[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Self Defense Reaction (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/17/2012 11:27:56 AM EDT
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So I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, and frankly I don't care, but heres my philosophy. I keep all handguns unloaded with a full magazine beside them. Inside my home I keep one loaded handgun, the rest are not, but readily loadable instantly. I figure if you have time to access it, you can probably load it. If not, one is ready for on the go.
Well, last night I stayed over at my brother and his fiancés apartment and had my CCW on me. When I went to bed I slept on the couch and unloaded my CZ82 and put both full mags beside it. I had forgotten that at 4am he had to be up for a Ruck March for his ROTC. (I am also in the army reserves). Well, he arrived back at 6am, and I wasn't due to wake up for another hour and a half. Down the street there were SWAT vehicles around a house, and my brother came into the house quite loud, making a scuffle. The door is right across from the couch I was on, and when he came in he was loudly saying my name and trying to say "Come see this! Dude something is going on!" I was fast asleep like a baby, but this sudden awakening had startled me and I jumped up and as soon as he came in sight I did the first thing that came to my mind. Rush the close objective. I ran up to him, not even conscious, and grabbed him and started pushing him back to the door and was fighting him. He was trying to say "Hey what are you doing? Its me! Hey!" and it was a few seconds before I realized what was happening. I realized several things. First off, my military instincts of rushing a close threat kicked in, and I was prepared to fight him even in my lack of consciousness. Second, if the SWAT incident had led a criminal to flee to a house, and he picked ours, and this wasn't my brother, I could have been in a fight that cost me my life because I didn't grab my gun. But third, if I had grabbed my gun and it was loaded, I could very well have shot my brother. Thoughts please. |
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Leave it loaded in its holster and in a desk or dresser drawer. You have to make a conscious decision to open the drawer and unholster the weapon. Thats where I leave it when Im at home, one loaded and in the bedside stand. Anyone ever have a reaction similar? Something happened and they just, reacted? |
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Quoted: This!keep your gun loaded. when you sleep, put it in a place that is accessable, YET, far away enough away to where you HAVE to be awake to actually think about it, and get it (ie: not under your pillow) WAKE up I don't carry how you roll your self defense piece, but for god's sake, you should NOT be armed if you cannot identify your target before you go into 'fight' mode. I can assure you, a jury will NOT understand that your 'military mode' kicked in. |
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keep your gun loaded. when you sleep, put it in a place that is accessable, YET, far away enough away to where you HAVE to be awake to actually think about it, and get it (ie: not under your pillow) WAKE up I don't carry how you roll your self defense piece, but for god's sake, you should NOT be armed if you cannot identify your target before you go into 'fight' mode. I can assure you, a jury will NOT understand that your 'military mode' kicked in. This is about what I was thinking when I posted what I did. I just did not articulate it properly . |
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keep your gun loaded. when you sleep, put it in a place that is accessable, YET, far away enough away to where you HAVE to be awake to actually think about it, and get it (ie: not under your pillow) WAKE up I don't carry how you roll your self defense piece, but for god's sake, you should NOT be armed if you cannot identify your target before you go into 'fight' mode. I can assure you, a jury will NOT understand that your 'military mode' kicked in. This is about what I was thinking when I posted what I did. I just did not articulate it properly . Both of you failed to note the actual purpose of this. When I went at him I had no weapon, I sprang straight from bed, as he was 4 feet away so I jumped up and pushed him back. I did not go for my weapon. The thought didn't cross my mind. The purpose of this was to examine self defense "reactions", similar experiences, and what circumstances anyone may have had, or may have avoided messing up in, because you put the gun far away. I know enough to wake the hell up when I touch a firearm, what I am saying is that I am glad I sprang into hand to hand mode at close range because he was so close. I understand identification of the target, but being startled in your sleep at your mind thinking you are under attack trigger a response. I am just curious as to your experiences. I quite know how to handle myself with firearms, and don't need assumptuous accusations otherwise. This is meant to be a reflection on reacting to a situation when a gun was accessible, but you DONT use the gun. Also, how to deal with someone who may have a firearm. |
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keep your gun loaded. when you sleep, put it in a place that is accessable, YET, far away enough away to where you HAVE to be awake to actually think about it, and get it (ie: not under your pillow) WAKE up I don't carry how you roll your self defense piece, but for god's sake, you should NOT be armed if you cannot identify your target before you go into 'fight' mode. I can assure you, a jury will NOT understand that your 'military mode' kicked in. This is about what I was thinking when I posted what I did. I just did not articulate it properly . Both of you failed to note the actual purpose of this. When I went at him I had no weapon, I sprang straight from bed, as he was 4 feet away so I jumped up and pushed him back. I did not go for my weapon. The thought didn't cross my mind. The purpose of this was to examine self defense "reactions", similar experiences, and what circumstances anyone may have had, or may have avoided messing up in, because you put the gun far away. I know enough to wake the hell up when I touch a firearm, what I am saying is that I am glad I sprang into hand to hand mode at close range because he was so close. I understand identification of the target, but being startled in your sleep at your mind thinking you are under attack trigger a response. I am just curious as to your experiences. I quite know how to handle myself with firearms, and don't need assumptuous accusations otherwise. This is meant to be a reflection on reacting to a situation when a gun was accessible, but you DONT use the gun. Also, how to deal with someone who may have a firearm. Actually, the last paragraph specifically states that I DIDNT grab the gun, so the misunderstanding is a lack of reading. |
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Always keep you weapon loaded, your brother needs to learn to turn on the lights, when he tries to wake some one up.
