Posted: 6/21/2006 3:23:16 PM EDT
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I'm new here... heard allot about the site, the reason I registered here is cause the company I’m getting my new Glock and accessories for said I’d get a 5% discount if I was a member of these boards :) But I’ll stick around anyways, who knows if I manage to break the “unbreakable” maybe I’ll need your guys help. Anyways I have always been very skeptical of plastic guns, and have generally shied away from them, the closest I’ve gotten is a Sig P228. Well I decided to put away the plastic fears, and go get myself a Glock 19 w/ lasermax and a couple extra 31 rnd mags :p I've read allot about Glocks from you guys and you have all praised it very well. I hope that you guy’s aren’t just bs’ing about it cause I’m actually buying it and I prefer not to have a junk gun. I'll take a picture of it for you guys once it arrives and tell you how I like it after I go shooting with it. I know one thing for sure... I’m not going to torture test it, rolling a brand new 750$ gun around in the dirt and than letting it grind just doesn’t seem wise to me. (444$ for the gun 300$ for the laser) Anyways guy’s thanks and any good tips on stuff I should buy for it? Cause I’ll have 2 factory lock 15 rd mages and 2 factory Glock 31 rnd mags. Any good holsters you guys know of that doesn’t feel to shabby? What ammo does it like to eat for practicing? Winchester white box ok? |
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WWB is regarded as great practice ammo. A big plus is that Wal-Mart carries it. You might want to invest in some night sights, or steel sights. I've never had a problem with my plastic ones, but some people have (either wearing down from a holster, or losing them altogether...I have the adjustable factory plastic sights and haven't had a problem). I have a Comp-Tac holster, it's molded plastic (kydex? I don't remember). It's an OWB holster. I really like it, quality and holds the gun securely while allowing for a good draw stroke (bought it used for $24). Most of the kydex holsters are nice in that they have an adjustment screw for how tight it is. Not a whole lot of leather with that feature (though there are some....). If you want to carry, Milt Sparks is supposed to be top notch for carry holsters. Have heard LOTS of good things about the Versa Max and the Summer Special. No experience with them. I just use my Comp-Tac for range use and it works great. By the way, I have a G17 (not a 19). Not a whole lot of difference in advice. Oh, one thing though. If you're carrying it, you might want to have your extra mags be the G17 mags....they fit fine (just stick out some) and give you two extra rounds. |
Purely my opinion, but I would skip out on the lasermax. I see those types of things as a liability if it's a carry gun. If it was a plinker I'd say sure, why not? But the only thing I'd add to a carry piece is night sights. Just my $0.02. 
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I don't see the price being worth it. I think you'd be better served with ~3000 rounds of WWB, or 2000 rounds and some night sights. Also remember that while "night sights" don't grant you the ability to see in the dark, they are awesome around dusk or so. Try using your AR15's irons when it is about to get dark. A light would also be choice, either the Glock light (they're fairly inexpensive, about $70-80 or for an extra $20 get a Streamlight M3). I don't think anyone needs a laser as much as they need practice ammo. Oh, and yes, the Glock 19 is a good carry gun. |
+1 for $300, i'd rather have another G19 or lots of ammo and mags... |
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price is not an issue for me guys, i've got plenty of 9mm ammo Plus lasers actually in court are better for the shooter because you can use the argument "he saw that i had my laser on him and he kept on advancing on me and i feared for my life" Basically if i've got 300$ laying around i'll get a laser for it. out of the two, which is better? Crimson Trace or Lasermax? |
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If I remember correctly, in order to adjust the Lasermax unit, you have to send the unit and your pistol to the factory. Actuating it requires you to push the takedown lever sideways through the frame, bleh. The Crimson Trace system can be adjusted by you, and to turn it on all you do is grip the pistol. Down side is that the laser is on everytime you have a firing grip on the gun, but you can use your trigger finger to block the beam if your not ready to put that dot on target. Were I to buy a laser for my Glock, it would be the Crimson Trace. I already have one for my Ruger SP101 and have had nothing but good experiences with it and the company. I think they might still be doing batteries for life with the purchase of each laser. Hope this helps. matt |
I just hope you realize that you asked for opinions and you got a lot.....a lot of different ones too.....but in the end we all know it's your gun and therefore your decision. You don't have to justify any of your decisions to us. Everybody is different and that's fine. Oh, and as for why you need more than one Glock........I'll give you a year with yours and then give us an update and tell us if you want/have another by then.   Two different guns for two different purposes.....but both Glocks.  Congrats on your purchase and I hope you love it and it treats you well!
