Posted: 10/14/2011 9:33:06 AM EDT
EDIT: I am re-writing the question because I did a piss poor job the first time 
Here is the situation. There is a Milt Sparks VM2 for a Sig P220r for sale on ebay. I have a bid in for $125 and I am winning right now, but not by much. If someone out bids me this question is moot, but there hasn't been a lot of interest in the last day or two. I do not yet own a P220 or a P220 Carry, because I have not turned 21 yet (2 weeks to go). I am frantically searching for a carry gun I can afford and a rig to carry it in, and when I placed the bid on the VM2 I though I had found my choice (P220 carry). Now that I am separated from that bid by a couple days, I have since had some doubts about my choice in carry gun. I went to a local gun store today to hold some various 45's and decided that the Sig probably isn't ideal for my body type. What I want to know from anyone that has some first hand experiences is: does the VM2 have properties that allow for comfortable concealment of an otherwise uncomfortable and hard to conceal gun? I know that this sounds lame, but I constantly have been told that your belt and holster rig are what make the difference in a carry rig. If the VM2 is not mythical concealment holster that I got the impression of from this here internet, I will have to turn around and resell the thing. Anyway, kind of a lame question but I just need more information to make a decision. |
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Son, I am disappoint….
My dad actually had bought mags, a holster and ammo for a Glock 21 before he ever bought the gun and it was his first .45 ACP! For me, the VMII isn’t a great holster. Great quality, great craftsmanship, but it just didn’t impress me as a carry holster. I would not buy an $800-900 gun because I got stuck with a $125 holster. You can sell that thing for $125 any day of the week and not be behind anything. For me, the answer here is Glock and MTAC, but then again, I was confused by the question! 
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Son, I am disappoint…. My dad actually had bought mags, a holster and ammo for a Glock 21 before he ever bought the gun and it was his first .45 ACP! For me, the VMII isn’t a great holster. Great quality, great craftsmanship, but it just didn’t impress me as a carry holster. I would not buy an $800-900 gun because I got stuck with a $125 holster. You can sell that thing for $125 any day of the week and not be behind anything. For me, the answer here is Glock and MTAC, but then again, I was confused by the question! Re-wrote it. Were you carrying said G21 in a VM2 when you had your experience with it? |
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Moot. The point is moot, not mute. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And how much did my education cost me  Thanks, fixed it.I'm a training junkie. One thing I've discovered is that classes are a great chance to try out other folks gear and gain first hand experience. Most instructors can set you up with a loaner Glock or something - maybe you can take a class before making your choices? Weapon / holster combos seem to be very individual. It's difficult to draw conclusions from what's worked for others. That said, I'll echo another poster and note that a Glock 19 in a CTAC has worked great for me, nad for most guys in my social group. |
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Moot. The point is moot, not mute. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And how much did my education cost me Thanks, fixed it.I'm a training junkie. One thing I've discovered is that classes are a great chance to try out other folks gear and gain first hand experience. Most instructors can set you up with a loaner Glock or something - maybe you can take a class before making your choices? Weapon / holster combos seem to be very individual. It's difficult to draw conclusions from what's worked for others. That said, I'll echo another poster and note that a Glock 19 in a CTAC has worked great for me, nad for most guys in my social group. Not a bad idea at all. I can take a class near me where you have your choice of many popular brands plus all the ammo for the class for $175. |
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Each person is different as to what gear works for them. So, you're just going to have to try some out. I've only been carrying for 3 years but I've changed my entire setup about 4 times. Don't expect to get it right on your first time. What you said seems to be the only answer I am going to get, and that is perfectly fine with me. It is a good consensus. I guess what I will do is grab the holster now, because it is cheap and save it for another day. I bet one day when the maker retires the value will sky rocker if I keep it unused. |
