Posted: 4/3/2011 4:48:33 AM EDT
| Just a quick question for all of you. I am a retail manager, and will be occasionally opening and closing the building by myself. Anyone have a good way I could descretely ask someone in the company if CCW is allowed? I've looked through all the policy's and cant seem to find anything. I want to carry at the times when I will be in the building alone just for that extra security. At the same time, I don't want to end up losing my job if the SHTF and I use my weapon and they find out after the dust settles... What does everyone think? |
|
If there's not a policy about it, it must be OK . . . (is the building posted)
Concealed is concealed. Don't ask, don't tell. Seriously, what is a bigger concern for you: The boss's disapproval if you shoot a robber or being made dead by a robber because you're standing there holding the keys and nothing else? |
|
Do you have an employee handbook? Is your employer's policy on firearms in there? Is there any official written material originating from your company that says that firearms aren't allowed?
If the answer to all of the above is no, I'd simply carry and not tell anyone about it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's retail. You'll get another job. www.smartcarry.com No one will know but you. The way it should be. Wish I had that kind of optimism. Even in retail, management jobs can be tough to get. Time to think more of yourself and set your sights a bit higher. Get the smartcarry, don't tell anyone, and the only way your co-workers / bosses / company will know is if you have to use it to preserve a life. If you don't have a compact gun. Get one. Trim the smartcarry down to fit it and put your CCW licence in the back pouch. If you can't draw the outline, cut, and re-sew the smartcarry yourself... bring it to a shoe repair guy and have him do it. |
|
If you simply must have an answer then just ask and they will probably say no.
I work for a small business. CCW has never been brought up and I have carried every day there for going on six years and no one has noticed because no one knows. The boss likes guns and hunting but that doesn't mean he would like me carrying on the job. Unless you have to go through metal detectors or get frisked everyday for work, concealed means concealed. If you have a good carry system, you will never be found out. Just my $.02 |
|
Quoted:
If there's not a policy about it, it must be OK . . . (is the building posted) Concealed is concealed. Don't ask, don't tell. Seriously, what is a bigger concern for you: The boss's disapproval if you shoot a robber or being made dead by a robber because you're standing there holding the keys and nothing else? First post and all that jaz 
|
|
Quoted:
Do you have an employee handbook? Is your employer's policy on firearms in there? Is there any official written material originating from your company that says that firearms aren't allowed? If the answer to all of the above is no, I'd simply carry and not tell anyone about it. +1 If you have to ask, the answer will be no. Concealed is concealed. |
|
Quoted:
Judging you solely on your mindset/thought process : Don't carry ANYWHERE. You(in my HUMBLE opinion) are combat ineffective. 
I know ALOT of people who can't perform their JOB properly because they FEAR FOR THEIR JOB. That is no way to be son.  I appreciate your insights and opinions, but please do not presume to know whether I cannot do my job or not. I certainly do not fear for my job. I do my job and I do it well. I am only asking about this topic because there will be occasions where I will be the sole person in the building and I want to feel as though I have a means to defend myself. Thank you. |
|
I would do up a proposal for the big bosses showing them both sides of the issue and then finish it off with your recommendation and why If they deny it, I would still carry realizing if you have to use it, you will lose your job {but at least you will be alive} If they deny it, I would also look into personal liability insurance in case the little fuck you shoot decides to sue you and your employer won't cover it because you violated policy |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Judging you solely on your mindset/thought process : Don't carry ANYWHERE. You(in my HUMBLE opinion) are combat ineffective.
I know ALOT of people who can't perform their JOB properly because they FEAR FOR THEIR JOB. That is no way to be son. I appreciate your insights and opinions, but please do not presume to know whether I cannot do my job or not. I certainly do not fear for my job. I do my job and I do it well. I am only asking about this topic because there will be occasions where I will be the sole person in the building and I want to feel as though I have a means to defend myself. Thank you. You are worried about what the company thinks more than what you know is right for your life. Otherwise, you'd just carry concealed anyway without asking anyone - internet or otherwise - because there isn't a pat down or metal detectors. Those are the facts that can't be denied and it's something you should think about before hitting the 'submit' button again on this thread. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Judging you solely on your mindset/thought process : Don't carry ANYWHERE. You(in my HUMBLE opinion) are combat ineffective.