Not sure if he shook you too, but that is bad thing to do to anyone. Your brother needs think about how he would react before he starts just going on impulse. Also next to your loaded weapon should always be a flashlight like a surefire back up, this should also be on you when you carry at all times, 4th rule to safe firearms handling. always clearly identify your target and what is behind it, keep your finger off the trigger until the target is clearly identified. |
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So I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, and frankly I don't care, but heres my philosophy. I keep all handguns unloaded with a full magazine beside them. Inside my home I keep one loaded handgun, the rest are not, but readily loadable instantly. I figure if you have time to access it, you can probably load it. If not, one is ready for on the go. Well, last night I stayed over at my brother and his fiancés apartment and had my CCW on me. When I went to bed I slept on the couch and unloaded my CZ82 and put both full mags beside it. I had forgotten that at 4am he had to be up for a Ruck March for his ROTC. (I am also in the army reserves). Well, he arrived back at 6am, and I wasn't due to wake up for another hour and a half. Down the street there were SWAT vehicles around a house, and my brother came into the house quite loud, making a scuffle. The door is right across from the couch I was on, and when he came in he was loudly saying my name and trying to say "Come see this! Dude something is going on!" I was fast asleep like a baby, but this sudden awakening had startled me and I jumped up and as soon as he came in sight I did the first thing that came to my mind. Rush the close objective. I ran up to him, not even conscious, and grabbed him and started pushing him back to the door and was fighting him. He was trying to say "Hey what are you doing? Its me! Hey!" and it was a few seconds before I realized what was happening. I realized several things. First off, my military instincts of rushing a close threat kicked in, and I was prepared to fight him even in my lack of consciousness. Second, if the SWAT incident had led a criminal to flee to a house, and he picked ours, and this wasn't my brother, I could have been in a fight that cost me my life because I didn't grab my gun. But third, if I had grabbed my gun and it was loaded, I could very well have shot my brother. Thoughts please. Your philosophy sucks. When you needed it you didn't go for it. 
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Quoted: Again, the misunderstanding is a lack of reading.. No, it's not. I can read just fine. As a matter of fact, I have ridiculously high reading comprehension. What you fail to understand is that your automatic fight reaction is NOT restricted to being asleep, nor is it restricted to being unarmed. If you can go into a blind rage and attack a family member, you may just shoot your wife who is trying to defend herself from an attacker, or your dog who is going apeshit over a prowler outside. There are countless scenarios that could play out with you fucking up because your 'military side' came out. Do yourself a favor, get that under control, and then figure out how you want roll your carry. I'm not being a dick, I'm genuinely concerned for you and those around you. You can keep getting defensive, and insulting people who post the truth in this thread, or you can seek professional help, and work through your PTSD issues. |
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Again, the misunderstanding is a lack of reading.. No, it's not. I can read just fine. As a matter of fact, I have ridiculously high reading comprehension. What you fail to understand is that your automatic fight reaction is NOT restricted to being asleep, nor is it restricted to being unarmed. If you can go into a blind rage and attack a family member, you may just shoot your wife who is trying to defend herself from an attacker, or your dog who is going apeshit over a prowler outside. There are countless scenarios that could play out with you fucking up because your 'military side' came out. Do yourself a favor, get that under control, and then figure out how you want roll your carry. I'm not being a dick, I'm genuinely concerned for you and those around you. You can keep getting defensive, and insulting people who post the truth in this thread, or you can seek professional help, and work through your PTSD issues. Lol, Im not going to debate this. You are obviously not getting this. You act as if I was in a blind rage. I clearly said the only military reaction I had was to engage a close up threat by rushing the close