[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Glock: Most Reliable Pistol? (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 10/12/2006 5:27:49 PM EDT
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Glocks have a solid reputation for reliability... but I wonder, are Glocks THE most reliable pistol? What, if any, pistols have comparable reliability? Perhaps Sigs? I really don't know, that's why I'm asking. Let's have a friendly, clean debate about the most reliable pistols of all time! |
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I've been curious about the HS testing since I heard about it. I've had many glocks over the past 10 years, and between my friends and I have probably seen 50 or so 9mm guns go through the ringer (this includes guns my friend watched get abused as rentals at shooting ranges). All I see in them is absurd reliability, and very, very few parts failures. Does anyone have any further info on the HS tests? |
That sounds like straight-up bullshit. Glocks do not break. |
Got any documentation/info on your statement? |
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Glocks may or may not be the most reliable weapons, but they are rather easy to work on, from what I've heard. Probably one of the reasons that they are valued by Survivalists. Reliablity-wise, Ruger probably has it beat. Rugers are rather ugly and people have issues with Bill R., but that's for another thread.... |
Where can we see these HS tests? Two guys getting together who don't like Glocks is not a test. |
Drop a revolver in sand. Trsut me (had an accident this weekend) and that jammed it up quite nicely. Glocks seem (20 years) to be the most reliable pistols out there so far. Lets see proof about them failing the aformentioned tests? |
Me too. Ruger are only "good" guns if that is all you can afford. |
The HS testing was the most thorough testing of handguns ever done by any LE agency. Millions of rounds were fired through more than 100 pistols from Glock, Sig, HK, Smith and Wesson, and a few others I can't recall. The results are confidential and restricted to LE agencies. BUT you can see from which two pistols were selected who won HK and Sig Sauer. They were the only pistols to actually survive the testing. You can find some info if you google it but the actual report is not public. 60K or so Pistols to be purchased... Functionally, the glocks had issues because the testing was done with .40 cal pistols and with full power duty ammo...all of it. It just beats the crap out of the pistols and the glocks suffered small parts failure which knocked them out of the competition. Had they been testing in 9mm, I am sure that the 17 would have done better than the 22. |
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Department Of Homeland Security Awards Handgun Contracts For Immediate Release Press Office Contact 202-282-8010 August 24, 2004 The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced the award of two contracts today for handguns for all organizational elements within the department, including U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the Transportation Security Administration, the U.S. Coast Guard and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. SIGARMS Incorporated and Heckler & Koch, Incorporated each received a contract award with a maximum quantity of 65,000 pistols that may be purchased over the next five years. SIGARMS Incorporated, a small business located in Exeter, New Hampshire, received a $23.7 million contract for 9 x 19 mm and .40 caliber pistols. Heckler & Koch, a large business located in Sterling, Virginia, received a $26.2 million contract for 9 x 19 mm, .40, and .357 caliber pistols. The two contracts will enable DHS personnel to acquire handguns in three popular law enforcement calibers and a variety of sizes. These contracts represent the results of the department’s Strategic Sourcing Program that is designed to optimize cross-departmental acquisitions through collaboration of agency technical and acquisition experts. The Weapons and Ammunition Commodity Council, part of the strategic sourcing program, identifies and consolidates emerging firearms and ammunition requirements for all Homeland Security components. As part of this effort, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) released a Request for Proposals in February 2004 for the procurement of handguns. The ICE National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit led the ensuing evaluation. “This type of multiple contract award will provide the government the flexibility it needs to enable the DHS entities to address their diverse operational missions, while still maximizing logistical efficiencies found through standardization,” said Thomas Trotto, Director of the ICE National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit. The technical evaluation of the proposals included a comprehensive handgun test protocol involving a rigorous battery of environmental, reliability, durability, and other tests. Approximately three million rounds of ammunition were fired through 690 handguns of 46 different models during the testing, which took almost four months to complete. Aside from the actual live firing, additional testing was conducted through laboratory analysis and armory inspections. In all, each model was evaluated against more than 50 characteristics before arriving at a technical rating. This data was used in conjunction with past performance and pricing information to select the winning contractors. The Homeland Security Weapons and Ammunition Commodity Council continues to analyze the department’s requirements for weapons, ammunition, and other officer safety products to identify additional strategic sourcing opportunities. |
