Posted: 9/3/2004 4:27:30 PM EDT
| I do not know much about 1911s, but have shot a few and lke them quite a bit. I am looking into getting my CCW, and want a 1911 for carry. I do not know what to get. A friend told me to get an officer's model, but couldn't come up with any manufacturers other than Colt. What wopuld you guys recommend? I am about 5'8" and about 160 lbs, with a gut that hangs out about an inch. |
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I carry a Colt Defender, It's slightly smaller than the officers model. Gotta love the 1911. Get a good IWB holster. Yoy can find this subject discussed to extremes at www.1911forum.com ETA: oops, my bad, I didn't answer y our question. Kimber has the most market share in the 1911 platform. There is also Springfiels Armory, Para Ordinance, STI, Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown yadda yadda yadda. Go to 1911forum.com. ETA-II: Look out for the Nazi moderator! |
I'm about your size and weight...(a bit more belly tho) and I find that a full-size, even a lightweight 1911 pulls my pants down. This may be an issue for you too. Especially if you have a flat butt. That said, I have a Kimber Ultra Carry in a Milt Sparks Versa Max (like the pic above) that I recommend. PS - The Ultra Carry is quite accurate and reliable. |
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Looks like what you're really asking is what TYPE of 1911 to carry, not what brand. Full-sized is exactly that--5" barrel. Much heavier than all the others, but very controllable. I sometimes carry one of these, and they tend to be heavier and harder to conceal or wear for a long period of time than other 1911 types. Commander size usually has a 4.25" barrel with a full-sized frame. From a concealability standpoint, the short barrel makes it easier to sit/stand/etc, but the full-sized frame tends to print more. An officers model usually has a 3.5" barrel and a shorter frame (about 1/2" shorter--usually carries one less round in the magazine). This is the model I usually carry, and when compared to the full size there's a dramatic difference in weight, comfort and concealibility. Some commander's and officer's models have alloy frames (rather than steel), which makes them even lighter than mine (it's got a steel frame). There are even shorter barrel lengths out there--I think Kimber's ultra compact runs in at 3"--but I don't think there are any shorter frames than the officer's produced. So, besides dimensionally, what are the differences? As I mentioned, the weight is a big deal. You're talking about a 1.5" difference in barrel, slide, and guide rod between the full-size and the officers, as well as a shorter frame. But, that weight reduction comes at a price, namely accuracy and recoil. A good 1911 won't show a lot of difference accuracy-wise, but the loss of 30% of your sight radius does make a difference. The lighter weight and shorter barrel will also generate more felt recoil. Another consideration is grips. I've got fairly big hands, and I found the shorter grip of my officer's model caused me to not get a good grip on it when I shot. I got finger-groove grips to fix that problem, and to mitigate the felt recoil, or you can buy something like the Springfield V10, which has a ported barrel and slide to help. And nothing but lots of rounds downrange in practice will help you gain accuracy. As far as concealibility, WHERE you put it on your body, and how you dress, are just as important as what you carry. It's taken me about two years to settle on a good wardrobe/pistol/belt/position combination that works for me. Experiment around the house first, until you get comfortable with it. My personal combo is a Colt 1991 Compact (officer's size), with a Milt Sparks Summer Special holster at the 3:00 position, using a Galco gun belt and an untucked, oversize shirt (usually polo or Hawaiian in the summer, or flannel in the winter). |
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Thanks for all the help, I was really asking what type and where to get it. Thanks for the description of the types limaxray. I had the officer's model in mind, not the commander. Does the loss of 1 1/2" of brrel pull the 45's performance way down or is it barely noticeable? (I do not know much about the cartridge either) I've small-medium size hands (ei I can put small gloves on barely, but mediums are snug enough). Damn no ass thing, how light do I have to go to not have my pantsd at my ankle? or is it a balancing act? The only thing that I have carried, and it was only for a couple hours was a Beretta 92 type L, in the pocket, and that was to say the least interesting. 