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You asked for an opinion. You shouldn't be defensive about your choice of putting a laser on. It is your life. And for all that stuff about lasers not bieng worth it why do you think swat uses em? And if your gonna tell me that they're crap than i'll just think your a (I guess a clown). You are the person who asked for opinions. My brother owned a Glock with a laser. I have a laser on one of my .45s. Does this qualify me to express an opinion? Variously, I have trained with members of and/or under the direction of LAPD SWAT, SEALS, FORCE RECON, a private aircraft manufacturer's take down/hostage team, and the list goes on. I disclaim that I am military, CIA or a governmental operative. Does this qualify me to express an opinion? Obervations: 1. a laser is a target indicator. A laser can be spotted by a person who is targeted. He will know the source. There are other devices that do not provide a signature, but the laser is not one of them. 2. when you fire a handgun with a laser or you move your hand, the laser can bounce all over. The only function is pinpointing a place of impact. This becomes necessary when a person does not have the fundamentals of framing that assures a person being dead on. A laser pinpoint on a target is no substitute for shooting fundamentals or understanding ballistics. I have a lot of firearms. I practice with my glocks from point blank range to 500 yards. A laser does not correct for ballistics. 3. a laser does not assist in target indentification. Believe it or not, if you study human ergonomics and receive the correct training dealing with framing you can shoot walking, running or in near pitch black conditions accurately. Try using a laser when walking or running. turnipseedtechnique.com. A laser, a light on a gun, a grip reduction, replacement sights - various options on various firearms. It depends upon what works for a person. I read the gun rags. I see excellent shooters making a living in competitions. They run a course in Bermuda shorts with shirts emblassoned with the names of sponsors. They shoot tricked out guns with pistol scopes. That isn't me - and it isn't me when shtf. I would be interested in learning what SWATS use lasers, how many of the team are given the lasers, what the applications are - and then why the rest of the department isn't given them. Speaking about a SWAT team. I did a pistol course with a retired LAPD SWAT instructor. The drill was quite simple. Start at point blank range. Fire into a target's base of the throat continuously. However, you must be moving backwards at all times when firing. You also reload at least three times while on the move. So you are walking while shooting and reloading. Try it. The SWAT instructor couldn't do it. Why? Because his mindset was in the old system of backup, stop, two to the chest and one to the head. The morale is that just because SWAT does something in training (or equipment) doesn't make it right for the person or the situation. By the way, my Crimson trace unit sits on an unused gun. 