up threat. I wasnt wailing on him, I sprang up, grabbed the front of him and began pushing him back and yelling "Who are you? Get out!" and a host of other things as I had just woken up. I was NOT in a blind rage. You are interpreting this wrongly, and you are not contributing to the discussion. Please see your way out of this, Mr High Reading Comprehension. I couldn't have shot my brother even if I WAS in a blind rage, because I DIDNT HAVE A GUN ON MY PERSON, AND I DID NOT REACT BY GRABBING A WEAPON. You have neither proven your reading comprehension, nor participated in a meaningful or on topic capacity to this discussion. My reaction was not a fit of rage, it was self defense. He came in the door with a rucous. I heard it in my sleep and when he went to shake me, I jumped off the couch, he stepped back, and I closed in on him , grabbing the front of his shirt and pushing him back. As someone said before, he tried to shake me awake. I hate that I have to clarify all this for you, because none of it is truly relevant. Im asking about peoples natural reactions to self defense situations, and their weaknesses and strengths they have seen. You have done none of those, and may as well be advertising to sell a handgun in this thread, as your content of posts are just as off topic. |
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Always keep you weapon loaded, your brother needs to learn to turn on the lights, when he tries to wake some one up. Not sure if he shook you too, but that is bad thing to do to anyone. Your brother needs think about how he would react before he starts just going on impulse. Also next to your loaded weapon should always be a flashlight like a surefire back up, this should also be on you when you carry at all times, 4th rule to safe firearms handling. always clearly identify your target and what is behind it, keep your finger off the trigger until the target is clearly identified. Thats a very good thought. Thanks for the idea, and I definitely agree on that. |
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You did not close on a threat, you closed on your host. I would think keen military instincts would be to identify before attacking.
No offense, but it seems to me you expected us to be impressed with your reaction; I don't think that is going to happen. I think it was poor. |
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You did not close on a threat, you closed on your host. I would think keen military instincts would be to identify before attacking. No offense, but it seems to me you expected us to be impressed with your reaction; I don't think that is going to happen. I think it was poor. Lol, okay. Then by your false logic the 11 page thread of "Situations that saved our life" is nothing different. |
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Like the OP should think before going on impulse?
Always keep you weapon loaded, your brother needs to learn to turn on the lights, when he tries to wake some one up. Not sure if he shook you too, but that is bad thing to do to anyone. Your brother needs think about how he would react before he starts just going on impulse. |
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You did not close on a threat, you closed on your host. I would think keen military instincts would be to identify before attacking. No offense, but it seems to me you expected us to be impressed with your reaction; I don't think that is going to happen. I think it was poor. Lol, okay. Then by your false logic the 11 page thread of "Situations that saved our life" is nothing different. Nothing false about my logic. But you are not really looking for opinions unless they agree with you, so carry on. |
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You did not close on a threat, you closed on your host. I would think keen military instincts would be to identify before attacking. No offense, but it seems to me you expected us to be impressed with your reaction; I don't think that is going to happen. I think it was poor. Lol, okay. Then by your false logic the 11 page thread of "Situations that saved our life" is nothing different. Nothing false about my logic. But you are not really looking for opinions unless they agree with you, so carry on. You obviously have the same issue in reading comprehension The purpose of this post is not to get people to tell me about how I did, the purpose was anyone else's situations, reflections, or reactionary traits they have. Thanks guys, for hijacking the thread, misdirecting it, and flaming all over the place. |
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Like the OP should think before going on impulse?