GLOCKS ARE THE MOST RELIABLE PRODUCTION HANDGUN ON THE MARKET TODAY. I am not just saying this because I am a Glock fan, because I also proudly own H&K, SIG, S&W, Ruger, and Rock Island handguns. Its just a hands-down fact. I like my eye candy weapons, but when I go to work, its a Glock G22 on my hip.  Now, I have been the Army Reserve several years, and often wondered why the DOD has not went with Glock when compared the the more-expensive, less-reliable, crap-tastic Beretta 9 Sillymeter that we are currently issued in my MP unit. Several members of my unit, who are also fellow police officers that are issued Glock also wonder about this. I've heard that its a matter of contract and negotiation - which includes service, parts replacement, and warranty policies. I've also heard that its because the DOD is apprehensive about giving soldiers a weapon without a physically activated safety because of liability. Then, I have heard that ALOT of the weapons selection process has to do with the Capitol Hill gang and what they get out of the deal - meaning bribes and gifts galore. Proof: Anyone old enough here to remember when Federal Agents carried CZs? *shudder*  Could this also be the case with the Department of Homeland Security's decision? Someone do an investigation and get back to us with something more than a blanket press release. 
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Well that was a whole lotta worthless crap to post. 
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That is only 6000 rounds avg per gun. Any glock can do that without burping or cleaning. Not saying none couldn't possibly break something.... but using only 690 guns.... that aint gonna be a lot of chance for any gun to fail miserably unless there was a serious design flaw. Any of the weapons in the running should have passed that easily. |
What "small parts" failed? In 6000 rounds? Sorry. Aint buying it. |
And we've all seen the kaboom pics of Glocks posted here on this site and others, but that's common knowledge. I've shot the hell out of Ruger pistols and they work, period. I've also shot the hell out of a Glock and it had some issues with feeding from time to time. That's never happened with the 2 Rugers I've handled. YMMV |
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I've put somewhere between 3,000 - 5,000 rounds through my G-17 with 1 stovepipe... let's be honest, we can fairly call that a fluke probably caused by ammo or limp-wristing (I'm not sure what the "dud" rate of WWB is, but so far it's been very good for me). So my Glock has been VERY reliable (1 round short of perfect) so far and I'm quite pleased. |
Wow, that's a great way to give yourself credibility. "I can tell you, but then I'd have to kill you." 
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I'll be honest.. I have about 2500+ down the tube of my G23C, The damned gun shows almost no signs of wear whatsoever. I did have one jam using the aluminum cased CCI crap where it peeled part of the case back and wedged partially in the chamber. Other than that, it has been 100%. It will be there if I need it. 
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Yep, MMV a bunch. |
I have a friend who is the current head of testing and on the DOJ national pistol team, He said the Glock failed to pass testing. But the test was unrealistic. They fired 500 round continously and the recoil spring guide rod melted. Go figure, anyway that is how Border Patrol and INS got the Beretta 96 that the then Head of testing wanted. Testing is always slanted IMHO. Buy a glock, I shot my first one in 1983 in Europe, and I could not get my mind around them until the mid '90's . I now own 3, love wood and metal, But Glocks are just so tough. JMHO |
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There is one small part I can think of that has failed on my glock. When I shoot my G19.... I bring about 20 loaded mags with me. On steel knockdown plates, I am firing about as fast as I can, while someone behind me pulls the cord to stand the plates back up, and I will go through 20 mags worth at a time (300 rounds). The gun is smoking hot, and I am fatigued after that session. My guide rods still look just fine, but I did wear out a set of spring cups that capture the firing pin spring. I took them to my glock smith, a very popular one at the gunshows, and he said that was the first pair he had ever seen worn out. I can only assume it was due to high temps and sustained firing sessions. Gotta say.... it took about 7,000-10,000 round to get there. If they were firing repeatedly, 500 rounds at a time.... I can see the glock failing.... maybe. Does sound like a silly test. |