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If I was going to get a laser, I'd get the M6 light/laser combo or a Lasermax. I like how it's internal, and the sucker is BRIGHT. I played with one at the SHOT Show. Lasers just aren't my thing, I guess. I think it would be pretty cool if you put a Dr. Optic on your Glock, though. |
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I would say to hell with the laser and put the money towards training. I took a pistol class from Tactical Response. It was a two day class and was great. A good value that really improved my training. edited to add To reiterate what one of the folks said about CIA, SF, SEAL, SWAT, SFOD-D guys. One thing they have that you don't is training, I would work on the training. All the gadets and gizmos are a crutch without good training. |
| Great handgun choice. The Lasermax did a little better compared to the CT in a recent torture test in SWAT, I think due to it being internal. In any case, I agree with many others here in that the laser $$ could have been better spent. If this gun is for self-defense, the $$ should have been spent on a firearms class and a Surefire 6P. There are many taught throughout the country by well known instructors. Lasers are excellent tools but IMO, should be added after one has grown familiar with his weapon's sights and is very competent with it. Maybe I read your post wrong and this is just for plinking since you bought 31rd mags instead of more 15rd factory mags? |
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Ok well guys i'm not getting the light because it's gonna be my concealed carry and i honestly dont feel like havinng to carry that unwieldy thing around + holsters that go with the light are hard to find. Again I said money was not an issue, I can do all that stuff + the laser. I got the 31rd mags just for the plinking aspect, because i plan on shooting it everytime I go to the range, plus carry it with the original 15rd mags that came with it. Basically if i wanted to i could get a surfire light, but i really dont wanna be carrying that around concealed. Plus i also decided to get the tridium night sights. |
Let me get this straight. You're not will to carry a light that would allow you to positively ID your target because it is too big and bulky, but you're going to carry one of those bulletproof bunker shield things that look like a riot sheild on steroids? Or is it just that you are trying to copy some members of a SWAT unit with little or no comprehension of why or how they are using the equipment in question? |
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Comment re tritium night sights. Same comment. You get what works for you. With the first shot, you lose your night vision. The purpose of the tritium sights is not to identify a target. It doesn't even purport to project a light onto a target. Tritium sights do not make up for a lack of skills. Let me give everyone a challenge. In my situation, I have had eye surgery. My vision is uncorrectable although I have prescription lenses. I do not practice with prescription lenses - that is reality. I cannot see bullet holes in a target at 15 feet - so you understand my vision is pretty dismal. Ok. Put on very dark welder's goggles. Move the target to a point where you cannot see the bullet holes. If you want a real challenge, move the target out so that it is nearly indistinct from the dark background. For me, a plain buff 50 foot pistol target disappears at about 22 feet. Now practice. All of a sudden, you start to realize that hitting the target consistently is based upon proper framing. Take someone's tritium night sights and run them in this experiment. Then report back how much help tritium sights are for fast shooting. You might also start to learn that the old "two to the chest and one to the head" doesn't work in low light. You won't see the head if a person is shot anywhere on the body. So, in one night, outdoor shotgun class, we are supposed to engage 5 targets standing side by side, using a weapon light. I am shooting an 870. 5 shots almost as fast as the trigger can be pulled and the slide racked. The instructor raves. I didn't use the light and he didn't notice. Not necessary if you have a target highlighted from behind by the moon and you have learned framing. Skills can make up for a lot of equipment deficiencies. The converse is not accurate. |
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i have a streamlight M6 (laser/light) that i got for my birthday. i only use the laser to pinpoint the center of my light cone. i use a GG&G rail adapter to attach it to my USP, and it fits rather loosely. as a result, the laser is impossible to zero. im not sure if this is the fault of the M6 or the rail adapter. i carry the M6 in my pocket when im out at night. the light puts out 90 lumens, and side by side comparison shows that it outperforms a 4D mag light and a surefire flashlight of similar size. the light is cleaner, brighter and more focused. its kind of a funny shape for a flashlight, but the ability to snap it on to my weapon is cool. if it were my money, id buy the M3 (light only) instead. ive been told that some cheaper ammo comes with brass jackets. brass jackets do not generally interface well with the polygonal rifling found in glocks and USPs. if you run into some practice ammo that shoots poorly, dont blame the gun. i am pretty sure that this is why WWB .45 from wal mart shoots poorly in my USP. although i have no way to test the jackets, this seems logical because the gun shoots most everything else exceedingly well. |