| Good luck...... You may go through 2 or 10 holsters until you find the one that works for you... If you haven't bought a gun yet, figure that out before you think about holsters. I carry a Glock, and went through all the usual suspect holsters until I found the Mtac. It works for me. May not work for you. Check out the EE here and see of you can score holsters for a good price to try them out. You can always sell them later... |
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Just to add to your consternation, the very best holster in the world won't be comfortable and concealable without a good gun belt to go with it. Agreed. here's a good belt that offers a lot of benefits for an excellent price... http://www.loopbelt.com/ Put your underpants on. Then the holster and this loopbelt. Holster your gun. Get dressed as normal with slacks, jeans, sweats. Wear belts with the pants right on top of the loopbelt. No clips to show if you tuck the shirt in. Go to the bathroom without messing with your gun or holster. The system is independant of your pants and its belt system. The loopbelt works because it isn't trying to hold up the gun AND the pants without cinching the pants down like a potato sack. Gotta be willing to step away from the traditional LEO/Military duty belt mentality to understand why this works. |
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Just to add to your consternation, the very best holster in the world won't be comfortable and concealable without a good gun belt to go with it. Agreed. here's a good belt that offers a lot of benefits for an excellent price... http://www.loopbelt.com/ Put your underpants on. Then the holster and this loopbelt. Holster your gun. Get dressed as normal with slacks, jeans, sweats. Wear belts with the pants right on top of the loopbelt. No clips to show if you tuck the shirt in. Go to the bathroom without messing with your gun or holster. The system is independant of your pants and its belt system. The loopbelt works because it isn't trying to hold up the gun AND the pants without cinching the pants down like a potato sack. Gotta be willing to step away from the traditional LEO/Military duty belt mentality to understand why this works. Trying to picture what you're saying: do you use an OWB holster with this setup? |
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I agree with Tommy...training reveals everything. Flat...you keep promoting this system.....I want to see pictures, videos, draws...Sell it to me.... You are the last poster in the following thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_10/112335_.html On the third page, you will see a post, from a guy who makes traditional holsters... SGB (I think), which links a video showing excactly what concept I'm talking about. Yes, the thread starts out on the smartcarry topic, but progresses into all kinds of good information pertinent to this thread's direction... as well as some Harry-high-school name calling type stuff. I use the loopbelt with an IWB holster (CompTac Spartan Slide w/ M&P9c or 9 full size), but it can be used with a thinner style OWB too. |
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I agree with Tommy...training reveals everything. Flat...you keep promoting this system.....I want to see pictures, videos, draws...Sell it to me.... Unfortunately, I'm slow enough that I had to learn that lesson repeatedly - I got into SCUBA in '91. As soon as I signed up for my basic open water class, I ran out and dropped a wad of money on a wet suit, buoyancy compensator, mask, fins, yadda yadda.Sure enough, when a few months of diving, I began to learn what I really wanted in gear instead of what I'd bought. So in '02, I started to get serious about hand gunning. Ran out right away and bought a slick, fancy 1911, beau coup mags, holsters, yadda yadda. Started taking more advanced classes, and discovered that I wanted an entirely different setup. Fortunately, the learning curve for carbine was slightly less expensive and painful, though I wish I'd subscribed to the 'buy once, cry once' principal then. At least I could recoup most of my money on the lower end carbine i started with when I stepped up to a SLR. So yeah, I advise everyone to get training before gear nowadays. |
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Hey Tommy....it's all good. You got in on it early so that young folks like me could benefit life at the end of the funnel.  Quoted: Quoted: I agree with Tommy...training reveals everything. Flat...you keep promoting this system.....I want to see pictures, videos, draws...Sell it to me.... You are the last poster in the following thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_10/112335_.html On the third page, you will see a post, from a guy who makes traditional holsters... SGB (I think), which links a video showing excactly what concept I'm talking about. Yes, the thread starts out on the smartcarry topic, but progresses into all kinds of good information pertinent to this thread's direction... as well as some Harry-high-school name calling type stuff. I use the loopbelt with an IWB holster (CompTac Spartan Slide w/ M&P9c or 9 full size), but it can be used with a thinner style OWB too. Um yes...I saw his setup...I've seen tons of the pouches. I want to see what you're doing...EXACTLY what you're doing. |
