Posted: 2/25/2016 2:23:38 PM EDT
| Should I buy a Glock mos or should I just buy a Glock and send my slide to Atei? |
| I prefer milled. The MOS system still sits too high IMO, and when you have the slide milled, they generally mill it specifically to that optic so that the fit is very tight and the body of the sight takes the recoil instead of the screws, leading to a more reliable install |
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MOS if fine for competition, but if you want a defensive gun that can take a beating, you'll definitely want it milled. Im not trying to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? Do you own a MOS that you've had a bad experience with or personally seen one fail? Again just another question I'm asking to find out if I wasted my money in the 19 MOS I just bought and mounted an RMR to. I went the MOS route OP and plan on taking it out and running it pretty good this weekend to see if most of the negative feedback on it are true. |
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Im not tryung to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? Quoted:
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MOS if fine for competition, but if you want a defensive gun that can take a beating, you'll definitely want it milled. Im not tryung to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? I agree with this. I was looking into building a Carry Optics gun, and it will have a shit load of rounds through it if I do it... certainly more than any actual carry gun. |
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Im not trying to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? Do you own a MOS that you've had a bad experience with or personally seen one fail? Again just another question I'm asking to find out if I wasted my money in the 19 MOS I just bought and mounted an RMR to. I went the MOS route OP and plan on taking it out and running it pretty good this weekend to see if most of the negative feedback on it are true. Quoted:
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MOS if fine for competition, but if you want a defensive gun that can take a beating, you'll definitely want it milled. Im not trying to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? Do you own a MOS that you've had a bad experience with or personally seen one fail? Again just another question I'm asking to find out if I wasted my money in the 19 MOS I just bought and mounted an RMR to. I went the MOS route OP and plan on taking it out and running it pretty good this weekend to see if most of the negative feedback on it are true. I should've been more specific. When I say "take a beating" I'm not really referring to total round count, I'm referring to physical trauma. Milled slides are cut to specific RMRs (if they're done right) so you can literally slam the sight on holsters, belts, or really any solid object to rack the gun. The pressure is distributed on the edges of the sight whereas the MOS mount puts more of the force on the screws. There's just a huge difference in the fit. 
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| To be honest im not sold on durability of a slide mounted optic regardless of mos or milled. At a local level the guy who runs idpa & uspsa shoots is sponsored by trijicon and has had atleast 5 break on his gun. None have lasted more than 6k rounds. Trijicon has replaced all for him and actually flown him out to their hq. If you actually shoot your guns a lot im not seeing the benefit in something that is disposable in 7-12 months. Plus the actual cost if your not sponsored. |
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I should've been more specific. When I say "take a beating" I'm not really referring to total round count, I'm referring to physical trauma. Milled slides are cut to specific RMRs (if they're done right) so you can literally slam the sight on holsters, belts, or really any solid object to rack the gun. The pressure is distributed on the edges of the sight whereas the MOS mount puts more of the force on the screws. There's just a huge difference in the fit. http://cdn.net.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/01/outdoorhub-news-glock-shot-show-2016-2016-01-18_14-02-48-800x600.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8022349628_4096bcc10f_c.jpg Quoted:
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MOS if fine for competition, but if you want a defensive gun that can take a beating, you'll definitely want it milled. Im not trying to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? Do you own a MOS that you've had a bad experience with or personally seen one fail? Again just another question I'm asking to find out if I wasted my money in the 19 MOS I just bought and mounted an RMR to. I went the MOS route OP and plan on taking it out and running it pretty good this weekend to see if most of the negative feedback on it are true. I should've been more specific. When I say "take a beating" I'm not really referring to total round count, I'm referring to physical trauma. Milled slides are cut to specific RMRs (if they're done right) so you can literally slam the sight on holsters, belts, or really any solid object to rack the gun. The pressure is distributed on the edges of the sight whereas the MOS mount puts more of the force on the screws. There's just a huge difference in the fit. http://cdn.net.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/01/outdoorhub-news-glock-shot-show-2016-2016-01-18_14-02-48-800x600.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8022349628_4096bcc10f_c.jpg Once the screws come loose the sight will move so how close the mill is means nothing. Do you know the break point rating of those screws? They are doing all the work. The tightest mill job still has a gap and once the edge of the RMR is touching the mill then you have either broke or bent the screws. And are screwed either way. I do like milled because it sits lower but you are pretty much stuck with that RMR. "Fitting the RMR to the slide" is sales pitch BS and they do it that way so they don't screw up and mill it for the wrong RMR and/or to avoid arguments with a customer who didn't know what sight they bought. IMO |
