Posted: 2/25/2017 6:11:19 PM EDT
|
Watched a video by mac .
He said only carry ball ammo . The hp i carry in it (gold dot) said it penetrated 4in What do you carry ? Should i carry ball? This is a off duty , going to the store , summer carry , vaction gun |
|
There are lots of good .380 carry ammo options now a days:
1. Speer Gold Dot 2. Federal HST 3. Hornady Critical Duty 4. Many vendors loading XTP bullets If you buy smart online, any of the above can be had for $0.50-$0.70 per round shipped. I wouldn't say that ball is a bad choice, just that there are better options. Whatever you get, be sure to put at least a minimum of 100 rounds of it through your pistol with zero stoppages of any kind. Much more important than your choice in carry ammo is your awareness, training, fitness, mindset, & holster / belt / cover setup. That said, I carry HST in my G42. |
|
Check out this test report of many .380 options:
Defense Ammo Tests BTW, Hornady Critical Duty is optimized for full sized handguns. Critical Defense is their short barrel product. |
|
Clear Ballistics gel is not analogous or even linearly comparable to ballistics gel across various bullet designs. Â You can't draw any applicable conclusions from that test series.
Critical Defense is inconsistent due to variable behavior of the rubber plug as a piercing mechanism and often underpenetrates in .380. XTP is the closest thing to meeting FBI standards but clogs on heavy clothing sometimes, in which case it acts as an FMJ so it still penetrates well at least. XTP is all I would carry. Â |
|
Quoted:
Clear Ballistics gel is not analogous or even linearly comparable to ballistics gel across various bullet designs. Â You can't draw any applicable conclusions from that test series. Critical Defense is inconsistent due to variable behavior of the rubber plug as a piercing mechanism and often underpenetrates in .380. XTP is the closest thing to meeting FBI standards but clogs on heavy clothing sometimes, in which case it acts as an FMJ so it still penetrates well at least. XTP is all I would carry. Â |
|
Penetrates like ball but with some other added benefits. If you are into MAC he also has a video of this stuff.
https://underwoodammo.com/shop/380-acp-p-65-grain-xtreme-defender/ https://underwoodammo.com/shop/380-acp-p-90-grain-xtreme-penetrator/ Edit for video: MAC |
|
.380 is a funny round in terms of self defense. Typically, you can have either penetration or expansion but usually not both. The small round usually just doesn't have the energy to give both.
I have become somewhat of a junkie on the subject of ballistics gel testing. I have watched more online gel tests than I care to admit over the past couple of years, so I like to think that I know at least a little something about the subject. Having said all that, like I said above, .380 is a tossup. FMJ typically overpenetrates, sometimes massively, on the order of 24+" of gel massively. A lot of typical hollow points underpenetrate, again sometimes massively, because they expand very aggressively and don't have enough energy to penetrate adequately. Federal HST, for as good as it is in larger calibers, only does about 8" in organic ballistics gel because it expands massively but can't penetrate. The FBI (say what you want about the FBI, they seem to be almost the only organization that takes wounding and testing seriously) has said that SD bullets should penetrate at least 12", not over 18" and expand at least 1.5x its original diameter through a variety of barriers. The only real tests that equate to SD are the bare gel and heavy clothing tests. These tests seem to equate pretty well with real world SD bullet performance. Speer Gold Dot in .380 consistently does 10" in bare gel and a little more in clothes gel and seems to open up very consistently. Good performance out of a .380, even if it does underpenetrate a little. The various loads using the Hornady XTP bullet seem to perform very well. They don't expand very much (they typically seem to expand to about .42-.43") but they consistently penetrate well enough to meet the FBI specs. Like I said, .380 does not have enough energy to both expand well and penetrate well so the XTP bullet is a very good option. Myself, I don't buy into the cult of the exotic bullet, like the various Extreme Penetrator or Extreme Defender bullets. Based on everything I have seen ( including a couple of classes for my LE job), pistol bullets do not have enough velocity to cause damage through hydraulic pressure or anything else they claim. Human tissues are very elastic and it typically takes velocities of about 2200 FPS or more before the pressure of the bullet exceeds the elastic limits of the tissues to rip and tear the tissue. Below 2200 FPS, the bullet does not have enough velocity to tear the tissues and it just kinda flows out of the way, then snaps back into place behind the bullet. All bullets at pistol velocities typically do is punch holes. Ballistics gel also does not replicate the elasticity of human tissue. All ballistics gel shows is the typical penetration and expansion of the bullet in human tissue. That's all and it is good at that, but the cavities and fissures in the gel do not show in human tissue. The exotic ammo relies on that tearing and stretching that shows in ballistics gel. Since that stretching and tearing does not show in human tissue at pistol velocities, I'm VERY leery about the performance in human tissue. I could well be wrong about its performance, but until there are real world shootings with that ammo, I'll continue to use good old, regular bullets. I fully expect that the exotic bullets will perform almost exactly like FMJ bullets in human tissue. Bottom line, I myself wouldn't use FMJ for SD unless I had no other choice. Pick one of the good performing loads (Speer Gold Dot at a minimum, preferably something using the Hornady XTP bullet, at least until we have some info about the real world performance of the exotics), practice a lot with the gun until you can reliably place your shots under pressure and you should be able to do OK with a .380. Bub75 |
