Posted: 9/13/2013 9:46:24 AM EDT
|
Lately, I've been hearing a few different ads on the radio for some sort of CCW insurance. I guess if you're involved in an incident, it's supposed to cover the court costs, etc. Has anyone ever investigated or even signed up for any of these? I don't know why, but it feels a little scammy. Then, I think about Zimmerman and realize that even on a good shoot, if the circumstances aren't so cut and dry, financial ruin could be the result. If these companies are legit, though, maybe it makes sense for the peace of mind.
|
|
There was a discussion about it in the Texas HTF back in June or July and the responses were mostly favorable.
There were a couple of people who claimed, "save your money for a real lawyer" who weren't involved with the program, but do you know what that costs? I'm at $6400 for my piddly divorce custody modification case and we haven't even had a real trial. If I didn't have family backing me, I'd be ruined financially or would have simply lost custody of my children. I can't imagine the shitstorm of lawyers and attorney fees associated with a self defense case. I guarantee its more than $10k and I don't have that kind of money laying around. So we've got the lawyer insurance. Around $25/month for me and my fiancé. $300/year. Even if we saved that for 10 years, we wouldn't have enough for anything except maybe a small retainer. They claim to represent you in both civil and criminal court if you're carrying legally. I forgot the number of cases they said they handled per month, but they had enough that they would not accept clients who were not on their plan, even if they were paying cash. Ask around or heck call their office, ask for references. 877-448-6839 |
|
I guess the real question is whether or not the kind of attorney you can get for $300/year insurance is the one you want to bet your life, freedom, and wealth on after a shooting. Last I heard, Zimmerman owed his attorney $1MM.
One of many reasons why situational awareness and avoidance are at a premium. |
|
Quoted:
I guess the real question is whether or not the kind of attorney you can get for $300/year insurance is the one you want to bet your life, freedom, and wealth on after a shooting. Last I heard, Zimmerman owed his attorney $1MM. One of many reasons why situational awareness and avoidance are at a premium. honestly that really isn't a good way to look at it. According to the texas DPS, as of January 25, 2013, texas had 584,850 active concealed handgun licenses. CHL holders that end up involved in a shooting and needing a lawyer for more than a couple trips to the station are the minority. high profile cases like Zimmerman are extremely rare. using the 1 million figure for Zimmerman's high profile trial is like saying all cars cost 1 million dollars because you went to the dealership and priced out a new bentley. lets just toss around some numbers for a second. Lets say that five percent of the texas CHL holders have purchased this attorneys insurance. five percent of 584,850 = 29,243 people, who are all paying 300$ per year for insurance that most will never need. This brings the law firm's yearly income from INSURANCE PAYMENTS ALONE to $8,772,900. Not exactly chump change. (I have no idea how many people purchase this guys insurance, but 5% seemed to be a fair number for a hypothetical analysis). Will this company have the best lawyers in the country? probably not. But you do get lawyer(s) that specialize in texas CHL and deadly force statutes for a yearly price that wont bankrupt you. I would assume these lawyers are atleast pretty damn good at what they do if this is all they specialize in, and are leaps and bounds better than any court appointed lawyer. |
|
Quoted: honestly that really isn't a good way to look at it. According to the texas DPS, as of January 25, 2013, texas had 584,850 active concealed handgun licenses. CHL holders that end up involved in a shooting and needing a lawyer for more than a couple trips to the station are the minority. high profile cases like Zimmerman are extremely rare. using the 1 million figure for Zimmerman's high profile trial is like saying all cars cost 1 million dollars because you went to the dealership and priced out a new bentley. lets just toss around some numbers for a second. Lets say that five percent of the texas CHL holders have purchased this attorneys insurance. five percent of 584,850 = 29,243 people, who are all paying 300$ per year for insurance that most will never need. This brings the law firm's yearly income from INSURANCE PAYMENTS ALONE to $8,772,900. Not exactly chump change. (I have no idea how many people purchase this guys insurance, but 5% seemed to be a fair number for a hypothetical analysis). Will this company have the best lawyers in the country? probably not. But you do get lawyer(s) that specialize in texas CHL and deadly force statutes for a yearly price that wont bankrupt you. I would assume these lawyers are atleast pretty damn good at what they do if this is all they specialize in, and are leaps and bounds better than any court appointed lawyer. Quoted: Quoted: I guess the real question is whether or not the kind of attorney you can get for $300/year insurance is the one you want to bet your life, freedom, and wealth on after a shooting. Last I heard, Zimmerman owed his attorney $1MM. One of many reasons why situational awareness and avoidance are at a premium. honestly that really isn't a good way to look at it. According to the texas DPS, as of January 25, 2013, texas had 584,850 active concealed handgun licenses. CHL holders that end up involved in a shooting and needing a lawyer for more than a couple trips to the station are the minority. high profile cases like Zimmerman are extremely rare. using the 1 million figure for Zimmerman's high profile trial is like saying all cars cost 1 million dollars because you went to the dealership and priced out a new bentley. lets just toss around some numbers for a second. Lets say that five percent of the texas CHL holders have purchased this attorneys insurance. five percent of 584,850 = 29,243 people, who are all paying 300$ per year for insurance that most will never need. This brings the law firm's yearly income from INSURANCE PAYMENTS ALONE to $8,772,900. Not exactly chump change. (I have no idea how many people purchase this guys insurance, but 5% seemed to be a fair number for a hypothetical analysis). Will this company have the best lawyers in the country? probably not. But you do get lawyer(s) that specialize in texas CHL and deadly force statutes for a yearly price that wont bankrupt you. I would assume these lawyers are atleast pretty damn good at what they do if this is all they specialize in, and are leaps and bounds better than any court appointed lawyer. I guess it would depend on the company and what they provide for the fee (i.e. if they let you choose the lawyer and operate more like a regular insurance company, etc.). Thanks for the pointer to the Texas HTF, I'll definitely look there for that discussion.
