[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How Much Ammo? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/23/2006 6:13:01 PM EDT
| Gents: Currently carry my Glock22...with two mags...carry the extra mag is a clumsy, sort of, with denim jacket pocket liner doing duty as mag holder...to make it worse, as a lefty, finding a good holster is really harder..enuff whining...how many mags do you carry? v/r W |
| I just cary the mag in the gun. If I need more than 10 rounds in a gunfight it will be so bad that 10 more will be of no help anyway. One could carry a back up gun, a folding rifle, and 50 mags. But where does one stop and when is it "enough"? I have faith in my my trainging and confidence in my skills. So for me, 10 in the gun is enough. |
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I carry 2 reloads for each weapon i carry. The mag is the weak link in an auto loader. a good number of malfunctions can be traced back to mag problems. I carry 2 spares because if one mag fails i still have a reload. Better to have and not need than to need and not have. PLAN ON MURPHY SHOWING UP |
I gotta disagree. Two words: multiple attackers. There was a guy on glocktalk who had four thugs try to kidnap him and his girlfriend--two from the front and two from the rear. He was able to put two down with three shots each, and luckily, the other two ran off. There were also more thugs driving the van that two of them came out of. If the others had chosen to fight instead of run then 4 attackers x 3 rounds each = 12 rounds minimum. That's not including the other thugs in the van that he didn't see. You're probably thinking "I wouldn't need three rounds each, only two or less." Well, he had religiously practices failure drills and noticed that when he shot each of them twice to the body, there was no reaction until he put another one in the head. Without three shots each, they could have shot him (yes, they were armed) before bleading out. I think I still have the text of the thread saved somewhere on my harddrive if anyone's interested. |
I have it as well. The shooters own sentiment is that he would have given nearly anything to have more ammo on hand than the 8+1 of .45 that he had. He was carrying another mag, but it was in a dayplanner that was not close by. Somewhere below this post, I started a thread about carrying spare mags. Enclosed is a newspaper article about a group of people beset by as many as twenty thugs at once. Good reason to have a spare mag or two, huh? I tend to carry either one or two spare mags, and about three or four more in the truck. |
This is my practice as well. I wear jeans 100% of the time and without gloves on, I can and do reliably withdraw my spare mag. I haven't tried it with gloves on yet. That may be a problem. |
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Total of 4 for the primary (1911)... ...why do I carry so many mags?...because after that, I start running out of room or comfort. I'm sure there's no one that's been in battle who had wished they had less ammo. I'd carry my AR and 870 if I could conceal them comfortably |
| All: Thanks this has been very thought provoking...keeping extra mags in vehicle is a very good idea, something I am not currently doing. Lots of good points here, overseas I kept four loaded mags for Glock all the time...and ya, to be honest, I would be way okay dragging around the AR with me too if I could. Will keep trying to find a good holster for the G-22....thanks again for your ideas. v/r WaltK |
| My CCW piece is most often a Kimber Stainless Ultra Carry. I use Wilson mags exclusively in all my 1911's. Usual loadout is 8 in the pistol (1 in chamber 7 in mag) and a minimum of two (2) spare 7 round mags for a total of 22 rounds available on my person. Spare mags are most often carried in left back pocket of my jeans. More ammo available for resupply in the truck. |
Oh, the holster is easy. Versa Max 2. Try Lightning Arms Sports, they stock some Milt Sparks stuff in left handed.... (btw, any mag holders you buy should be left too, unless truly ambi) bought one of mine there, another from Milt Sparks (long wait) and another from someone here on Arfcom. Good stuff! |
Dragonfly has the key. Anyone who thinks they are going to be able to successfully engage a large multiple of attackers and have the number of rounds make a difference is probably in some sort of fantasy. Reality dictates that you will solve the problem with the rounds in your gun or you won't solve it at all. Are there exceptions? Sure, but they are so few and far between that they are virtually irrelevant to the discussion. |
Put down the Maui Wowwie, dude! Extra mag(s) are not just about extra ammo. It's easy to tell which shooters have never had a decent combat pistol course. Even if you only burn 3 rounds, a tac reload is still probably appropriate. |
I wondered how long it would take before you came into this. 