| I won the auction and paid for the VMII. I will wait for it to be delivered, but a reinforced belt (ahhh more money...) and go to the local gun store and ask if I can holster one of their Sig P229/220s. That should tell me all I need to know about the holster. If its unconcealable, I will probably hold onto the holster anyway because one day Milt won't make holsters anymore and it will be a collectible. |
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Hey Tommy....it's all good. You got in on it early so that young folks like me could benefit life at the end of the funnel. Quoted:
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I agree with Tommy...training reveals everything. Flat...you keep promoting this system.....I want to see pictures, videos, draws...Sell it to me.... You are the last poster in the following thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_10/112335_.html On the third page, you will see a post, from a guy who makes traditional holsters... SGB (I think), which links a video showing excactly what concept I'm talking about. Yes, the thread starts out on the smartcarry topic, but progresses into all kinds of good information pertinent to this thread's direction... as well as some Harry-high-school name calling type stuff. I use the loopbelt with an IWB holster (CompTac Spartan Slide w/ M&P9c or 9 full size), but it can be used with a thinner style OWB too. Um yes...I saw his setup...I've seen tons of the pouches. I want to see what you're doing...EXACTLY what you're doing. Um... It really isn't a complex system. I don't have a web hosting account. I'm not interested in setting one up. Sorry. If you have an IWB holster right now... just put your underwear on, then ANY belt. Stiff or not. Any belt will do. Now add your IWB holster and holster your weapon. You will see exactly what I'm doing only I"m doing it with a slim, flexible $10 belt that has a rubber loop and velcro to keep it where it needs to be. Next, put some pants on. ANY pants/shorts, etc... You now can experience the system first hand.
If you buy the loopbelt, you will be working with a non bulky buckle and something really slim. Which works great with your current pants/shorts/sweats. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Hey Tommy....it's all good. You got in on it early so that young folks like me could benefit life at the end of the funnel. Quoted: Quoted: I agree with Tommy...training reveals everything. Flat...you keep promoting this system.....I want to see pictures, videos, draws...Sell it to me.... You are the last poster in the following thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_10/112335_.html On the third page, you will see a post, from a guy who makes traditional holsters... SGB (I think), which links a video showing excactly what concept I'm talking about. Yes, the thread starts out on the smartcarry topic, but progresses into all kinds of good information pertinent to this thread's direction... as well as some Harry-high-school name calling type stuff. I use the loopbelt with an IWB holster (CompTac Spartan Slide w/ M&P9c or 9 full size), but it can be used with a thinner style OWB too. Um yes...I saw his setup...I've seen tons of the pouches. I want to see what you're doing...EXACTLY what you're doing. Um... It really isn't a complex system. I don't have a web hosting account. I'm not interested in setting one up. Sorry. If you have an IWB holster right now... just put your underwear on, then ANY belt. Stiff or not. Any belt will do. Now add your IWB holster and holster your weapon. You will see exactly what I'm doing only I"m doing it with a slim, flexible $10 belt that has a rubber loop and velcro to keep it where it needs to be. Next, put some pants on. ANY pants/shorts, etc... You now can experience the system first hand. If you buy the loopbelt, you will be working with a non bulky buckle and something really slim. Which works great with your current pants/shorts/sweats. Photobucket is free. I've never seen anyone promote this but you. I just want to see your work in action....the way that you do it. |
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Please. Just read this again and address the bolded with your next reply. Otherwise, I'm going to continue with my suspicions that you're trolling in this technical forum.