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"but you're going to carry one of those bulletproof bunker shield things that look like a riot sheild on steroids? " What the heck do you mean by that???? You've got me completely boggled. I don’t even know what a bulletproof bunkershield is.... rofl Anyways... no I’m in plain civilian clothing, t-shirt and pants. If I am able to conceal the G19 I’ll be lucky, I couldn’t even imagine doing that with the light attached.... This will be my concealed carry gun, I’m not going to attach a darned bulky light to it... now if their was a light that worked like the lasermax I would have gotten that instead but noo the dorks never made one of those.... I don’t intend to need to know why my target is anyways lol. I have an alarm system in my house if it goes off then someone that I don’t want in my house is inside of it. Yes i live by myself. Also, if I’m going to shoot someone in public I’d have no reason unless they were close enough to harm me anyway, so I wouldn’t need a flashlight, since if they were that close I would be able to see them. If they are far enough away at night to where I cannot see them their would be no reason to shoot them since I could reasonably attempt to flee or if they got close enough to where I could see them that’s when it would only warrant me shooting them anyways. And when it comes to the skill thing I intend to get good with my gun really quick. I have more ammo coming than you could ever want to know... I have a whole pallet of ammo on the way... with the quantity i bought it only costed me round 80$ per 1000rnds that includes shipping :D Basically a whole factory fresh pallet. I figure that should break in the gun.... and take a few weeks to eat up. |
| Dude, not to sound mean but if this is your thinking, you're in for a big surprise. By reading your posts it's obvious you are inexperienced with firearms self-defense. That's not a bad thing, we all were. You've taken the initiative to buy a great handgun and ammo but that does not make you trained. You owe it to yoursef to get some good training. With all this money you have to spend, why not go to a week long class at Gunsite? You'll learn a plethora of important things, one of which is to always have at least a handheld light when carrying a firearm. That's why I suggested a 6P, it is not a weapon-mounted light. |
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Actually... Don't worry about the "Grinding" of the new gun at first. In fact, you're SUPPOSED TO use "Glock Approved" grease with granular material in it... (For 300 Rounds for break-in) This is supposed to "Polish" the slide rails, and the frame rails and to make the gun more functionally reliable... Then after those 300rds you can clean the gun, and use regular oil/lube on the firearm. Until then you're supposed to fire it with the standard gold/silver colored grease stuff and not use normal gun oils. |
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As said guys i dont mind spending the extra cash, and probobly will take a cource.... but the question still reamains how the hell would i conceal it with a bulky light underneath? Maybee a better idea would just be to carry a small flashlight on you at all times as well? That would easly fit in your pocket... And bout that oil stuff... does the glock come factory new with any oil in it? And if it doesnt come with the abrasive stuff where could i find that cause i dont feel like ordering it online. Any stores you know of? |
This is the first I've ever heard of using anything abrasive during the break in and it's not anything that I'd ever do.  They come from the factory with some coppery looking anti-seize compound on the rails and maybe that's what he's referring to. I've taken a NIB Glock that still had the stuff on there to a class and had it run 100%, but the general recomendation with all new weapons is to field strip and thoroughly remove whatever grease the come with and apply a proper lubricant. Breakfree CLP and Militec-1 are probably the two most popular lubes. I prefer Breakfree. The coppery stuff Glock uses is different, but most guns and gun parts leave the factory in a grease that is meant to provide the best possible rust prevention while the item is sitting on shelves in warehouses and it usually isn't a good lubricant. |
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I didn't know what that grease was for either... I had fired about 50rds through my new Glock 17, Field Stripped it, and then Cleaned all the Copper Grease off the gun when I cleaned the rest of it. I took it to my gunsmith to have the 3.5# disconnector added and get some other trigger work done to it... I was slapped up side the back of the head & given a lecture... "You didn't read your manual, did you!?!?!?!?" Don't you remember the part on Page 37 where it says, "Note that the copper colored lubricant found on portions of the slide of new GLOCK pistols should not be removed, as it will help to provide long-term lubrication of the slide..."