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Some of you retarded monkeys are trying to tell me that a Ruger P series, is more reliable than a Glock? If that is true, then why don't we see more LE carrying Rugers? If a ruger is tougher than Glock and significantly cheaper than glock, I should see them in the holsters of cops everywhere! Someone please try to rationalize that for me!!!! BTW the border patrol adopted the 96D because of the double action only feature to make a smoother transition from their old S&W .357's. Which you still see some patrol agents carry. |
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The reality is that DHS probably selected SIG and HK over Glock due to anything else BUT reliability - probably safety features (idiot proofed), ergonomics, or some other silly shit most Glock owners like myself could do without. All of my Glocks are 100%. I have experienced a higher failure rate with every other major handgun manufacturer's product I have tried (S&W, Ruger, SIG, Springfield XD, Kahr, Kel-Tec, Beretta, Taurus, can't think of what else I have). |
I'm not sure safety features are silly. For what they want the guns for, cops who for the most part are not interested in guns and won't train with them anymore than they have to, they are probably better off not having glocks. There were two cops in my area who shot people accidently farting around with their glocks in the past couple of years. Great pistols if you are into shooting, but not a great pistol for a casual shooter or someone who is issued a firearm at work. |
Actually, the testing had nothing to do with safety features. All of the pistols that began the test met the criteria for safety and whatnot. The determining factor was reliability/durability/accuracy. Manufacturers reps were present for the testing from each company. To everyone who wants to see a copy of the test, you can thank the MANUFACTURERS for the test being confidential. They are the ones that insist on keeping everything close hold. If Glock wanted it released, they could release it. They all have a copy. Why don't you e-mail GLock and ask them why their pistols failed? |
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GLOCKs are by far the most reliable handguns on the market. I have fired a good different makes and models (Beretta, Walther, Colt, Kimber, GLOCK, Kel-Tec, S&W, Ruger, ect) but GLOCKs are just the best in my opinion. Rugers are fine but after owning a number of them I found they were not very reliable and I didn't feel comfortable with them no matter how reasonably priced they were. As far as the Government's test - keep in mind that the Government's tests are often setup to get the results they want in the first place. When the Military sought a new sidearm the GLOCKs weren't allowed to compete due to the established critera of the design ruling them out. Also keep in mind that 65% of the US Law Enforcement carries GLOCKs. CSP P.S. To each his own. GLOCKs work great for me and I know I can trust them. |
we've all seen top ar-15's kaboom as well...what's your point about the kabooms? |
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If they where concerned with the plastic type guide rod and the KB issue associate with the .40cal glocks then all you have to do is 1. Purchase your chose of SS or Tungsten guide rods (many of which are out there) And 2. Install Bar-Sto barrels with fully supported chambers and you end up with a more accurate gun as well. Put it in contract that Glock does this at factory for you and you have no logistics to cover and pistols come to you allready assembled and all that still under the price of a SIG. That would be one hell of a bitchen Pistola my ARFcommers |
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Glocks are the most reliable pistols I have ever used, and I've tried them all folks. My first Glock, a 19, that I bought in 1997, has about 50k rounds through it. I have only had 2 parts break. The extractor broke after about 30k rounds, and the trigger pin broke after about 35k rounds. The only time it ever malfunctioned was when the extractor broke. I didn't even know the trigger pin was broken for awhile because the gun still functioned perfectly. I used to shoot alot of Wolf steel case ammo, but after the extractor broke, my Glock armorer suggested it may have been caused by the steel cased ammo, so now I only shoot brass cased ammo. This gun still shoots just as good today as it did the day I bought it. |
 I shoot a Glock 22 in USPSA open/ major, never clean it, can get any kind of part you can think of,( most parts available overnight if needed) I have less than 2 grand in it and it runs better than a 3 grand STI. I drop my mags in the sand (Florida sand) pick em up put em back in and it keeps feeding no problems. While all the pretty guns are having problems with FTF, FTE, gotta clean the mags every time you drop one. It did however take me 6 months to get my Bar sto barrel, but it was worth the wait. I have had NO problems with it at all after thousands of rounds, and currently looking at a new frame.www.ccfraceframes.com/advantage.htm Seem like there in no end in sight for modifications to this wonder of modern science.