I know ALOT of people who can't perform their JOB properly because they FEAR FOR THEIR JOB. That is no way to be son. I appreciate your insights and opinions, but please do not presume to know whether I cannot do my job or not. I certainly do not fear for my job. I do my job and I do it well. I am only asking about this topic because there will be occasions where I will be the sole person in the building and I want to feel as though I have a means to defend myself. Thank you. I'm sorry I knew you would take offense and I don't want to fight....Seriously.
You ASKED.As I stated in my first sentence,I am basing my assumptions/presumptions("judging you") on your concerns. I don't PRESUME to know you or PA law but if the above in red is true than your first concern wouldmay have been prosecution not job loss. Can you see where I may have gotten my original vibe or no?Again I apologize. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Judging you solely on your mindset/thought process : Don't carry ANYWHERE. You(in my HUMBLE opinion) are combat ineffective.
I know ALOT of people who can't perform their JOB properly because they FEAR FOR THEIR JOB. That is no way to be son. I appreciate your insights and opinions, but please do not presume to know whether I cannot do my job or not. I certainly do not fear for my job. I do my job and I do it well. I am only asking about this topic because there will be occasions where I will be the sole person in the building and I want to feel as though I have a means to defend myself. Thank you. I'm sorry I knew you would take offense and I don't want to fight....Seriously.
You ASKED.As I stated in my first sentence,I am basing my assumptions/presumptions("judging you") on your concerns. I don't PRESUME to know you or PA law but if the above in red is true than your first concern wouldmay have been prosecution not job loss. Can you see where I may have gotten my original vibe or no?Again I apologize. Its all good. I understand. I understand everyone's input in this. My main concerns are two fold. 1. supporting my family, which cannot be done if I lose my job, and 2, supporting my family, which cannot be done if I lose my life being robbed or something stupid. I just wanted opinions from those who may have experience with this. It sounds like my best option is to carry if I feel its necessary, and simply ensure no one knows about it. I will just have to take the risk of losing my job if there happens to be a SHTF moment. Thank you all for your imput, I am also sorry, if I took offense to things where it may not have been necessary. |
|
If you do your part, the only way an employer should find out you were carrying is if you pop someone in self defense. If it gets to that point, whats more important, your life or a paycheck? ETA: My employer not only prohibits carry in the policy handbook, but they recently posted 30.06 signs after a few guys were less than discreet about their carry.
|
|
Quoted:
If there's not a policy about it, it must be OK . . . (is the building posted) Concealed is concealed. Don't ask, don't tell. Seriously, what is a bigger concern for you: The boss's disapproval if you shoot a robber or being made dead by a robber because you're standing there holding the keys and nothing else? This. If you don't see it on paper & no one has said anything about it. Carry away. Play dumb. |
|
in 2 pages I know its been said in every post but keep your trap shut. If you cant find anything in the material then its not forbidden. There is no use in opening that box. Get a good setup and go on about your business. My handbook says nothing about CCW's and no, I did not ask.
Your not doing anything illegal and if you put your job (replacable) before your life (irreplacable) I dont know what to tell you. Maybe CC isnt for you... Quoted:
I would do up a proposal for the big bosses showing them both sides of the issue and then finish it off with your recommendation and why If they deny it, I would still carry realizing if you have to use it, you will lose your job {but at least you will be alive} If they deny it, I would also look into personal liability insurance in case the little fuck you shoot decides to sue you and your employer won't cover it because you violated policy In some state (including Texas) if you are given verbal warning not to bring a firearm in the premesis and you do so anyways your looking at a violation of 30.06 and face jail time. I dont know what the rules are in the OP's state but its far better to be found out and reprimanded vs being told "no", you do it anyways, and then get caught. |
|
Well you're probably not going to want to hear my experience, but I got fired from my job 2 years ago for carrying. The corporate office sent somebody up to do it. They told me a customer noticed and called corporate to complain. The manager himself didn't even know about it. I read the employee policy book. Twice. There wasn't anything in it I could find that said anything about it at all, so I had been carrying for over 2 years at that point. Well, guess what? The booklet they gave to employees with the company policies in it was an abridged version of the full length book that sat on a top shelf in the back room gathering dust. Even the corporate guy took 5 minutes to find the one sentence written about it in the middle of the book, wedged between paragraphs about other random minutia about policy. It basically said "No unauthorized weapons allowed". When I asked if my CCW permit meant I was authorized by law, he said no. Well, his company, his rules I guess. The manager even asked if they could just tell me not to bring it back anymore, but corporate was firm. Said it was the same as if I had been caught drinking at work. Oh well. By the way, I was an assistant manager at a sports store. It was only a part time job, and I was only making $8.50/hr, so it wasn't a huge loss. Really, more embarrasing than anything. And I didn't like the fact that I left the manager short staffed, but it wasn't like it was my decision. And 5 months later my Guard unit mobilized to go to Iraq anyway. And did I mention the cops they brought along with them? Yep, apparently "Employee with a gun" will get a pretty enthusiastic response from the local police force. Even though they checked my record before they got there. And saw I didn't even have a speeding ticket in my background. And knew I was completely legal. And made sure to tell me while they were there. After they had disarmed me, for everybody's safety. Like I said, embarrasing. The corporate guy even thanked me for handling everything so well, as he escorted me out of the store. Even said I wasn't forbidden to come back on the premises, just not as an employee. Nice of him I guess.