Always keep you weapon loaded, your brother needs to learn to turn on the lights, when he tries to wake some one up. Not sure if he shook you too, but that is bad thing to do to anyone. Your brother needs think about how he would react before he starts just going on impulse. I grabbed him and started pushing him, yelling and making noise and trying to figure out what was going on...either way its not the point. Stop hijacking the thread. |
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Im asking about peoples natural reactions to self defense situations, and their weaknesses and strengths they have seen. I'm sorry then, I misunderstood the entire point of the thread. Yes I have a natural tendency to be aggressive and alert 24x7. This comes from being in the .mil and now working in LE. The main thing I have to remind myself of is that 90% of situations that seem to be seriously bad news are probably not, so I have to keep myself in check. There have been many times where just being situationally aware kept me from a serious confrontation or other issue. I'm a light sleeper, so even when the dogs drop a low growl, I'm on my game. I also have a monitor by my bed so if I get woken up in a start, I can rapidly assess my situation. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-oSGoX608B_s/T2UxW3G7a3I/AAAAAAAAJ5c/UbRCGnAqews/s640/photo.jpg Here is the current view: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5JbNaW6JAsU/UEu8fpQ9cOI/AAAAAAAAMJ4/_JY3sZPByxU/s800/complete2.png I also keep an M4 with a light by the bed, and my glock with light. My apologies for having come across insulting. *Hugs* Hopefully txinvestigator can bring this back on topic... Anyways, thats a nice setup you have there sir, I like it. I wish I could afford such a setup. Do you have a PA system? If I ever had a setup like that, I would have two dobermans named Zeus and Apollo ;P |
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My take is that you went into a sort of "kill" mode subconsciously before you were conscious of your situation. If your subconscious mind would have went for your weapon, the story may have ended very different. I was once woke by headlights shining in my bedroom window about 2am. We live in the country, and the only way to have headlights in my bedroom window was a vehicle pulling in. I immediately grabbed the 1911 by the bed and went into house defense mode. I noticed a figure headed to the back door. (This is the main door we use for entry). I take a concealment position behind the kitchen counter as the door is opened. With a 1911 pointed right at the man's chest, the light goes on. It was my brother (who was living with us) that had decided it was a good idea to leave at midnight for McDonald's 15 miles away  . After giving him all kinds of hell, we went to bed. Notes: I did not intend to fire until I HAD to. I IDENTIFIED MY TARGET!!! My brother is very grateful to this day. I gave myself time to wake up (not always possible, I know). Most situations are harmless. I need a security camera system. My brother is an idiot. |
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I grabbed him and started pushing him, yelling and making noise and trying to figure out what was going on...either way its not the point. Stop hijacking the thread. No offense, but this is the Carry Issues forum and your post has zero to do with Carry Issues. Before you ask, yes, I can read. bluesticky |
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I grabbed him and started pushing him, yelling and making noise and trying to figure out what was going on...either way its not the point. Stop hijacking the thread. No offense, but this is the Carry Issues forum and your post has zero to do with Carry Issues. Before you ask, yes, I can read. bluesticky Asking for peoples reactions for a close up threat is relevant. Read more than the OP. Good Day. |
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Quoted: Anyways, thats a nice setup you have there sir, I like it. I wish I could afford such a setup. Do you have a PA system? If I ever had a setup like that, I would have two dobermans named Zeus and Apollo ;P Yes sir, we have a PA system. I'm working on a remote PTZ surveillance system for my driveway(solar powered, and wireless transmission), which is heavily wooded and nearly a mile long. There is only one vehicle access point to my 20 acres, and it is a private bridge. We bought the property because my wife and I are paranoid freaks about security. |
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Anyways, thats a nice setup you have there sir, I like it. I wish I could afford such a setup. Do you have a PA system? If I ever had a setup like that, I would have two dobermans named Zeus and Apollo ;P Yes sir, we have a PA system. I'm working on a remote PTZ surveillance system for my driveway(solar powered, and wireless transmission), which is heavily wooded and nearly a mile long. There is only one vehicle access point to my 20 acres, and it is a private bridge. We bought the property because my wife and I are paranoid freaks about security. Most Impressive. You should get some tank barriers from WWII have them ready to barricade that bride. Do you have designated points where you can engage anyone approaching from the access point? |
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Quoted: Most Impressive. You should get some tank barriers from WWII have them ready to barricade that bride. Do you have designated points where you can engage anyone approaching from the access point? We have the bridge covered by a few large trees that will be dropped in the case of extreme needs of privacy. I also have a tractor that will be used to push dirt from my field on the tree stacks. We have measured all attack points and they are documented and 3 of our .308 rifles are dialed in at those distances. Our home is build into the back of a mountain, so we have limited exposure, other than higher ground from the mountain. |