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I think darm is a mugger by trade. He repeatedly advocates Smart Carry, empty chamber, and no reloads to give himself every possible advantage. 
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Can you give one good reason why carrying a spare mag is a BAD idea? Sure, odds are that you will never need it, but you'll probably never need your pistol either. Obviously, you still carry it, though. You carry it because, against the odds, you MIGHT one day need it. A spare mag is carried because, against the odds, it MIGHT be needed it one day too. Quit discouraging other people from carrying spare mags with your rationalizations that really stem from you just being to lazy to carry one. Again, provide one good reason why carrying a spare mag is a BAD idea. |
The idea behind carrying a spare mag for many CCWers is a backup if there is a magazine failure with the mag in the gun. If your one and only mag goes tits up, you are SOL. |
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You might at least try to present things accurately. I have never advocated any of those things. I have and still do point out that they can be a solution to some problems or issues for some people in some situations, a concept which nobody has ever been able to contradict with any validity. |
Why would I do that? I don't think carrying a spare is a bad idea. If you want to, fine. It won't make much difference in the overall scheme of things, but it won't be a bad thing. Of course, carrying a rabbit's foot with you won't be a bad thing either.
About the only thing I discourage is people making wild claims that have little or no basis in reality. I think everyone should decide what they want to carry and how they want to carry based on good, solid reasoning and accurate risk assessment instead of by watching a Rambo movie or some other work of fiction. Why that gets so many people all excited continues to be a source of amusement. As for your wild claim about the source of my alleged "rationalizations" perhaps you would care to share with us the source of such a claim, since AFAIK you have no idea what I carry or how. Or was that just another silly little story you made up and decided to toss out there?
Perhaps you would instead provide one single example of where I have said carrying a spare mag is a bad idea. Or is that another little lie you are trying to pass off as truth?? |
Well, when say that people who advocate carrying spare mag are living in fantasies, it infers that you are against the idea. Perhaps I read to much into the insult. Your rationalization is no secret; you just said that you don't need a spare mag because the risk of needing one is too low to justify carrying one. The point I'm trying to make is that I find it odd that someone carries a weapon even though they will probably never need it and doesn't apply the same logic to a spare mag. If you think that the benefit of carrying a spare doesn't justify the cost, then say so without insulting the board members who dissagree. Against a single attacker, I agree that one mag would most likely do the job, but with all of the gang activity in my city, the threat of multiple assailants is almost as likely. If I was ever in such a situation, I would hate for the confrentation to end with only 2 rounds left then have the thugs' gang buddies walk up from the other side of the street and hose me down because I don't have enough ammo left to make an escape. I couldn't think of many scenarios where I'd need to reload in the middle of a fight, I would sure like to tac reload when the fight's over so I can still defend myself if something else comes up. Anyway, I've stated my position and you've stated yours. We dissagree, but there's no reason to argue about it and crap all over WaltK's thread. |
Thanks |
The site is no longer cached by google, but I have the .htm file on my computer. IM me with your email address and I'll send it to you. ETA: It's worth the trouble; there's a lot of good info in that thread. |
It was reposted here recently, in the thread titled "Have you ever had to use your CCW?" -- the one in team, not this forum. |
Perhaps there is the problem. Having reviewed this thread, I find no post where I said any such thing. It might be better to discuss and argue about what was actually said instead of making things up.
Once again I find nowhere that I have said that, so I have trouble figuring out what your issue is.
First, you mightt want to suggest tha to your fellow board members. Second, if you feel thata suggesting that one should bse decisions on facts instead of fantasy is insulting, well, I'd suggest you might want to examine your own sense of values.
Fine. If that is a legitimate concern you should be able to tell us how many times something like that has occurred in your area in the last 3 years or so. If the concern is a factual one that should enter into your risk assessment. If instead it is a fantasy, it probably shouldn't get much value in the assessment.