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DON'T QUESTION THIS GUY!!! HE'S GOT BOTH 'FED' AND 'DC' IN HIS NAME - TWO THINGS THAT ARE KNOWN TO BE THE EPITOME OF HONESTY, EFFICIENCY, AND KNOWING ALL!!!!! Sorry, Fed - but I have worked with enough feds to know they can screw up a wet dream. They squeeze the common sense out of everything they do through an amazing amount of bureaucracy and hard-headed ignorance. They have no ability to quickly adapt to anything and seem to rely on the cool letters in their name instead of actual capability to get anything done. If the feds came up with the test, it was likely stupid in the extreme and had nothing to do with real life. Glocks have a proven track record of being the most reliable pistol out there. Sigs are pretty good, and so are HK's - but if the feds somehow managed to fool themselves into thinking the Glock was unreliable - well, I somehow get the image of a monkey having its way with a football. My dept was issued Sigs for the first 7 years I was there. We had nothing but problems with parts breakage and malfunctions (unless you want to count the horrible finish that I believe was designed to accelerate rust). I actually watched the slide shoot off a low-round count gun. I never went to the range without some sort of malfunction on either of the 2 sigs I was issued (got a second when after everything else broke and was replace the frame finally began to crack). Since we switched to Glocks guess what - no problems except one broken guide rod on one officer's gun - and the gun still worked. I still have yet to see a single malfunction with anyone's glock at the range over the entire time I have been a cop at any training i have been to that wasn't caused by us feeding the things empty cases. I will say that when I switched to a Glock while i was on the SWAT team (I personally bought one since I was having so many issues with my Sig - as was everyone else), that I got smoked on malfunction drills all the time. Everyone else had lots more practice than I did. |
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Bro, if you wanna compare resumes we can. Its the internet... I seriously doubt what you are saying about the Sigs having that many malfunctions. My Agency has about 1500 sigs in service, some more than 15 years. While I have seen a few parts breakages, they are very very rare. Every malfunction I have seen with our sigs came from ammo problems. My only malfunction with my issued 229 came from a primer being backwards in the case. As for rust...again, I hear about it on the internet but I don't see it in practice and we have some guys that never clean their pistols. Not to mention that all of the sigs made in the last few years are stainless steel and aluminum. How are you getting a stainless steel pistol to rust? We also have several thousand Glock 19s that are issued to security personnel and they do pretty well. They are decent pistols but just like the sigs, they do have some parts breakage. I have seen trigger bars that were galled, firing pins that were frozen in place, recoil springs that rusted and broke, and guide rods that wore down to where they would not stay in place. At the end of the day, all guns break... Most people swear their particular brand is foolproof and never breaks but then again they aren't really working the gun that hard. When you put upwards of 50K rounds through it in a matter of a few years like I did with my first sig, you learn a LOT about what it will and won't do. My first sig had a crack in the frame at the 50K round mark. So what? 50K is a LOT of rounds and at that point IMHO a duty weapon should be replaced anyway. The funny thing was that I had no idea it was even cracked. You had to have a jewlers loop to see the crack and the gun ran fine. I will never understand why people get so up in arms about Glocks. It is like you insulted their religion and their mother when you tell them that Glocks are not perfect. I guess it is true when they say arguing on the net is like special olympics. |
| I've owned two Glocks, a 26 and a 19. Both had over 2k rnds through them and never had a jam. They were both very accurate and no other pistol is easier to clean than a Glock, IMHO. I sold both because I now have young kids and didn't like the ideal of not having a manual safety. I know I'll get flamed for that statement, but it really was my personal preference, nothing wrong with the two pistols. I kept most of my 19 mags and intend to purchase another in about 3 years when my son is six. By then I will have started him out shooting and he will be well versed in firearms safety. I now have two Berettas, a 92 and a Px4 in 9mm. Both have been completely reliable, the 92 has more than 3k through it. I miss my Glocks and will definitely get another one in the future. Are they the most reliable handgun, probably. But they share that title with other makes too. |