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Once the screws come loose the sight will move so how close the mill is means nothing. Do you know the break point rating of those screws? They are doing all the work. The tightest mill job still has a gap and once the edge of the RMR is touching the mill then you have either broke or bent the screws. And are screwed either way. I do like milled because it sits lower but you are pretty much stuck with that RMR. "Fitting the RMR to the slide" is sales pitch BS and they do it that way so they don't screw up and mill it for the wrong RMR and/or to avoid arguments with a customer who didn't know what sight they bought. IMO Quoted:
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MOS if fine for competition, but if you want a defensive gun that can take a beating, you'll definitely want it milled. Im not trying to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? Do you own a MOS that you've had a bad experience with or personally seen one fail? Again just another question I'm asking to find out if I wasted my money in the 19 MOS I just bought and mounted an RMR to. I went the MOS route OP and plan on taking it out and running it pretty good this weekend to see if most of the negative feedback on it are true. I should've been more specific. When I say "take a beating" I'm not really referring to total round count, I'm referring to physical trauma. Milled slides are cut to specific RMRs (if they're done right) so you can literally slam the sight on holsters, belts, or really any solid object to rack the gun. The pressure is distributed on the edges of the sight whereas the MOS mount puts more of the force on the screws. There's just a huge difference in the fit. http://cdn.net.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/01/outdoorhub-news-glock-shot-show-2016-2016-01-18_14-02-48-800x600.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8022349628_4096bcc10f_c.jpg Once the screws come loose the sight will move so how close the mill is means nothing. Do you know the break point rating of those screws? They are doing all the work. The tightest mill job still has a gap and once the edge of the RMR is touching the mill then you have either broke or bent the screws. And are screwed either way. I do like milled because it sits lower but you are pretty much stuck with that RMR. "Fitting the RMR to the slide" is sales pitch BS and they do it that way so they don't screw up and mill it for the wrong RMR and/or to avoid arguments with a customer who didn't know what sight they bought. IMO You're letting the wrong people mill your slide(s) then. When we mill slides, the optic literally snaps into place it fits so tight. There is virtually no stress on the screws other than holding the optic down. As for your "sales pitch" spew. It isn't BS. If you knew how much these optics varied in tolerance from one to the next, you'd understand why quality shops (us for example) require the optic to be sent with the slide. You can't possibly mill a one size fits all pocket with how much these optics vary. |
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"Fitting the RMR to the slide" is sales pitch BS and they do it that way so they don't screw up and mill it for the wrong RMR and/or to avoid arguments with a customer who didn't know what sight they bought. IMO Quoted:
"Fitting the RMR to the slide" is sales pitch BS and they do it that way so they don't screw up and mill it for the wrong RMR and/or to avoid arguments with a customer who didn't know what sight they bought. IMO This could not be further from the truth. My RMRed M&P was cut for an RM01. Out of curiosity, I dropped my RM08 on it and there was a noticeable difference in how loose the sight was. Plus, I've been in the shop and watched the process. Every sight is measured individually. Quoted:
To be honest im not sold on durability of a slide mounted optic regardless of mos or milled. At a local level the guy who runs idpa & uspsa shoots is sponsored by trijicon and has had atleast 5 break on his gun. None have lasted more than 6k rounds. Trijicon has replaced all for him and actually flown him out to their hq. If you actually shoot your guns a lot im not seeing the benefit in something that is disposable in 7-12 months. Plus the actual cost if your not sponsored. I actually agree with this completely. I used to have a G17 and an M&P cut for RMRs and both sights had reliability issues. I'm back to HDs on both of my handguns. |
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Quoted: You're letting the wrong people mill your slide(s) then. When we mill slides, the optic literally snaps into place it fits so tight. There is virtually no stress on the screws other than holding the optic down.
