great to allow me to turn it on to navigate the house without giving away my location. The handheld light is a Surefire Z2 and I do practice shooting with this light as well. Having a hand held light allows me to direct the kids or wife without needing to point the Glock. I was slow to adopt the two is one and one is none principle but try defending your house with absolutely no light (IE SOMEONE KILLS THE POWER) and see what it is like without a good light! I spent a lot of time deciding what I wanted in my ideal home defense handgun and this is what I ended up with after much thought and walking around the house in the dark trying to imagine what I needed to give me the upper edge with the scum or the earth decide they are going to come calling...  This is a pretty expensive setup all together but this is more then a HD pistol, it is a system or a number of parts that work together to give me an edge when I need it most. I would spend som etime looking at your options and see if you can handle a Green/Green night sight equiped glock and one with 2-color night sights and play with BOTH in the dark. Then, buy what works for you... |
Yeah, mounting a light on a handgun also doesn't make sense to me. You want to "discover" that it's a friend, only after you've pointed a loaded weapon at him/her? As to the "discussion" of knockdown power/stopping power, bullet placement, as most of us realize, trumps so-called knockdown power. A well-designed 9mm hp is just as likely to stop an aggressor as is a .40. What's all this silliness about one-shot to the chest? You guys incapable of pulling the trigger more than once, without making a follow-up decision? If my ass is in a sling, I'm going to put a FEW quick rounds into the target, hoping that at least one of those rounds will be FATAL!!!!
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Night sights have another advantage... If you pull the glock out of the safe at night and it is sitting on a dresser, you can spot your Glock in complete darkness by looking for the night sights. My Glock sits with the night sights towards me in bed for just this reason. As for the weapon light being pointed at a potential friendly, as I posted above, two lights are the way to go but once your family is secured then anybody else that may come into the picture is fair game to have a slug put in their chest or skull. |
I too thought about the same exact set-up, but already having my G19 and quite a few 17 and 33rd mags was one of the deciding factors to go the G34 route On a side note to keep my interest in the G21 peaked, does anyone know if the old style G21 mags will fit in the G21SF? |
Sorry, forgot that every time you respond to a thread that you have to give indepth technical answers or it brings out the experts like you. I merely said that a 40 has more than a 9mm so it would be a better option, I did not say that the 9mm is useless that you need to just throw them all away and buy 40 calibers. I myself have several 9mm's and do carry a G19 from time to time, but I prefer the bigger heavier bullet that the 40 has over the 9mm, just my .02. |
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Add in my vote for a G34 with light and night sights. Anyone who says it isn't handy to have both the light and the night sights hasn't tracked and shot something in the dark or has much better night vision than I do. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire and it does not matter what you point the weapon and light combo at, IMO. Whatever you do, get the G34 or G35 - they are the best shooting of any of the Glocks and perfect for home defense. |
I shot a snowshoe hare 3 times with a heavy loaded 45 colt and finally had to stand over him long enough for him to bleed to death. I "calculated" on body weight that a 22 RF is about the same to a rabbit what a person being shot with a 50 BMG. He was torn up bad but didn't stop. I would not expect a person to stop no matter what cartridge they are shot with. |
Just goes to show everyone once again that shot placement is more important than caliber/velocity/weight/ft lbs/etc....... If you don't out the bullet in the right place, it will not do what is intended. Once the bullet is placed in the proper place, everything else comes into play. |
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At ranges less than 20 meters I dont ever use sights. I cant understand the purpose of "Night Sights" on handguns that are either only going to be used inside your house or for CCW purposes. Practice more Point Shooting. You're going to be at Contact Range or close to it. 