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Hey Tommy....it's all good. You got in on it early so that young folks like me could benefit life at the end of the funnel. Quoted:
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I agree with Tommy...training reveals everything. Flat...you keep promoting this system.....I want to see pictures, videos, draws...Sell it to me.... You are the last poster in the following thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_10/112335_.html On the third page, you will see a post, from a guy who makes traditional holsters... SGB (I think), which links a video showing excactly what concept I'm talking about. Yes, the thread starts out on the smartcarry topic, but progresses into all kinds of good information pertinent to this thread's direction... as well as some Harry-high-school name calling type stuff. I use the loopbelt with an IWB holster (CompTac Spartan Slide w/ M&P9c or 9 full size), but it can be used with a thinner style OWB too. Um yes...I saw his setup...I've seen tons of the pouches. I want to see what you're doing...EXACTLY what you're doing. Um... It really isn't a complex system. I don't have a web hosting account. I'm not interested in setting one up. Sorry. If you have an IWB holster right now... just put your underwear on, then ANY belt. Stiff or not. Any belt will do. Now add your IWB holster and holster your weapon. You will see exactly what I'm doing only I"m doing it with a slim, flexible $10 belt that has a rubber loop and velcro to keep it where it needs to be. Next, put some pants on. ANY pants/shorts, etc... You now can experience the system first hand.
If you buy the loopbelt, you will be working with a non bulky buckle and something really slim. Which works great with your current pants/shorts/sweats. Innovation comes from a willingness to step outside the box... |
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I went for months reading holster reviews. I finally pulled the trigger on one and haven't been disappointed yet... it's not a Milt Sparks. It's a Crossbreed Supertuck.
If you're wanting to CCW a P220, you're going to need a good belt designed to support the weight of the pistol. Couple that with a good holster and you'll be able to conceal a 5" 1911... I've got a P220 so I know what you're wanting to do... I haven't CCW'ed mine yet. The finish is pristine and I don't know whether I can actually bring myself to holster it... I don't have any problem CCW'ing my P6... but its finish is worn through in places and will be going off to be refinished soon. |
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Quoted: Please. Just read this again and address the bolded with your next reply. Otherwise, I'm going to continue with my suspicions that you're trolling in this technical forum. Innovation comes from a willingness to step outside the box... You make claims that you refuse to support with anything substantial and want to call anyone who challenges you a troll. There's a troll in this thread but it isn't LaRue556 |
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Please. Just read this again and address the bolded with your next reply. Otherwise, I'm going to continue with my suspicions that you're trolling in this technical forum. Innovation comes from a willingness to step outside the box... You make claims that you refuse to support with anything substantial and want to call anyone who challenges you a troll. There's a troll in this thread but it isn't LaRue556 I used the video YOU linked to provide the concept of concealability which comes from no clips showing. The guy in the video YOU linked goes into depth on the advantages of NOT using a traditional LEO/Military duty belt. I provide a link to the belt I'm using for $10 which allows you to do the same thing in the video YOU linked, but save a bunch of cash by using your current IWB holster. And now you claim I haven't provided anything substantial. Other folks understand what I'm doing based on the info you and I provided. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Please. Just read this again and address the bolded with your next reply. Otherwise, I'm going to continue with my suspicions that you're trolling in this technical forum. Innovation comes from a willingness to step outside the box... You make claims that you refuse to support with anything substantial and want to call anyone who challenges you a troll. There's a troll in this thread but it isn't LaRue556 I used the video YOU linked to provide the concept of concealability which comes from no clips showing. The guy in the video YOU linked goes into depth on the advantages of NOT using a traditional LEO/Military duty belt. I provide a link to the belt I'm using for $10 which allows you to do the same thing in the video YOU linked, but save a bunch of cash by using your current IWB holster. And now you claim I haven't provided anything substantial. Other folks understand what I'm doing based on the info you and I provided. That guy in the video is doing something differently than you're suggesting. And even if I tried to do it per your written instructions...I wouldn't know if I had it your way. I simply want to see what you're doing, no reason to be so defensive. I'm just asking for an example. |