As for your "sales pitch" spew. It isn't BS. If you knew how much these optics varied in tolerance from one to the next, you'd understand why quality shops (us for example) require the optic to be sent with the slide. You can't possibly mill a one size fits all pocket with how much these optics vary. So if your RDS breaks, you have to have the slide remachined to fit the replacement optic that is the same model from the same company? 
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I have an older 1911 slide, with a custom mill for a Jpoint footprint. I have a newer Glock 41, with the MOS, RMR 06. The 1911 has had thousands of 45acp's run through it, and many hundreds of 45 Super and Rowland. No problems at all. The 41 has around 800-1000 acp's, and a hundred or so Supers. Only real problem with the MOS so far has been a blinking RMR, that a little RTV cement under the battery has seemed to have cured.
One of the points that seems to be missing here is that the MOS system and all other mount systems should be relying on the pegs that are on the slide or MOS plate to help deal with horizontal forces on the optic. My Jpoint mill is very snug on the mount, only because it has 4 mounting pegs, and the sight does "snap" into place. I would have to guess that a custom fit RDS that actually bears on the front and back of the sight body would be a better system, but if the tolerances are indeed that different between the same makes of a single sight, then you would have a custom fit, to only that sight. The MOS would certainly provide for installing different brands, as well as account for variances within one brand. I have no Idea how a custom installer would account for an owner needing to install a different sight of the same brand. With that, I do wish my RMR fitment to the two plate pegs was a little better. Heck, I wish the sight and plate were set up for 4 pegs, as is my JPoint. I suspect that with the fitment of my MOS pegs, that the sight is probably using the screws for some of the force bearing. Besides the number of rounds, and the higher pressure rounds, I do rack my slide by my RMR. I have not done any table top or boot heel racks, but will try some, at some point. And I had no issues getting suppressor sights to co-witness with my RMR. I would only caution someone who is trying to make this decision to be very skeptical of many of the screw fail threads, links and videos that abound on the web. Many of these are by folks who did not understand that Glock was not providing optic to plate screws. Not to be harsh, but if these folks would have actually taken the time to look at the fitment of the sight to the plate, with whatever screw they were using, it should have been obvious that you only have a few threads of engagement on the plate, and any screw better fit all the way to the bottom of the plate. And not past the bottom, as some have even tried. I like the MOS system so far, but will certainly report if I have any problems. I don't get too wedded to gear, just because I spent money on it. Craig |
| Sounds like a possible solution would be a custom MOS plate. Still have a disadvantage in that the RDS sits higher, but maintains standardization w/ factory slides. If you want to go whole hog, have slide milled further back & lower for a factory MOS plate, and then use a custom MOS plate, & put the sights in front. |
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You're letting the wrong people mill your slide(s) then. When we mill slides, the optic literally snaps into place it fits so tight. There is virtually no stress on the screws other than holding the optic down. As for your "sales pitch" spew. It isn't BS. If you knew how much these optics varied in tolerance from one to the next, you'd understand why quality shops (us for example) require the optic to be sent with the slide. You can't possibly mill a one size fits all pocket with how much these optics vary. Quoted:
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MOS if fine for competition, but if you want a defensive gun that can take a beating, you'll definitely want it milled. Im not trying to start a shitting contest or rile someone up but aren't most competition guns ran hard and withstand a pretty good beating? Just a question? Do you own a MOS that you've had a bad experience with or personally seen one fail? Again just another question I'm asking to find out if I wasted my money in the 19 MOS I just bought and mounted an RMR to. I went the MOS route OP and plan on taking it out and running it pretty good this weekend to see if most of the negative feedback on it are true. I should've been more specific. When I say "take a beating" I'm not really referring to total round count, I'm referring to physical trauma. Milled slides are cut to specific RMRs (if they're done right) so you can literally slam the sight on holsters, belts, or really any solid object to rack the gun. The pressure is distributed on the edges of the sight whereas the MOS mount puts more of the force on the screws. There's just a huge difference in the fit. http://cdn.net.