|
|
Quoted:
I think you're probably right. After all, if the lawyers suck, then they're not going to be in the insurance business long, I wouldn't think. When I got my CHL, the instructor said that once you've made the decision to shoot, you're looking at an investment of, I forget the exact figure, but it was in the high tens of thousands, near $100k or maybe more (it's been almost two years). I don't know if he was quoting personal experience, published stats, or what. That kind of blows the whole "save the money for a lawyer" argument out of the water. And I'm not even sure if a person who isn't indigent can even roll the dice with a court appointed lawyer anyway, but I'm not certain about that. I guess it would depend on the company and what they provide for the fee (i.e. if they let you choose the lawyer and operate more like a regular insurance company, etc.). Thanks for the pointer to the Texas HTF, I'll definitely look there for that discussion. My instructor said the same thing, i cant recall the exact figures though. a 'simple' dui not involving death or serious injury can run you an easy 10-20+ thousand. You can call the law firm and get their statistics, which i'm honestly curious about at this point. They will tell you how many cases per year they try, how many people are represented but never charged (deemed justified by the DA), how many are aquitted, how many cases they lost, etc... |
|
Quoted:
The instructor for my enhanced concealed carry class reccommended a personal liability policy. I checked on a $1M policy and its $168/year. Yeah, that's my question, does the "umbrella liability insurance" you can get added onto your homeowner's insurance cover a CCW shooting? I'm thinking it MIGHT cover a civil liability, but what about the criminal aspect? I got the $1M liability policy from State Farm. |
|
Quoted: Yeah, that's my question, does the "umbrella liability insurance" you can get added onto your homeowner's insurance cover a CCW shooting? I'm thinking it MIGHT cover a civil liability, but what about the criminal aspect? I got the $1M liability policy from State Farm. Quoted: Quoted: The instructor for my enhanced concealed carry class reccommended a personal liability policy. I checked on a $1M policy and its $168/year. Yeah, that's my question, does the "umbrella liability insurance" you can get added onto your homeowner's insurance cover a CCW shooting? I'm thinking it MIGHT cover a civil liability, but what about the criminal aspect? I got the $1M liability policy from State Farm. What a sad state of affairs that we even have to be asking these questions.
