Posted: 7/29/2014 12:37:33 PM EDT
| Is the G17 rated for 9MM +P+, got a box of Magtech when I bought my Ruger Blackhawk .357 with a 9mm cylinder from the guy I sold it to several years ago. |
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Not rated for +P+ - meaning it's not meant to safely fire it as its only or primary ammunition.
The 9mm Glocks are good to go with 9mm NATO, which is 36,500 PSI vs 36,000 to 38,500 for SAAMI 9x19 +P loads, so they're already sorta-kinda rated for at least versions of +P loads. 9mm +P+ can go to 42,000 PSI, which is significantly more, but your Glock should be OK with one box. |
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Austrian Ministry of Defence formulated a list of 17 criteria for the new generation service pistol READ #14
The G17 passed |
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I pretty well think that the G17 is plenty tough to eat a diet of +P+ if you want to feed it. They are pretty well documented, and tested guns. I have no scientific basis for my opinion, other than what I think.
In other words, there isn't a real definitive answer out there, that I know of at least. Pressure signs will tell, but I have shot some of the Federal 9BPLE, and never seen any. Edit: Somewhere in the ballpark of 3 -400 rounds. |
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OP I have fired the ammo you described often (not as regular diet ammo but I have gone thru several boxes of it) over the course of 15 years with no trouble of any kind.
I don't even carry plus P ammo (I'm a standard pressure 147gr speer gold dot guy), but this magtech plus P plus stuff was free 
Take it for what it's worth. HTR. |
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Quoted:
The G17 is built on the same frame/slide the 40 S&W Glock 23. You can fire the hottest 9mm made with that gun and youll be fine. G17 was the original design The G17 was up calibered to .40 and subsequently has had life span issues because of it and is the reason the Gen 4 exists. Some companies down caliber their guns to 9mm and that solves those issues. Just because a gun comes in .40 doesn't mean it's well designed for that caliber. To add to that, +P+ doesn't have a pressure standard, it just means more plus than +P. |
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Quoted:
The G17 was up calibered to .40 and subsequently has had life span issues because of it and is the reason the Gen 4 exists. Some companies down caliber their guns to 9mm and that solves those issues. Just because a gun comes in .40 doesn't mean it's well designed for that caliber. To add to that, +P+ doesn't have a pressure standard, it just means more plus than +P. Quoted:
Quoted:
The G17 is built on the same frame/slide the 40 S&W Glock 23. You can fire the hottest 9mm made with that gun and youll be fine. G17 was the original design The G17 was up calibered to .40 and subsequently has had life span issues because of it and is the reason the Gen 4 exists. Some companies down caliber their guns to 9mm and that solves those issues. Just because a gun comes in .40 doesn't mean it's well designed for that caliber. To add to that, +P+ doesn't have a pressure standard, it just means more plus than +P. I am not aware of the lifespan issues of the 22/23. In fact, I know a cop that has 30,000+ out of a 22. I'd vote that as being pretty solid. |
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Take this for what it is worth, because I've never found it in any of the Glock manuals. At one of my armorer recertification classes, this question was asked. The instructor said that the 9mm Glocks would be perfectly fine with +P+ and even SMG ammo, as long as it was factory ammo. The instructor said that, as long as it was factory ammo, Glock would take care of any issues to the original purchaser. They have an old, 1st Gen G17 at the corporate HQ in Austria that has over 1,000,000 (yes, over 1 MILLION) documented round through it and is still on the original frame, barrel and slide. Especially since they redesigned the guns to beef them up for .40, I would have no problem running +P+ through a 9mm Glock. Just make sure that, if you do run a bunch of +P+ through it, that you religiously change the recoil springs- 3000 rds for single recoil springs and 5000 for dual recoil springs per Glock's latest recommendations.