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/01/outdoorhub-news-glock-shot-show-2016-2016-01-18_14-02-48-800x600.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8022349628_4096bcc10f_c.jpg Once the screws come loose the sight will move so how close the mill is means nothing. Do you know the break point rating of those screws? They are doing all the work. The tightest mill job still has a gap and once the edge of the RMR is touching the mill then you have either broke or bent the screws. And are screwed either way. I do like milled because it sits lower but you are pretty much stuck with that RMR. "Fitting the RMR to the slide" is sales pitch BS and they do it that way so they don't screw up and mill it for the wrong RMR and/or to avoid arguments with a customer who didn't know what sight they bought. IMO You're letting the wrong people mill your slide(s) then. When we mill slides, the optic literally snaps into place it fits so tight. There is virtually no stress on the screws other than holding the optic down. As for your "sales pitch" spew. It isn't BS. If you knew how much these optics varied in tolerance from one to the next, you'd understand why quality shops (us for example) require the optic to be sent with the slide. You can't possibly mill a one size fits all pocket with how much these optics vary. Atei did my slide, but hey if you want to bad mouth them that is your business. 
I know you are going to say you didn't, but since you told me my slide, that you never seen was done by the wrong people.......yes you did. Like I sad, the screws do all the work and once they are loose you are screwed lol Without the screws the greatest mill job will not hold the RMR. You want to promote what you do and that is fine and I'm sure atei would probably disagree with me too but I going to have my opinion based on well over a hundred years of the nut and bolt concept being used on this earth lol. |
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Atei did my slide, but hey if you want to bad mouth them that is your business.
I know you are going to say you didn't, but since you told me my slide, that you never seen was done by the wrong people.......yes you did. Like I sad, the screws do all the work and once they are loose you are screwed lol Without the screws the greatest mill job will not hold the RMR. Really? The slides I had done by ATEi were done so well that I could shake them upside-down without the screws and the RMRs wouldn't budge. |
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Milled. I was fiddling with an MOS at the shop installing an RMR for a customer today. I was less than impressed. But I already knew that was the case. Doug at ATEi gets all my work and we send business to him as well. What was it that you were unimpressed by if you could please elaborate? |
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Really? The slides I had done by ATEi were done so well that I could shake them upside-down without the screws and the RMRs wouldn't budge. Quoted:
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Atei did my slide, but hey if you want to bad mouth them that is your business.
I know you are going to say you didn't, but since you told me my slide, that you never seen was done by the wrong people.......yes you did. Like I sad, the screws do all the work and once they are loose you are screwed lol Without the screws the greatest mill job will not hold the RMR. Really? The slides I had done by ATEi were done so well that I could shake them upside-down without the screws and the RMRs wouldn't budge. Then run yours without the screws if you want. |
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Meh. I prefer the ALG 6 second mount. Optics don't like to be on slides. I have had both setups on Glocks and 1911s. Will never do a slide mount again. Enjoy your obnoxiously huge gun lol. My vote is for milled, there are too many anecdotes of MOS screws breaking under casual use. |
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Then run yours without the screws if you want. Quoted:
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Atei did my slide, but hey if you want to bad mouth them that is your business.