|
| I have Texas Law Shield, I love it. I have the Multi State Option that covers me in like, a dozen other states. I can call them for any legal questions, and they are with me from start to finish on ALL LEGAL issues. I am covered for all Civil and Criminal suits. |
|
Quoted:
I have Texas Law Shield, I love it. I have the Multi State Option that covers me in like, a dozen other states. I can call them for any legal questions, and they are with me from start to finish on ALL LEGAL issues. I am covered for all Civil and Criminal suits. Ditto for Texas Law Shield. A homeowners policy is not going to pay for a criminal attorney. |
|
Quoted:
Yeah, that's my question, does the "umbrella liability insurance" you can get added onto your homeowner's insurance cover a CCW shooting? I'm thinking it MIGHT cover a civil liability, but what about the criminal aspect? I got the $1M liability policy from State Farm. I was just looking into umbrella insurance myself, and the ones I looked at all stated that they covered the liability from self-defense. I suppose it hinges on that right there. Is it considered self-defense in criminal court? Is criminal court part of your liability? I've not got a policy yet. Too many weasel words in it as to all the ways they can get out of paying, plus it's really expensive for me (combination of location, number of vehicles owned, etc), AND it specifically exempts most of the activities where I would need it anyways (and can potentially be voided if I participate in some of those activities)... Maybe once I'm retired and quit doing anything fun an umbrella policy will be possible. |
|
Quoted:
I was just looking into umbrella insurance myself, and the ones I looked at all stated that they covered the liability from self-defense. I suppose it hinges on that right there. Is it considered self-defense in criminal court? Is criminal court part of your liability? I've not got a policy yet. Too many weasel words in it as to all the ways they can get out of paying, plus it's really expensive for me (combination of location, number of vehicles owned, etc), AND it specifically exempts most of the activities where I would need it anyways (and can potentially be voided if I participate in some of those activities)... Maybe once I'm retired and quit doing anything fun an umbrella policy will be possible. Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, that's my question, does the "umbrella liability insurance" you can get added onto your homeowner's insurance cover a CCW shooting? I'm thinking it MIGHT cover a civil liability, but what about the criminal aspect? I got the $1M liability policy from State Farm. I was just looking into umbrella insurance myself, and the ones I looked at all stated that they covered the liability from self-defense. I suppose it hinges on that right there. Is it considered self-defense in criminal court? Is criminal court part of your liability? I've not got a policy yet. Too many weasel words in it as to all the ways they can get out of paying, plus it's really expensive for me (combination of location, number of vehicles owned, etc), AND it specifically exempts most of the activities where I would need it anyways (and can potentially be voided if I participate in some of those activities)... Maybe once I'm retired and quit doing anything fun an umbrella policy will be possible. Call your agent and ask. Insurance is NOT going to cover you in a criminal case. |
|
That's the other thing, these guys specialize in chl/ccw self defense type cases. So they probably can tell you about the particulars of say Harris or Bexar Co, the judges, the DA's, etc on this issue.
Again, when I needed to contest my divorce, I went and got a board certified family law lawyer who knew the judges for my court, not a patent lawyer. |
|
Quoted:
That's the other thing, these guys specialize in chl/ccw self defense type cases. So they probably can tell you about the particulars of say Harris or Bexar Co, the judges, the DA's, etc on this issue. Again, when I needed to contest my divorce, I went and got a board certified family law lawyer who knew the judges for my court, not a patent lawyer. Texas Law Shield is honestly the way to go. They will help you fight the fight from start to finish, criminal and civil cases. They are competent, experienced lawyers as well. Get insurance too, in case you shoot up someones car or damage property or whatever...but TLS is more important IMO. I may do $50,000 in damages, but if I get a lawyer to fight the fight and say Im not responsible, the perp is responsible, then I dont need the 50,000 policy, AND if I did my rates arent jacked up. Im sure one day when the budget is right I'll get the insurance, but for now the TLS legal defense suffices. I get multi state coverage too. |
|
Quoted:
Yeah, that's my question, does the "umbrella liability insurance" you can get added onto your homeowner's insurance cover a CCW shooting? I'm thinking it MIGHT cover a civil liability, but what about the criminal aspect? I got the $1M liability policy from State Farm. Quoted:
Quoted:
The instructor for my enhanced concealed carry class reccommended a personal liability policy. I checked on a $1M policy and its $168/year. Yeah, that's my question, does the "umbrella liability insurance" you can get added onto your homeowner's insurance cover a CCW shooting? I'm thinking it MIGHT cover a civil liability, but what about the criminal aspect? I got the $1M liability policy from State Farm. Even if your homeowner's policy covers a CCW shooting, what lawyer(s) is the insurance company going to get for you? I've seen "corporate" lawyers hired who were obviously unversed (to say it nicely) in criminal law then proceed to get themselves and their client pummeled in the courtroom. Like the OP I've recently started hearing the ads on SiriusXM Patriot Channel. This type of insurance is not new, its been available to LEO's for years but I'm not personally familiar with the specific company. Overall I think its a good idea to seriously consider getting covered and having access to lawyers who specialize in self defense cases. Anything less could end you in jail or the poorhouse. |
|
Quoted:
Overall I think its a good idea to seriously consider getting covered and having access to lawyers who specialize in self defense cases. Anything less could end you in jail or the poorhouse. The problem is that carrying insurance for everything that can happen can put you in the poorhouse even quicker. :-/ It's a tough decision on what to carry/what your needs may be. |
|
Quoted:
The problem is that carrying insurance for everything that can happen can put you in the poorhouse even quicker. :-/ It's a tough decision on what to carry/what your needs may be. Quoted:
Quoted:
Overall I think its a good idea to seriously consider getting covered and having access to lawyers who specialize in self defense cases. Anything less could end you in jail or the poorhouse. The problem is that carrying insurance for everything that can happen can put you in the poorhouse even quicker. :-/ It's a tough decision on what to carry/what your needs may be. I hear ya. Any financial decision requires thought and analysis of risk management. In this case though, for the cost of an attorney for one hour you can get coverage. |