|
Quoted:
Are you aware of a similar series using ballistics gel? XTP has always seemed to be the one with the best balance of penetration, expansion, and reliability if one respects the FBI standards. |
|
Quoted:
.380 is a funny round in terms of self defense. Typically, you can have either penetration or expansion but usually not both. The small round usually just doesn't have the energy to give both. I have become somewhat of a junkie on the subject of ballistics gel testing. I have watched more online gel tests than I care to admit over the past couple of years, so I like to think that I know at least a little something about the subject. Having said all that, like I said above, .380 is a tossup. FMJ typically overpenetrates, sometimes massively, on the order of 24+" of gel massively. A lot of typical hollow points underpenetrate, again sometimes massively, because they expand very aggressively and don't have enough energy to penetrate adequately. Federal HST, for as good as it is in larger calibers, only does about 8" in organic ballistics gel because it expands massively but can't penetrate. The FBI (say what you want about the FBI, they seem to be almost the only organization that takes wounding and testing seriously) has said that SD bullets should penetrate at least 12", not over 18" and expand at least 1.5x its original diameter through a variety of barriers. The only real tests that equate to SD are the bare gel and heavy clothing tests. These tests seem to equate pretty well with real world SD bullet performance. Speer Gold Dot in .380 consistently does 10" in bare gel and a little more in clothes gel and seems to open up very consistently. Good performance out of a .380, even if it does underpenetrate a little. The various loads using the Hornady XTP bullet seem to perform very well. They don't expand very much (they typically seem to expand to about .42-.43") but they consistently penetrate well enough to meet the FBI specs. Like I said, .380 does not have enough energy to both expand well and penetrate well so the XTP bullet is a very good option. Myself, I don't buy into the cult of the exotic bullet, like the various Extreme Penetrator or Extreme Defender bullets. Based on everything I have seen ( including a couple of classes for my LE job), pistol bullets do not have enough velocity to cause damage through hydraulic pressure or anything else they claim. Human tissues are very elastic and it typically takes velocities of about 2200 FPS or more before the pressure of the bullet exceeds the elastic limits of the tissues to rip and tear the tissue. Below 2200 FPS, the bullet does not have enough velocity to tear the tissues and it just kinda flows out of the way, then snaps back into place behind the bullet. All bullets at pistol velocities typically do is punch holes. Ballistics gel also does not replicate the elasticity of human tissue. All ballistics gel shows is the typical penetration and expansion of the bullet in human tissue. That's all and it is good at that, but the cavities and fissures in the gel do not show in human tissue. The exotic ammo relies on that tearing and stretching that shows in ballistics gel. Since that stretching and tearing does not show in human tissue at pistol velocities, I'm VERY leery about the performance in human tissue. I could well be wrong about its performance, but until there are real world shootings with that ammo, I'll continue to use good old, regular bullets. I fully expect that the exotic bullets will perform almost exactly like FMJ bullets in human tissue. Bottom line, I myself wouldn't use FMJ for SD unless I had no other choice. Pick one of the good performing loads (Speer Gold Dot at a minimum, preferably something using the Hornady XTP bullet, at least until we have some info about the real world performance of the exotics), practice a lot with the gun until you can reliably place your shots under pressure and you should be able to do OK with a .380. Bub75 What this guy said... all of it... exactly. |
|
Back in the 80's I carried a Walther PPK/s then a PPK with 380 85 grain Silvertip. When the 3913 became available I carried 9 MM. My Department issued S&W 9's then switched in 2000 to Glock 40 caliber.
When the Glock 42 came on the market I bought one of the first available. I carry Hornady 90 grain XTP Hornady American Shooter. When the Glock 43 was released I bought a 43 and carry it or the 42. I like them both and put more faith in shot placement and tactics than a particular bullet. I agree with bub75 and have studied ballistics and shooting for 40+ years. I can carry any gun or caliber now and still carry a 9 MM or 380. I have 40's and 45's but I like my Glock 19, 43 and 42 and I carry either of them depending on situation. |
|
Use XTPs loaded to 1025fps.
Underwoods +p 380 shoots the same velocity out of a G42 https://underwoodammo.com/shop/380-acp-p-90-grain-xtp-jacketed-hollow-point/ |
|
Look at Lehigh Defense, extreme defense and extreme penetrator. They have some exceptional ammo.
This is what I carry and have no worries about performance. I have shot enough of this ammo to be comfortable carrying it for self defense. I also run this in 9mm for my G43 and G34. |
| Fiocchi XTP or Federal Hydra-Shok. Both did very well in "Shooting The Bull's" extensive 380 ballistics gel tests. The "Precision One XTP" was the top performer, but I could never find it in stock. Underwood has a good +P XTP load, but I use this ONLY in the G42. A little too much for the other pocket 380's IMO. |