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I am not going to read the rambling story again to try to figure out what the "point" is supposed to be. Hint, if everybody misses it, your post wasn't as clear as it should have been. Anyway, this is why everybody in the household should LOCK THE FUCKING DOOR when they leave. "My brother is inside with a gun, he'll take care of things" is a bad way to think about it. The unlocking process gives anybody inside later, a chance to go "oh, they have a key, must be X, Y, or Z, or the landlord." Even if I am out in the boonies at my parents place, the door is locked after dark. In the city where I live, the door is always locked, even if I am out watering the lawn and there are two adults inside. The lock is a safety mechanism as well as security. |
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keep your gun loaded. when you sleep, put it in a place that is accessable, YET, far away enough away to where you HAVE to be awake to actually think about it, and get it (ie: not under your pillow) WAKE up I don't carry how you roll your self defense piece, but for god's sake, you should NOT be armed if you cannot identify your target before you go into 'fight' mode. I can assure you, a jury will NOT understand that your 'military mode' kicked in. This is about what I was thinking when I posted what I did. I just did not articulate it properly . Both of you failed to note the actual purpose of this. When I went at him I had no weapon, I sprang straight from bed, as he was 4 feet away so I jumped up and pushed him back. I did not go for my weapon. The thought didn't cross my mind. The purpose of this was to examine self defense "reactions", similar experiences, and what circumstances anyone may have had, or may have avoided messing up in, because you put the gun far away. I know enough to wake the hell up when I touch a firearm, what I am saying is that I am glad I sprang into hand to hand mode at close range because he was so close. I understand identification of the target, but being startled in your sleep at your mind thinking you are under attack trigger a response. I am just curious as to your experiences. I quite know how to handle myself with firearms, and don't need assumptuous accusations otherwise. This is meant to be a reflection on reacting to a situation when a gun was accessible, but you DONT use the gun. Also, how to deal with someone who may have a firearm. Actually, the last paragraph specifically states that I DIDNT grab the gun, so the misunderstanding is a lack of reading. "But third, if I had grabbed my gun and it was loaded, I could very well have shot my brother." These are you own words. There was no misunderstanding on my part either. You asked for thoughts and when thoughts were given you want to debate. The thoughts I posted still are. |
If you have these issues, you should isolate yourself when you sleep. 
I mean this in all seriousness and with no ill-intent. If when you are startled while asleep you rush people and start accosting them, you might think about seeing a professional. Some people do wild shit when they've been asleep. Piss in the corner, have full conversations, attack whoever wakes them up. |
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I am a very light sleeper, so when I "wake up" even in the middle of the night, I am usually coherent immediately.
So as far as my reactions go, it depends on how much sleep I have had (not just that night, but in general for the last few days) If I am pretty well rested I will usually wake up very alert with very little "fog". If I have NOT slept much in the past few days it takes longer for my brain to start "processing", but I am still aware of where I am and basic information of what is going on around me. I.E. I am not going to shoot a family member. Best example I can give is once when I was about 17. I was in charge of garbage duty, and there had been a dog getting into the garbage and spreading stuff all over the place. I woke up at about 5:30AM (just around dawn) because I heard a scratching sound. It was one of those weird moments where you hear something and immediately know what it is. It was the dog pulling a plastic milk jug across the concrete. I woke up to that noise and instantly processed all that. So I grabbed a pellet gun (this was in town) and ran out to teach the dog a lesson. I rounded the corner on the front porch and saw an ENORMOUS rottweiler digging through our garbage. I thought about shooting him for half a second and then he started barking and charged me. I was close enough to the door that I just ran inside. Kind of a long winded story, but that is an example of the BEST case scenario in terms of having no "brain fog" and being able to instantly process data. However, even in that scenario I wasn't prepared to deal with the actual situation. I just assumed that it was the neighbors dog (they had a Jack Russell that got out all the time), but as it turned out it was not. That was also over 10 years ago, and I generally don't get as much sleep as I did then. Still, I have had several events more recently (noises etc. at night) that woke me up, and I was pretty clear headed in those cases. Point being, how coherent you are when you wake up, how well your brain is processing data, is not necessarily as important as your "training". In the example I gave, I was very coherent and processing just fine, but I made the wrong decision because I made an assumption that I shouldn't have. Being older now, I have learned not to assume anything. Hope for the best and be prepared for the worst. When I am staying with relatives my practice is to leave the mag in the gun, but unload the chamber. At home its a shotgun with shells in the tube, but nothing chambered. I have a light on my home gun, and I always have a flashlight next to my carry pistol when I am staying with family. |