|
|
Quoted:
Well you're probably not going to want to hear my experience, but I got fired from my job 2 years ago for carrying. The corporate office sent somebody up to do it. They told me a customer noticed and called corporate to complain. The manager himself didn't even know about it. I read the employee policy book. Twice. There wasn't anything in it I could find that said anything about it at all, so I had been carrying for over 2 years at that point. Well, guess what? The booklet they gave to employees with the company policies in it was an abridged version of the full length book that sat on a top shelf in the back room gathering dust. Even the corporate guy took 5 minutes to find the one sentence written about it in the middle of the book, wedged between paragraphs about other random minutia about policy. It basically said "No unauthorized weapons allowed". When I asked if my CCW permit meant I was authorized by law, he said no. Well, his company, his rules I guess. The manager even asked if they could just tell me not to bring it back anymore, but corporate was firm. Said it was the same as if I had been caught drinking at work. Oh well. By the way, I was an assistant manager at a sports store. It was only a part time job, and I was only making $8.50/hr, so it wasn't a huge loss. Really, more embarrasing than anything. And I didn't like the fact that I left the manager short staffed, but it wasn't like it was my decision. And 5 months later my Guard unit mobilized to go to Iraq anyway. And did I mention the cops they brought along with them? Yep, apparently "Employee with a gun" will get a pretty enthusiastic response from the local police force. Even though they checked my record before they got there. And saw I didn't even have a speeding ticket in my background. And knew I was completely legal. And made sure to tell me while they were there. After they had disarmed me, for everybody's safety. Like I said, embarrasing. The corporate guy even thanked me for handling everything so well, as he escorted me out of the store. Even said I wasn't forbidden to come back on the premises, just not as an employee. Nice of him I guess. How were you carrying? |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Well you're probably not going to want to hear my experience, but I got fired from my job 2 years ago for carrying. The corporate office sent somebody up to do it. They told me a customer noticed and called corporate to complain. The manager himself didn't even know about it. I read the employee policy book. Twice. There wasn't anything in it I could find that said anything about it at all, so I had been carrying for over 2 years at that point. Well, guess what? The booklet they gave to employees with the company policies in it was an abridged version of the full length book that sat on a top shelf in the back room gathering dust. Even the corporate guy took 5 minutes to find the one sentence written about it in the middle of the book, wedged between paragraphs about other random minutia about policy. It basically said "No unauthorized weapons allowed". When I asked if my CCW permit meant I was authorized by law, he said no. Well, his company, his rules I guess. The manager even asked if they could just tell me not to bring it back anymore, but corporate was firm. Said it was the same as if I had been caught drinking at work. Oh well. By the way, I was an assistant manager at a sports store. It was only a part time job, and I was only making $8.50/hr, so it wasn't a huge loss. Really, more embarrasing than anything. And I didn't like the fact that I left the manager short staffed, but it wasn't like it was my decision. And 5 months later my Guard unit mobilized to go to Iraq anyway. And did I mention the cops they brought along with them? Yep, apparently "Employee with a gun" will get a pretty enthusiastic response from the local police force. Even though they checked my record before they got there. And saw I didn't even have a speeding ticket in my background. And knew I was completely legal. And made sure to tell me while they were there. After they had disarmed me, for everybody's safety. Like I said, embarrasing. The corporate guy even thanked me for handling everything so well, as he escorted me out of the store. Even said I wasn't forbidden to come back on the premises, just not as an employee. Nice of him I guess. How were you carrying? IWB, with a fleece Underarmor pullover as a cover garmet. The only thing I could come up with was I must have flashed at somepoint when I reached for something high on a shelf. To this day, I really don't know when or how. It was still jacket weather, so I was still carrying a full size Glock. |
|
Thanks for the explanation.