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You can't imagine a scenrio where the home intruder is danger close to one of your family members and you want to be damn sure where you put that round, moreso than just point shooting for COM hits... huh? Jay |
I agree that shot placement is the most important no matter what the caliber. |
Forgive me, I forget that not everyone on ARFCOM is a moody loner with an itchy trigger finger that lives in a rural area of a state that likes dead bad guys. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but for me, night sights are worthless. What's the point in getting a "good sight picture" in the dark?  My Glock 17 has 20 rounds in it and a SureFire X200B mounted on it. Should I have forgone the SureFire and gotten Night Sights put on all my Glocks? I'd rather be able to identify what I'm shooting at rather than get the perfect sight picture on a blurry "could be a bad guy, could be a deputy, could be santa claus" shadow moving around my darkened house. |
Maybe you live alone, but I have a wife and daughter in the house. I can think of situations where I would want to be as accurate as possible. Personally, I don't want to try and having to live with the emotional aftermath of shooting them because I was some super badass point shooting mofo that was too cool to use night sights. Jay |
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Get the gun/caliber you have the most experience/confidence in. All mentioned will do the job admirably w/ proper shot placement. Get the night sights and some kind of good, dependable, BRIGHT light. Target I.D. is essential!!! Mine is a non-weapon -mounted Streamlight, as my old 3 digit SN Mod 17 has no rail. Having not used weapon mounted light, I won't enter that debate. I think having options for accurate sight acquisition w/o turning the light on, ie night sights, adds to your versatility and potential for an outcome in your favor. Most important; PRACTICE until everything is 2nd nature! 9mm practice ammo is cheap, another thing to consider if $ matter.had Finally, the 12ga. pump in the closet w/ #4 buck tac loads is my first choice. Practice w/that, too! Go over every possible scenario in your head repeatedly; there may not be much time to think if/when it actually happens. |
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1. G-34 2. Tritium nightsights 3. Weapon mounted light That is the minimum. 9mm is good. Shot placement is critical with every caliber, 10mm or 44mag, it doens't matter if you miss your target. Light is critical for target ID in the middle of the night. Even more critical: SHOOT AT NIGHT, let me say that again . . . SHOOT AT NIGHT with your equipment and see what works and what doens't work. The last is the real key for whatever system you come up with. |
There is no such thing as "knockdown" power in any man portable small arms system. |
I have shot in the dark some, but since it was outdoors, I don't think it was really representative of what would happen if I shot indoors in the dark. Anyhow, I am saving up to get a set up like QB's, 'cept with a 17. I could also use some ideas on....placement is I guess the best word.... of the gun....I am contemplating mounting a fobus style paddle holster to the inside of my closet above the door as I have kids and a night stand isn't the best place, and I hate the idea of having to mess with any sort of safe in the dark n the middle of the night... |
I have, and found one very important thing. When firing with an attached light, you will be BLIND. Smokeless powder my ass. I found the best thing to do is aim, fire, and move out of the smoke cloud. Repeat as necessary. I have had no formal training in night fire other than a short course in the Navy. YMMV. |
gun vault for mounted under the bed or things like that, or what I use in the night stand seems to be a good source I know the $100 or so on a safe always seems like a pain, but it is money very well spent. The things I gain by having one are. 1, weapon is hot, no loading to be done 2, flashlight is mounted and working, has not been borrowed by children 3, spare mag is next to weapon in safe, where I left it 4, peace of mind 5, also, if you come home to an intruder, your loaded pistol will not be used on you |
Yet another arfcom expert has surfaced, like I said next time I answer or give an opinion it will be as technical as possible so experts like you and some others will understand 
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I love my 19, and I think night sites are a must. Only thing that bothers me is leaving it in the nightstand drawer with a loaded chamber and the gun is NOT in a holster. I have NO problem carrying it (in a holster), but with a loaded chamber, in a drawer, with no safety does bother me a bit. I keep it in condition two, but this bothers me because I can't quickly get the gun into action with one hand. If I put it in a holster, it will require two hands to free it quickly. So, what can I do? Maybe I'm too paranoid, since I doubt someone would get into the bedroom without my 3 dogs letting me know about it. Oh, btw, I keep a surefire G2 with the P61 bulb in there for a light, plus a big ass maglight. I like the idea of the light separate from the weapon because sometimes you need to investigate without pointing the weapon everywhere. One night, a loud noise got me out of bed, the dogs were going nuts. I grabbed gun and light, listened, looked, had the lady with my cell phone, waited, then investigated. After making sure the house was secure, I eventually went out to my detached 2-car garage, and it turned out that one of the springs for the automatic garage door had snapped (under tension). Very loud! I could keep the gun under my sweats the whole time, so if a neighbor (or maybe a LEO called to investigate the same noise) might see me, I wouldn't be leading with a weapon. Just my .02. |
Knockdown Power is what happens when a criminal is hit in the chest with a 12ga slug! BTW I keep a G17 with nite sites and a Glock Light and an extended barrel (oem G34) on my night stand and an 8-shot riot gun next to the bed. |