It takes to to argue. A claim was made. I chose to suggest the claim was of little concern. Others, including you, apparently wish to argue about that. If my claim is wrong offer some solid facts to show that. But if you don't want to do that, don't complain about the fact that you are arguing. And certainly don't make up stuff thta was never said just so you can argue about it. |
There have been several instances reported in the local news over the last few years. Just this spring, a college student was held up by a group of thugs at a fast food restuarant only a few blocks from my apartment in a "safer area of town". Luckily, they were on foot and he had a bicycle, so he was able to escape, although they chased him for awhile. The city I live in has the highest per capita murders in the entire US. Sorry, I didn't save the newspaper articles or record the news programs thinking I would have to provide documented evidence on arfcom months or years later. The reason you won't find too many CCW articles, especially in your own area, is because such a small percentage of the population legally carries a weapon. They are usally stories that end in murder or the person beat half to death because they couldn't defend themselves. I also provided an example above that happened to a glocktalk member. He said himself that he was lucky the others chose not to attack because he didn't have enough ammo left to stop them. He now carries more ammo because being left with so little after the confrontation made him very uncomfortable. |
you were a lot nicer than i would have been.  bottom line: not carring extra ammo = bad idea carrying extra ammo = good idea whats it gonna kill you to carry around something the size of a corndog all day? |
Actually what the glocktalk story proved was that the member could have handled the situation with a 6-shot revolver and no reloads. But thanks anyway, as you also proved my point, which was that I never said those things that I was accused of, so thank you. There is a world of difference between "say that people who advocate carrying spare mag are living in fantasies" and "Anyone who thinks they are going to be able to successfully engage a large multiple of attackers and have the number of rounds make a difference is probably in some sort of fantasy." Those that don't understand the difference create much argument where none is warranted. One focuses on the issue of spare magazines, while my comment focuses on successful engagement of large numbers of assailants. Similarly, "you don't need a spare mag because the risk of needing one is too low to justify carrying one" is very different from "Reality dictates that you will solve the problem with the rounds in your gun or you won't solve it at all." One issue is about cost/benefit of spare mags, my comment is focused on the known dynamics of gunfights. Those that can understand the difference will be well-served, those who don't need to expand either their understanding of tactics or language.
If so, one should be able to provide some evidence. So far, I haven't seen anyone here present anything other than "might have" and "feelings". Heck, the examply you gave with the college student indicates that there was no need for a gun at all, much less any reloads.
But there is the difference. I don't just use CCW articles to develop my conclusions, I get to investigate actual shooting incidents and DGU incidents. Over the years I've gathered information on several thousand of them (LE and non-LE), so I can comment on them with some accuracy, I think. That is why I tend to try to make pretty factual statements, such as "Anyone who thinks they are going to be able to successfully engage a large multiple of attackers and have the number of rounds make a difference is probably in some sort of fantasy" and "Reality dictates that you will solve the problem with the rounds in your gun or you won't solve it at all." Those are facts as indicated by the data. If you disagree with the data provide some facts that indicate other conclusions, but "might" and "could" and "just in case" are not particularly impressive to me, especially when the are countered by reality. |
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From the first page of a google search: 3 attackers 4 attackers 6 attackers |
Perhaps I missed it, so could you point out where there was anything mentioned about using firearms in any of those stories? I don't think anyone is questioning the idea that attacks by multiple perps occur, the question is how important are large quantities of ammo in stopping such attacks, IIRC. |
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Every course I have ever attended and every instructor has advocated carrying at least one reload. This includes Glock, Smith&Wesson, Blackwater, and John Farnam. My experience has been that I have always been glad that I had more ammunition available, whether it was ever needed or not. In the one and hopefully only shooting I was involved in, 1 round was fired by me. It was a 12ga 00 buck. The situation ended right there. Was I glad there were 4 more rounds available and a Glock with 46 rounds as well. Yes I was. Did I give a damn about extra weight, or statistics, or cost/benefit analysis? No I did not. As an instructor, I teach and advocate carrying spare ammunition. Mainly for a potential malfunction, but also for the possibility of several attackers or a failure to stop situation. Ultimately it is your decision, choose wisely. And for the record; On duty I have a 12ga with 5 loaded and a 6 round sidesaddle. An AR with 40 rounds on the gun and 2 spare 30 round mags in the case. And a Glock .40 with 46 rounds on my belt. Theres a ammo can in the trunk with spare ammo for each. Off duty I have either my duty Glock and a spare mag, for a total of 31 rounds. Or I have my personal Glock 21 with a spare mag, for 27 rounds of .45 acp. My personal AR or 12ga is more than likely not far away. And thats what I teach as well. |