Sucks, but traditional carry methods are definitely going to alert a few folks. When it's the wrong folks, it's gonna hurt. Maybe only a little, maybe more so. And if you care about it hurting, and there are methods to really conceal, then those methods should be used... or leave the gun locked up and off your person. |
|
Quoted:
Well you're probably not going to want to hear my experience, but I got fired from my job 2 years ago for carrying. Thanks for sharing that. Fact is, there are risks if you carry and risks if you don't. Everyone's got to evaluate his own situation, make a decision, and live with the risks. There's no perfect solution. ETA: Back on topic, if you're OK with not carrying if the answer is no, then go ahead and ask. If you think you might want to carry anyway, then don't ask and keep quiet about it. I don't know of any discrete way to get explicit permission. |
I had an employee ask a couple of weeks ago. I told him "concealed means concealed". I learned that saying here... 
Even as pro-gun as I am I'd be lying if I said I wasn't just a little concerned about the potential liabililty of officially granting permission to employees to carry. Of course I've never stepped foot in my business unarmed... not even once... and really I wouldn't mind having another gunner on my team should the worst case happen. I find it extremely unlikely that many companies will grant permission if asked so my vote is to just do it and be sure to never tell anyone. |
|
Quoted:
Judging you solely on your mindset/thought process : Don't carry ANYWHERE. You(in my HUMBLE opinion) are combat ineffective.
I know ALOT of people who can't perform their JOB properly because they FEAR FOR THEIR JOB. That is no way to be son. Gosh. Can't imagine why anyone would take THAT personally. Judging solely on your comments ... I'd say you tend to jump to conclusions. I don't have a clue whether you're "combat ineffective." WTF do I know, but ... I'd say the OP had a legit question. It's always a bit surprising to me when the same people who always want to consider the bottom line of surviving a gunfight ... give so little thought to being found civilly or criminally liable after. The guy opens/closes the store. A jury will say he definitely "should" know company policies. What if there is a prohibition that his (somewhat) cursory search hasn't found ? What if the company's liability insurance expressly prohibits firearms ? Damn easy for you to paint him with a wide and (IMHO) hasty brush. It won't be your job or financial savings spent on his legal defense. Rant off. colema62 ... weigh the benefits of being on solid ground with company policy. How bad do you need the job if the bosses turn you down? Can you afford to be "on your own" post shooting ? If you really consider an armed confrontation likely, it might be time to look for a different position. Good on you for asking questions. Stay safe |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Judging you solely on your mindset/thought process : Don't carry ANYWHERE. You(in my HUMBLE opinion) are combat ineffective.
I know ALOT of people who can't perform their JOB properly because they FEAR FOR THEIR JOB. That is no way to be son. Gosh. Can't imagine why anyone would take THAT personally. Judging solely on your comments ... I'd say you tend to jump to conclusions. I don't have a clue whether you're "combat ineffective." WTF do I know, but ... I'd say the OP had a legit question. It's always a bit surprising to me when the same people who always want to consider the bottom line of surviving a gunfight ... give so little thought to being found civilly or criminally liable after. The guy opens/closes the store. A jury will say he definitely "should" know company policies. What if there is a prohibition that his (somewhat) cursory search hasn't found ? What if the company's liability insurance expressly prohibits firearms ? Damn easy for you to paint him with a wide and (IMHO) hasty brush. It won't be your job or financial savings spent on his legal defense. Rant off. colema62 ... weigh the benefits of being on solid ground with company policy. How bad do you need the job if the bosses turn you down? Can you afford to be "on your own" post shooting ? If you really consider an armed confrontation likely, it might be time to look for a different position. Good on you for asking questions. Stay safe I really appreciate your comment. You did well to put everything in perspective. Thank you again for your insight. |