I know you are going to say you didn't, but since you told me my slide, that you never seen was done by the wrong people.......yes you did. Like I sad, the screws do all the work and once they are loose you are screwed lol Without the screws the greatest mill job will not hold the RMR. Really? The slides I had done by ATEi were done so well that I could shake them upside-down without the screws and the RMRs wouldn't budge. Then run yours without the screws if you want. LOL 
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Enjoy your obnoxiously huge gun lol. My vote is for milled, there are too many anecdotes of MOS screws breaking under casual use. Quoted:
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Meh. I prefer the ALG 6 second mount. Optics don't like to be on slides. I have had both setups on Glocks and 1911s. Will never do a slide mount again. Enjoy your obnoxiously huge gun lol. My vote is for milled, there are too many anecdotes of MOS screws breaking under casual use. Any links to these anecdotes? And I don't mean the guys who ran the incorrect screws. I mean real incidents using the correct screws and a proper install. |
| My 19 is milled, and was done by Agency. When I put my RMR on it was a light press fit, so I could shake the gun and turn it upside down or whatever and the optic didn't move. Not trying to argue whether the stress is on the slide or the screws, just stating that even though they didn't have my exact optic to mill to, the fit was still excellent. |
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My 19 is milled, and was done by Agency. When I put my RMR on it was a light press fit, so I could shake the gun and turn it upside down or whatever and the optic didn't move. Not trying to argue whether the stress is on the slide or the screws, just stating that even though they didn't have my exact optic to mill to, the fit was still excellent. If there is an interference fit between the optic and the slide, the screws are only retaining the optic in directions unaffected or minimally affected by recoil... Off the top of the weapon and potentially laterally depending on the footprint of the optic. Regardless, it will be significantly stronger than just screws. Anecdotes aside, the extra strength may be unnecessary though. I'm stoked for custom MOS plates that do both, personally. I know its cheaper for Glock to laser cut some sheet steel but someone could probably rip these in a mill and sell them. profitably, for $50. Also a service to make the MOS cuts in non MOS weapons!.. |
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Quoted: If there is an interference fit between the optic and the slide, the screws are only retaining the optic in directions unaffected or minimally affected by recoil... Off the top of the weapon and potentially laterally depending on the footprint of the optic. Regardless, it will be significantly stronger than just screws. Anecdotes aside, the extra strength may be unnecessary though.
I'm stoked for custom MOS plates that do both, personally. I know its cheaper for Glock to laser cut some sheet steel but someone could probably rip these in a mill and sell them. profitably, for $50. Also a service to make the MOS cuts in non MOS weapons!.. If a particular house can mill a slide for a RDS, they can mill a slide for MOS. And they should be able to mill a custom MOS plate to fit MOS cuts, and to fit a particular optic. |
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If a particular house can mill a slide for a RDS, they can mill a slide for MOS. And they should be able to mill a custom MOS plate to fit MOS cuts, and to fit a particular optic. Quoted:
Quoted: If there is an interference fit between the optic and the slide, the screws are only retaining the optic in directions unaffected or minimally affected by recoil... Off the top of the weapon and potentially laterally depending on the footprint of the optic. Regardless, it will be significantly stronger than just screws. Anecdotes aside, the extra strength may be unnecessary though.
I'm stoked for custom MOS plates that do both, personally. I know its cheaper for Glock to laser cut some sheet steel but someone could probably rip these in a mill and sell them. profitably, for $50. Also a service to make the MOS cuts in non MOS weapons!.. If a particular house can mill a slide for a RDS, they can mill a slide for MOS. And they should be able to mill a custom MOS plate to fit MOS cuts, and to fit a particular optic. Right?! Come on someone, be the first! |
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I have not taken measurements to check feasibility, but if someone were to start cutting things to fit the MOS slide cut, a low profile picitinney rail type adapter might not be a bad thought. While all of the various red dots may have unique footprints, the one thing that most share is some type of pic. adapter to mount on rifles. These would end up being insanely high, with the plate and particular pic. sight base, but it would open the gun up to a lot of possibilities. Heck, I would pick one up just to have it.
Craig |
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Glocks MOS looks so cheap with the huge gap between the optics and slide. The M&P's CORE is much better executes. Theeir adpter plates actually fill in the gap and makes it look like the alide was milled for it.
IMO Unity Tacticals ATOM mount is the way to go for an interchangeable optics adapter for Glocks. |