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keep your gun loaded. when you sleep, put it in a place that is accessable, YET, far away enough away to where you HAVE to be awake to actually think about it, and get it (ie: not under your pillow) WAKE up I don't carry how you roll your self defense piece, but for god's sake, you should NOT be armed if you cannot identify your target before you go into 'fight' mode. I can assure you, a jury will NOT understand that your 'military mode' kicked in. This is about what I was thinking when I posted what I did. I just did not articulate it properly . Both of you failed to note the actual purpose of this. When I went at him I had no weapon, I sprang straight from bed, as he was 4 feet away so I jumped up and pushed him back. I did not go for my weapon. The thought didn't cross my mind. The purpose of this was to examine self defense "reactions", similar experiences, and what circumstances anyone may have had, or may have avoided messing up in, because you put the gun far away. I know enough to wake the hell up when I touch a firearm, what I am saying is that I am glad I sprang into hand to hand mode at close range because he was so close. I understand identification of the target, but being startled in your sleep at your mind thinking you are under attack trigger a response. I am just curious as to your experiences. I quite know how to handle myself with firearms, and don't need assumptuous accusations otherwise. This is meant to be a reflection on reacting to a situation when a gun was accessible, but you DONT use the gun. Also, how to deal with someone who may have a firearm. Actually, the last paragraph specifically states that I DIDNT grab the gun, so the misunderstanding is a lack of reading. "But third, if I had grabbed my gun and it was loaded, I could very well have shot my brother." These are you own words. There was no misunderstanding on my part either. You asked for thoughts and when thoughts were given you want to debate. The thoughts I posted still are. You are still misunderstanding. I also said I hadnt grabbed my gun, and it could have cost me dearly. The point is that I was doing an analysis of the positive that happened, and the negative that happened. Surely I would not have shot my brother because I would have identified him before I shot, but the fact that I would have grabbed my gun and, even without shooting, he would still have been at risk. You are entirely missing the point, and if you dont want to get back on topic, flame elsewhere. You clearly are misunderstanding, you clearly dont even know the situations demeanor, it wasnt even that bad, this isnt about how I acted, this is about the concept of reactions and if anyone has seen similar, what their reactionary procedures are, and the pros and cons they have seen in themselves. You dont like how I acted? Fine, you can not like it, and not post. Stop looking for someone to condescendingly post to, because you find some self entertainment in pretending you uncovered someone who stains the name of the game. If you knew anything about me, knew anything about the actual situation, you would have realized, NO ONE WAS IN ANY REAL DANGER. You all act as if I was awoken and I assault someone or grabbed a gun. I awoke with a startle, so I ran up, grabbed him by the collar, pushed him back, and was yelling "Who are you? What are you doing? Are you crazy?" Because he woke me up with a startle. There was no fight. All I am saying is that, like many people have said before, people should be careful when waking others up. Get a clue, read for content not for self interpretation, ask to clarify, and dont jump to ASSumptions that make you look like an ASS. Again, you misread. And for the above poster, the door was locked. I had pandora playing on my lap top so I couldnt have heard something so discreet as a key, but thats why there is a German Shepherd, who didnt go off because he knew it was my brother. Thats why he got an edge on awaking me last minute when he got through the door. Any other person trying to come through that door wouldnt have made it to the porch without that shepherd sounding off. So, maybe I wasnt clear in my post, but I have been clear now and I have made more clear my intentions for this thread. Stick to them or dont post. Flamers, flame elsewhere. |
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I am a very light sleeper, so when I "wake up" even in the middle of the night, I am usually coherent immediately. So as far as my reactions go, it depends on how much sleep I have had (not just that night, but in general for the last few days) If I am pretty well rested I will usually wake up very alert with very little "fog". If I have NOT slept much in the past few days it takes longer for my brain to start "processing", but I am still aware of where I am and basic information of what is going on around me. I.E. I am not going to shoot a family member. Best example I can give is once when I was about 17. I was in charge of garbage duty, and there had been a dog getting into the garbage and spreading stuff all over the place. I woke up at about 5:30AM (just around dawn) because I heard a scratching sound. It was one of those weird moments where you hear something and immediately know what it is. It was the dog pulling a plastic milk jug across the concrete. I woke up to that noise and instantly processed all that. So I grabbed a pellet gun (this was in town) and ran out to teach the dog a lesson. I rounded the corner on the front porch and saw an ENORMOUS rottweiler digging through our garbage. I thought about shooting him for half a second and then he started barking and charged me. I was close enough to the door that I just ran inside. Kind of a long winded story, but that is an example of the BEST case scenario in terms of having no "brain fog" and being able to instantly process data. However, even in that scenario I wasn't prepared to deal with the actual situation. I just assumed that it was the neighbors dog (they had a Jack Russell that got out all the time), but as it turned out it was not. That was also over 10 years ago, and I generally don't get as much sleep as I did then. Still, I have had several events more recently (noises etc. at night) that woke me up, and I was pretty clear headed in those cases. Point being, how coherent you are when you wake up, how well your brain is processing data, is not necessarily as important as your "training". In the example I gave, I was very coherent and processing just fine, but I made the wrong decision because I made an assumption that I shouldn't have. Being older now, I have learned not to assume anything. Hope for the best and be prepared for the worst. When I am staying with relatives my practice is to leave the mag in the gun, but unload the chamber. At home its a shotgun with shells in the tube, but nothing chambered. I have a light on my home gun, and I always have a flashlight next to my carry pistol when I am staying with family. And see, thats how I am. I hadnt had much sleep this last week so I was having the brain fog. I knew I was in an apartment with paper walls so I didnt grab the gun. I knew my brother could be coming home, so I didnt grab the gun. However, he had a key, I hadnt heard the door unlock over pandora music player, and the dog didnt sound off, so nothing was fishy to wake my senses. My senses first awoke when he stared saying something as he came through the door on top of him touching my foot and shaking it so quickly to waking me. Being startled and foggy, I was more of running into his face and pushing him to the door thinking a combination of "Who the hell is this and what are they doing" as well as " What made you think it was a good idea to scare the shit out of someone in a deep sleep when it was their first time getting decent rest." |