??? I thought it was just a lubricant, so after 50rds I wiped it off. He did the trigger modifications I had requested, and then promptly re-greased my slide rails and my firing pin safety plunger (not sure of the name) with the grease just like it was when I got it from the gunshop. I asked him what was so great about using grease instead of oil? He told me that YES, the grease IS a lubricant, but that it is ALSO A POLISHING COMPOUND. The Tennifer Finish on Glocks is incredibly tough, and has a bit of friction between NEW slide rails, and the frame rails... I was informed that the reason GLOCK doesn't want you to remove that, and to just let it go away over time isn't so much because of long-term lubrication... YES, that does have good long-term lubrication, but mostly because the Copper Grease Lube ALSO is a metal polishing compound. I asked him WTF for? He said it's to lube & polish the slide rails and frame rails for more reliable feeding, and to lube & polish the firing pin safety plunger (and respective part of the transfer bar) so the gun operates more smoothly during the recommended 300rd break-in period. Okay. That sounds weird, I've never heard of that before, but I went out & shot my gun some more... This time I asked a GLOCK rep who stopped into Bills Gun Shop (Robbinsdale) earlier this month, and he said it's true... The way I was explained it, it's mainly a lubricant so people don't just go out and fire their guns dry when they buy them new, but the reason they chose THAT SPECIFIC LUBE/GREASE was because it also acts as a polishing compound during the 300rd break-in period. I asked him why the gun needed it??? He just confirmed what my gunsmith had told me... That Due to the fact that Glocks DO NOT have full-length guide rails, and the frame rails aren't really "Machined" precisely to fit HAND-SELECTED/HAND-FITTED SLIDES like fitting a 1911 or other more customly machined gun, the GLOCK slides are simply Mass Produced... The FRAME rails need to be polished to better fit the SLIDE rails, and this will add to the reliability. I thought WTF?!?!?! Why doesn't the manual state that? He said it's better to just tell the public to leave it on, and eventually it will wear off after 300 to 500 rds anyway. By then the should have cleaned it and re-lubed it with a traditional oil in the 6-positions that Glocks need to be oiled. He said that's also why glocks don't put the grease in ALL - 6 positions; Just the ones that may need polishing during the break-in... After the 300rds I was told the break-in should be complete, and the grease can be removed and replaced with a more traditional oil like CLP, Hoppes 9, etc. I was told that using the Copper Grease all the time PROBABLY wouldn't cause any harm to the gun, but he said he just recommends using whatever you want after the 300rd break-in rather than buying the Copper Lube grease and using it all the time. So that's what I was TOLD, but it's not in WRITING in my manual... I'd guess it's true since I heard it from BOTH a Glock rep AND my Gunsmith, but who knows... I did as instructed, and after I shot my 300rds, I cleaned it off and started using my normal gun oils. I'm a certified AR-15 Armorer, and I soon hope to take two GLOCK armorer's courses this winter as well (I like to be certified in the repair & maintenance of ALL my personal firearms). If I hear more about this during the armorer's certification course, I'll let you all know. If I was mis-informed, then who knows... I just thought if I heard it from TWO sources, then it probably has some truth to it. That's just what I was told by two sources that I deem to be credible. 
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So you suggest that i just take my brand new in box glock and fire about 500 rnds through it at the range and than take it apart and lube it up? Not just take it apart and lube it befor i go to the range? Thanks for all the info... it really helps, cause i would have surly taken it apart and taken all that grease off and applied oil lol |
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I'd say to check the book... The book lists SIX (6) PLACES to Lube your Glock... 1.) The back of the Frame (By the spring/disconnect area) 2.) The underside, or Cam area of the Barrel 3.) Around the outside of the Barrel 4.) In the top of the slide 5.) Down the Left Slide Rail 6.) Down the Right Slide Rail The Glock comes factory greased on the SLIDE RAILS (5 & 6), and on the Firing Pin Safety Plunger... SO, that STILL leaves FOUR (4) parts of the Glock unlubricated from the factory. I suggest lubricating areas 1-4 on the gun before taking it out & shooting it. That way the gun is fully lubed where needed, and it still has the grease where needed as well. |
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Thanks and i intend to go buy more guns really soon... i'm more addicted to assault rifles than pistols though. My next one will be an PTR91, and than after that SVD Dragunov. :D Now if glock would ever make an assault rifle i'd be first in line to get it. The pistol was for defence purposes :) Maybee i'll get addicted to it and buy another. As to the ammo thing, i bought a whole pallet of silver bear ammo. Silver Bear 145 grain Bi-metal HP Nickel plated steel case, non-corrosive Basically i payed around 70$ per 1k and 10$ shipping on each. But i bought the whole pallet from the manufacturer it's self. Thats ALLOT of ammo, usually you can get it for 89$ a 1000 + shipping. I figure it should chew through paper just fine, and the glock should eat it really well too. I love the russian stuff nice paper punchers. |