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Please. Just read this again and address the bolded with your next reply. Otherwise, I'm going to continue with my suspicions that you're trolling in this technical forum. Innovation comes from a willingness to step outside the box... You make claims that you refuse to support with anything substantial and want to call anyone who challenges you a troll. There's a troll in this thread but it isn't LaRue556 I used the video YOU linked to provide the concept of concealability which comes from no clips showing. The guy in the video YOU linked goes into depth on the advantages of NOT using a traditional LEO/Military duty belt. I provide a link to the belt I'm using for $10 which allows you to do the same thing in the video YOU linked, but save a bunch of cash by using your current IWB holster. And now you claim I haven't provided anything substantial. Other folks understand what I'm doing based on the info you and I provided. That guy in the video is doing something differently than you're suggesting. And even if I tried to do it per your written instructions...I wouldn't know if I had it your way. I simply want to see what you're doing, no reason to be so defensive. [i[I'm just asking for an example.[/i] Yes, he is using the same concept that I'm suggesting. Only he wants you to buy his product. (Don't remember what his price is/was, but it's a lot more than $10.) Here's the video... hopefully, I copied the URL corrrectly. <object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="gJIZWsMW5ZI&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="gJIZWsMW5ZI&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></embed></object> Nope. I can't imbed it like SGB did. All you want is an example? Did you do what I asked in the bolded below? No? Hmmm... If you were serious about wanting an example, you would try it for yourself with your current IWB holster and any belt as I suggested earlier. I don't think you're serious though. Trolling is what I continue to suspect. Quoted:
Please. Just read this again and address the bolded with your next reply. Otherwise, I'm going to continue with my suspicions that you're trolling in this technical forum. Quoted:
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Hey Tommy....it's all good. You got in on it early so that young folks like me could benefit life at the end of the funnel. Quoted:
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I agree with Tommy...training reveals everything. Flat...you keep promoting this system.....I want to see pictures, videos, draws...Sell it to me.... You are the last poster in the following thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_10/112335_.html On the third page, you will see a post, from a guy who makes traditional holsters... SGB (I think), which links a video showing excactly what concept I'm talking about. Yes, the thread starts out on the smartcarry topic, but progresses into all kinds of good information pertinent to this thread's direction... as well as some Harry-high-school name calling type stuff. I use the loopbelt with an IWB holster (CompTac Spartan Slide w/ M&P9c or 9 full size), but it can be used with a thinner style OWB too. Um yes...I saw his setup...I've seen tons of the pouches. I want to see what you're doing...EXACTLY what you're doing. Um... It really isn't a complex system. I don't have a web hosting account. I'm not interested in setting one up. Sorry. If you have an IWB holster right now... just put your underwear on, then ANY belt. Stiff or not. Any belt will do. Now add your IWB holster and holster your weapon. You will see exactly what I'm doing only I"m doing it with a slim, flexible $10 belt that has a rubber loop and velcro to keep it where it needs to be. Next, put some pants on. ANY pants/shorts, etc... You now can experience the system first hand.
If you buy the loopbelt, you will be working with a non bulky buckle and something really slim. Which works great with your current pants/shorts/sweats. Innovation comes from a willingness to step outside the box... |
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Son, I am disappoint…. My dad actually had bought mags, a holster and ammo for a Glock 21 before he ever bought the gun and it was his first .45 ACP! For me, the VMII isn’t a great holster. Great quality, great craftsmanship, but it just didn’t impress me as a carry holster. I would not buy an $800-900 gun because I got stuck with a $125 holster. You can sell that thing for $125 any day of the week and not be behind anything. For me, the answer here is Glock and MTAC, but then again, I was confused by the question! Re-wrote it. Were you carrying said G21 in a VM2 when you had your experience with it? Sorry, now it was ME that wasnt' being clear.  No sir, I was carrying a Glock 19, which I still carry to this day in an MTAC.
The CTAC and MTAC offer the user to adjust the holster to their liking, which is the future of holsters in my opinion. I'll never go back. Now the VMII is on the right track with the belt loops being spread out from the holster body. If they added adjustable loops I think they' be headed in the right direction. |