Bub75 |
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Quoted:
Take this for what it is worth, because I've never found it in any of the Glock manuals. At one of my armorer recertification classes, this question was asked. The instructor said that the 9mm Glocks would be perfectly fine with +P+ and even SMG ammo, as long as it was factory ammo. The instructor said that, as long as it was factory ammo, Glock would take care of any issues to the original purchaser. They have an old, 1st Gen G17 at the corporate HQ in Austria that has over 1,000,000 (yes, over 1 MILLION) documented round through it and is still on the original frame, barrel and slide. Especially since they redesigned the guns to beef them up for .40, I would have no problem running +P+ through a 9mm Glock. Just make sure that, if you do run a bunch of +P+ through it, that you religiously change the recoil springs- 3000 rds for single recoil springs and 5000 for dual recoil springs per Glock's latest recommendations. Bub75 UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. |
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Quoted:
UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. Quoted:
Quoted:
Take this for what it is worth, because I've never found it in any of the Glock manuals. At one of my armorer recertification classes, this question was asked. The instructor said that the 9mm Glocks would be perfectly fine with +P+ and even SMG ammo, as long as it was factory ammo. The instructor said that, as long as it was factory ammo, Glock would take care of any issues to the original purchaser. They have an old, 1st Gen G17 at the corporate HQ in Austria that has over 1,000,000 (yes, over 1 MILLION) documented round through it and is still on the original frame, barrel and slide. Especially since they redesigned the guns to beef them up for .40, I would have no problem running +P+ through a 9mm Glock. Just make sure that, if you do run a bunch of +P+ through it, that you religiously change the recoil springs- 3000 rds for single recoil springs and 5000 for dual recoil springs per Glock's latest recommendations. Bub75 UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. I'm curious why you feel Glock should have warrantied the barrel on a 14 year old pistol. I know you said it had a low round count but it is still over a decade old. |
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Quoted:
UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. Quoted:
Quoted:
Take this for what it is worth, because I've never found it in any of the Glock manuals. At one of my armorer recertification classes, this question was asked. The instructor said that the 9mm Glocks would be perfectly fine with +P+ and even SMG ammo, as long as it was factory ammo. The instructor said that, as long as it was factory ammo, Glock would take care of any issues to the original purchaser. They have an old, 1st Gen G17 at the corporate HQ in Austria that has over 1,000,000 (yes, over 1 MILLION) documented round through it and is still on the original frame, barrel and slide. Especially since they redesigned the guns to beef them up for .40, I would have no problem running +P+ through a 9mm Glock. Just make sure that, if you do run a bunch of +P+ through it, that you religiously change the recoil springs- 3000 rds for single recoil springs and 5000 for dual recoil springs per Glock's latest recommendations. Bub75 UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. Glocks CS was never really that great, unless you are a large PD with thousands of guns or are some other Govt entity. I started out my LE career with a Sig P226 and quickly switched to a G21 when they first came out. It was old enough that it had to go back to Glock to get the slide milled as part of the "upgrade" when the older 9mm guns got the upgrade to replace the black parts with the nickle parts. Glock refused to pay shipping and got crappy with me when I told them I wouldn't send it back. They told me that, if I didn't send it back, the warranty was null and void and they would send a letter to my Dept that I had refused to get the upgrade. I was young and didn't know any better, so I sent it in. This was not long after UPS and FedEx started requiring overnight shipping, so it was $75.00 to ship it. A few years later, I had one of the infamous kaBooms! in a fairly early 2nd Gen G23. Again, Glock refused to pay shipping or send parts, even though I was an armorer. Same song and dance, no warranty coverage unless I sent it in for inspection and a letter would go out that I had refused to send it in. The Dept refused to pay for it, so I had to pay for it. Another $75.00. Last year, I bought a 3rd Gen G19 and had the brass to face issues. When I called Glock, again they wanted me to send it in at my cost for them to check. When I told them I was an armorer and they could send the new ejector, the CS rep initially balked, then relented and agreed to send me one. By contrast, I have had problems with other manufacturer's guns and, without exception, as long as it was a manufacturing defect, and usually even if it wasn't, the manufacturer paid shipping and went above and beyond to make sure I was happy. I got enough of a rash of shit from Sig Sauer one time,including accusing me of messing with "their" gun that I had bought and calling me a liar, that I refuse to buy another, but every other manufacturer has gone above and beyond. Glocks used to work well enough that I put up with their crap, but I think I'm done with them now because of poor CS and all the issues with recent guns. Sucks, but there it is. Bub75 |
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Quoted:
I'm curious why you feel Glock should have warrantied the barrel on a 14 year old pistol. I know you said it had a low round count but it is still over a decade old. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Take this for what it is worth, because I've never found it in any of the Glock manuals. At one of my armorer recertification classes, this question was asked. The instructor said that the 9mm Glocks would be perfectly fine with +P+ and even SMG ammo, as long as it was factory ammo. The instructor said that, as long as it was factory ammo, Glock would take care of any issues to the original purchaser. They have an old, 1st Gen G17 at the corporate HQ in Austria that has over 1,000,000 (yes, over 1 MILLION) documented round through it and is still on the original frame, barrel and slide. Especially since they redesigned the guns to beef them up for .40, I would have no problem running +P+ through a 9mm Glock. Just make sure that, if you do run a bunch of +P+ through it, that you religiously change the recoil springs- 3000 rds for single recoil springs and 5000 for dual recoil springs per Glock's latest recommendations. Bub75 UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. I'm curious why you feel Glock should have warrantied the barrel on a 14 year old pistol. I know you said it had a low round count but it is still over a decade old. They insisted that reloaded ammunition was used in it, (there wasn't) and at some point it had a catastrophic malfunction where it failed to cycle but it never failed to fire/feed according to the sole owner. This is a law 2000/ early 2001 weapon that was when they (glock) was having the rails ripping out of the frames. In summation, I think it's the result of poor metallurgy or the surface hardening process that resulted in the uneven chamber wear that could have injured the operator. I think if new platforms like the sig 320 takes off or like the S&W MP series improves (great CS), Gaston' s heirs won't have much to fight over. |
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They insisted that reloaded ammunition was used in it, (there wasn't) and at some point it had a catastrophic malfunction where it failed to cycle but it never failed to fire/feed according to the sole owner. This is a law 2000/ early 2001 weapon that was when they (glock) was having the rails ripping out of the frames. In summation, I think it's the result of poor metallurgy or the surface hardening process that resulted in the uneven chamber wear that could have injured the operator. I think if new platforms like the sig 320 takes off or like the S&W MP series improves (great CS), Gaston' s heirs won't have much to fight over. Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm curious why you feel Glock should have warrantied the barrel on a 14 year old pistol. I know you said it had a low round count but it is still over a decade old. They insisted that reloaded ammunition was used in it, (there wasn't) and at some point it had a catastrophic malfunction where it failed to cycle but it never failed to fire/feed according to the sole owner. This is a law 2000/ early 2001 weapon that was when they (glock) was having the rails ripping out of the frames. In summation, I think it's the result of poor metallurgy or the surface hardening process that resulted in the uneven chamber wear that could have injured the operator. I think if new platforms like the sig 320 takes off or like the S&W MP series improves (great CS), Gaston' s heirs won't have much to fight over. Gotcha. I personally see the M&P as Glock's biggest competitor, if they do get everything lined out things may indeed get interesting. |
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This same thing happened to my G26. I noticed some strange marks inside the chamber and sent the barrel to Glock. They told me that the barrel was damaged by "flame cutting" apparently caused by a case head seperation or some type of split case.