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Thoughts please. You asked for peoples thoughts on your reactions. They give you thier thoughts and becasue they don't agree with you and think you handled it wrong you think they are flaming you. If you don't want peoples opinion don't go on a public forum and ask people for there thoughts. People will disagree with you. Quoted:
First off, my military instincts of rushing a close threat kicked in, and I was prepared to fight him even in my lack of consciousness. Like other have said you went into "military mode" and got into a confrontation before identifing your target. Quoted:
Second, if the SWAT incident had led a criminal to flee to a house, and he picked ours, and this wasn't my brother, I could have been in a fight that cost me my life because I didn't grab my gun. same as above. Quoted:
But third, if I had grabbed my gun and it was loaded, I could very well have shot my brother. If you reactions would have been programed to grab your gun you would been in a confrontation with your brother, with a gun, because you did not identify your target before you reacted. |
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Thoughts please. You asked for peoples thoughts on your reactions. They give you thier thoughts and becasue they don't agree with you and think you handled it wrong you think they are flaming you. If you don't want peoples opinion don't go on a public forum and ask people for there thoughts. People will disagree with you. Quoted:
First off, my military instincts of rushing a close threat kicked in, and I was prepared to fight him even in my lack of consciousness. Like other have said you went into "military mode" and got into a confrontation before identifing your target. Quoted:
Second, if the SWAT incident had led a criminal to flee to a house, and he picked ours, and this wasn't my brother, I could have been in a fight that cost me my life because I didn't grab my gun. same as above. Quoted:
But third, if I had grabbed my gun and it was loaded, I could very well have shot my brother. If you reactions would have been programed to grab your gun you would been in a confrontation with your brother, with a gun, because you did not identify your target before you reacted. Im not sure where you are jumping to some of these conclusions from, but obviously you haven't been reading. See your way out. |
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I think the OP has said "you obviously haven't been reading" at least 12 times.
I agree with the others. You aren't safe. You keep your gun unloaded for self defense which is illogical. You attack unarmed innocent people, which is illogical. I can read. I did read. I find you wanting. |
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9mac.......you were sleep walking...sleep reacting...it was caused by your sense of safety and the fact that you didn't hear anything till your brother yelled...probably in a tone that wasn't recognizable to you as his....I bet you find thier couch very comfortable. In this state most react on pure instinct...which for most isn't grabbing a gun.( or in your case grabbing a mag and pistol inserting mag and racking a round..that is if you get the orientation of the mag correct the first time...wink wink..see what I did thier ). It's quite possible to have 20 yrs training in QC pistol skills and still react like you did, it's actually experiencing that situation for real that gives you the ability to adapt your instinct. 4:20 am. BANGBANGBANG BANGBANG. I bolt up hear a car screech off..I bolt to the window to try and catch what direction the car is heading...call the PD ..I'm groggy and talking but I'm not awake...the sleep chemicals are still in my head.. I checked on my pistol with my hand first thing...but I grabbed the phone first...took way to long to dial then it would of if I was awake. Tell them what I knew..5 shots and car drove off...4 cyl car with cheap aftermarket exhaust..told them I thought they went north ( they went south) ...thing is I was first caller and thier was only one other caller..heck the house that got shot up didn't even call...and every one around me came out and talked to the cops said thier was 7 shots....well it ended up being 38sp and they found 5 rounds in the porch. Bottom line the brain is amazing..but getting awoke like that is like being drunk...somethings work well others don't. |
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Might be time for mods to shut down this topic....  +1 Agreed. Its been flamed to pieces. Actually, I feel you are attacking everyone that doesn't say what you want them to say. Not even sure what you want, actually. Cheers,
Reading skills are not the issue; everyone understands it just fine. He just doesn't like what people are telling him. |
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Might be time for mods to shut down this topic.... +1 Agreed. Its been flamed to pieces. Actually, I feel you are attacking everyone that doesn't say what you want them to say. Not even sure what you want, actually. Cheers,
Reading skills are not the issue; everyone understands it just fine. He just doesn't like what people are telling him. Agreed, I can read and did read every post. He is attacking everyone that feel his reaction was not what they feel is right. I am not sure why he came on the forum asking for peoples thoughts then gets upset when they give them to him. |
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Someone link the OP to the shootout video thread and let him see jst how much time you may have to rack the slide.