They refused to send back my barrel saying that it was unsafe and offered to sell me a new barrel for $125. I was upset and eventually, they contacted the ammo maker, who paid Glock, who then sent me a new barrel without charge. Glock CS did a good job in my opinion and I am happy. After all, it was the ammo not the gun. I see the same type of "flame cutting" marks inside the chamber of my ancient G23. It shoots fine with the damaged barrel, although I have since bought new barrels for it (OEM Glock, Jarvis and Barsto). Going back to the OP, I shoot +P+ in all my Glocks with no issue. The round that damaged my G26 was not +P+. Quoted:
UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. Quoted:
Quoted:
Take this for what it is worth, because I've never found it in any of the Glock manuals. At one of my armorer recertification classes, this question was asked. The instructor said that the 9mm Glocks would be perfectly fine with +P+ and even SMG ammo, as long as it was factory ammo. The instructor said that, as long as it was factory ammo, Glock would take care of any issues to the original purchaser. They have an old, 1st Gen G17 at the corporate HQ in Austria that has over 1,000,000 (yes, over 1 MILLION) documented round through it and is still on the original frame, barrel and slide. Especially since they redesigned the guns to beef them up for .40, I would have no problem running +P+ through a 9mm Glock. Just make sure that, if you do run a bunch of +P+ through it, that you religiously change the recoil springs- 3000 rds for single recoil springs and 5000 for dual recoil springs per Glock's latest recommendations. Bub75 UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A friend has a gen 3 G26 (9mm)that is about 14 years old that he bought new as a LEO back up weapon. This July, 2014 it had its annual inspection by his dept. armorers and there was excessive chamber wear observed by the owner. The part-time range officer dumbass told him to keep shooting it. My buddy showed it to me and it had excessive flame cutting to the extractor or right side of the chamber and a beveling of the central rib on the bottom of the slide. Otherwise everything was in excellent condition. Like most LEO BUG weapons it probably has had no more than 1500 rounds through it in 14 years. I had him take pictures and email them to glock. They said something was wrong and had him send it in on his dime. Upon receipt they insisted he was using reloads ( he was not). For the last 10 years,the duty round was federal BPLE ( 115 gr. +p+ jhp), current ammo is made by another manufacturer and is rated +P. Glock said they've only seen this type of wear on one other G26. They replaced the barrel (kept it for testing), remachined the slide and then charged him $125.00 for the barrel. They would have sent it back to him with the defective barrel and told him not to fire it as the case could rupture. To add insult to injury they swapped out his forged non-LCI extractor for a new crappy LCI MIM one. At least they didn't charge to ship it back. In summation, my buddy is out $175.00, still has a 14 year old gun. A new one is $398.00 + tax. I'll try and get the pics from him. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I was debating posting this but I think their customer service is not what it once was. Glock should have paid for the barrel and shipping both ways. We're trying to get his dept. To pay for the repairs as he was issued that ammo. |
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You can't make major in limited with 9mm. It's against the rules. Quoted:
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Outlaw, What ammo are you using to make "major" ? I'm Planning to get a G34 soon and get back into USPSA. You can't make major in limited with 9mm. It's against the rules. Good to know and thanks. I was shooting single stack .45 ACP last time I was active in USPSA. Gonna start up again with the 9mm G34 in Limited. It will be a lot of fun. |
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Quoted: For the most part, my 9mm Glocks have steady diet of Winchester 9mm 127 gr +P+. It is one of the if not THE hottest +P+ load available. It was common for vest manufacturers to state their vest would defeat this load. I got some British MOD L7A1 9mm and that stuff is downright nasty. Made for sub-guns in adverse (subzero) conditions. Headstamp  |