That is if you even have both hands available. I Carry my firearms hot, be it my shield, glock or 1911's... round in the chamber, safety on if the weapon has it. at home I keep my glock in the nightstand with one in the pipe and a topped off magazine, aswell as a spare mag and a 6P |
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OP, to give thoughts on what you wanted out of this thread, if it were a situation where you needed your gun, you would have likely been killed.
Now that you know I can read and comprehend what I am reading, here are the rest of my thoughts on the situation: First, it is a good thing you did not go for your gun because you would have likely killed your brother(providing your "training" kicked in and you charged your weapon. You do train to do so I assume?). As others have said, the military training defense will not hold up in court. Second, you can think all you want that you would have been in a more conscious state if you grabbed the gun, but I disagree. If you didn't wake up by getting up, running toward your brother and getting into a physical altercation with him while yelling verbal commands, why would you wake up after grabbing the gun that was right next to you? Your military training? Instincts? No. You can't possibly know how you would instinctively act if you grabbed a gun in your sleep, because your instincts didn't tell you to grab the gun! Your instincts told you to rush the threat, or in your case, the person who was not a threat. Third, I hope that you invest in some training for self defense situations before you decide you are going to continue to have guns around you. I hope that this was a wake up call for you, recognizing in your original post that you could have shot your brother had the gun been loaded and you went for it, which you did not. Someone earlier said that you probably weren't trained not to identify a threat. I have never been in the military but I am in law enforcement and a firearms instructor. There was a guy in our academy who was prior military and he ND'd a round into the dirt 2 inches from his leg while reaching through the trigger guard to hit the mag release on some weak hand reload drills. No matter his prior training, he didn't follow the 4 safety rules, and I don't believe you would have either if you went for your gun. OP, the comments I and others have made in this thread are to give you our thoughts on your situation, which is what you asked for. Now you may not think this was a big deal, but no one here wants to see the next thread you start stating that you killed your dog, brother, mom, wife, whatever because you thought they were a threat. If you don't want to hear it, don't post threads like this again. P.S. Keep your weapon loaded. It's not really going to work for you if it's not. |
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Quoted: OP, to give thoughts on what you wanted out of this thread, if it were a situation where you needed your gun, you would have likely been killed. Now that you know I can read and comprehend what I am reading, here are the rest of my thoughts on the situation: First, it is a good thing you did not go for your gun because you would have likely killed your brother(providing your "training" kicked in and you charged your weapon. You do train to do so I assume?). As others have said, the military training defense will not hold up in court. Second, you can think all you want that you would have been in a more conscious state if you grabbed the gun, but I disagree. If you didn't wake up by getting up, running toward your brother and getting into a physical altercation with him while yelling verbal commands, why would you wake up after grabbing the gun that was right next to you? Your military training? Instincts? No. You can't possibly know how you would instinctively act if you grabbed a gun in your sleep, because your instincts didn't tell you to grab the gun! Your instincts told you to rush the threat, or in your case, the person who was not a threat. Third, I hope that you invest in some training for self defense situations before you decide you are going to continue to have guns around you. I hope that this was a wake up call for you, recognizing in your original post that you could have shot your brother had the gun been loaded and you went for it, which you did not. Someone earlier said that you probably weren't trained not to identify a threat. I have never been in the military but I am in law enforcement and a firearms instructor. There was a guy in our academy who was prior military and he ND'd a round into the dirt 2 inches from his leg while reaching through the trigger guard to hit the mag release on some weak hand reload drills. No matter his prior training, he didn't follow the 4 safety rules, and I don't believe you would have either if you went for your gun. OP, the comments I and others have made in this thread are to give you our thoughts on your situation, which is what you asked for. Now you may not think this was a big deal, but no one here wants to see the next thread you start stating that you killed your dog, brother, mom, wife, whatever because you thought they were a threat. If you don't want to hear it, don't post threads like this again. P.S. Keep your weapon loaded. It's not really going to work for you if it's not. OP .....put any miss feelings aside and read this at least 3 times.......he is compleatly right.!!!!!!!!! |