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I don't think you'll lose that much performance out of a 3.5 vs. 5" barrel...one web site I looked at said a Federal Hydrashok 185 gr. goes 1027fps out of the 5", 1011fps out of the 4.25", and 934fps out of a 3.0". With quality ammo, it shouldn't make a difference what the barrel length is. I usually carry the Federal 185 gr Hydrashoks, but I'm starting to look into the frangible ammunition, since I do worry about overpenetration (I live in a crowded part of Northern Virginia). As for the pants issue, the first thing you need to do, BEFORE you select a holster, is get a quality gun belt. I spent almost two years bitching about the fact that my pistols were sagging, pulling my pants down, uncomfortable, shifting around, etc., until I figured out I was just slapping them on whatever belt I happened to be wearing. They're not cheap, but they are WELL worth it. You'll find that a good belt will help support the weight of the pistol WITHOUT having to have your belt so tight you lose the feelings in your legs. After the belt, you can figure out what holster will put the gun at exactly the position and angle you want it at. As for where to get what you want, I would suggest you find someone who is willing to let you shoot a 1911 of each type so you can get a feel for them. You may decide you prefer the Commander frame over the officers, or you may decide the officers model is exactly what you need, or you may decide you don't like to shoot either of them and you go for a Sig, or a S&W snubbie revolver, etc. Once you decide on a pistol, I'd see if someone is selling something at your local gun store or (if they allow it) thru the classified ads in your local paper. And, there's always the equipment exchange here on ARF.com. Remember, the goal here is to carry a pistol that you are comfortable SHOOTING, then comfortable carrying. If you can't shoot straight with it, leave it at home! |
| Thanks for all the help. I am starting feel like I am getting irritating to those of you reading and responding to this, but I still have to ask. So for a belt I should go for a Milt Sparks? That's some expensive leather, but then again I wasn't expecting any of this to be cheap especially when I started with saying 1911. And is there any major advantage (or disavantage) between any of the holsters from them? |
Milt Sparks, Galco, Mitch Rosen, Alessi, Kramer--any of these companies have quality leather gun belts. I bought a Galco, cost me about $80. The key is to make sure it's wide enough to fit the belt loops of any pants you would wear, and it's stiff enough to not sag when a holster gets put on it. I personally think the Milt Sparks are the Mercedes of gun leather, but Galco and Alessi are equal quality but cheaper price. As for the holsters themselves, where do you want to carry it on your body and how? Here's where the choices get really big! - Do you want inside the waist band or outside? - In front of the hip, on the hip, or behind the hip? (Read THIS on why you shouldn't carry in the middle or small of your back) - High or low on the belt line? (the Galco Royal Guard holds my 1911 up higher towards my ribs, while the Milt Sparks Summer Special keeps it lower towards the belt. I have long monkey-arms, so it's easier to draw from the lower position for me. I also liked the Milt Sparks because it has a piece of leather between the hammer and yur ribs; the Galco doesn't.) Unfortunately, most everyone here would agree that it takes several holster purchases before you finally settle on the one you like. I must have bought six or seven different brands, styles and types before I settled on the Summer Special, because that's what works for me. Dry-run drawing an "air pistol" (made by the makers of the "air guitar") from the different positions to find the one that seems most comfortable to you, then start with a holster from that position. That's what worked for me; of course, your mileage may vary. And, feel free to ask lots of questions here--that's what boards like this are for! |
| I carry two 1911's. A Colt Commander steel frame and a Springfield Armory Micro Compact. I carry the Micro Compact almost year round except winter. I use a Galco and Alessi Leather. Wilson mags. The Micro has factory mags that hold 6 but Wilson has 7 rounders. I like it, but that's me. |
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High-quality leather belts are pretty pricey these days. That being said I haven't worn a leather belt in years now, for more than an hour or two. (weddings & funerals). I ALWAYS wear a belt from The Wilderness. For work, I wear a 1.75" and I have 1.5" belts for everything else. YMMV |
Dang it, I wish you hadn't posted that picture.....now I want one! |
| I did forget to mention that I was thinking of IWB groin or strongside front hip because my hips aren't thick enough to conceal anything and I have heard many stories of paralysis from SOB carry. I usually wear jeans and a t-shirt, but would probably have to start wearing a heavier shirt, or under shirt, etc. I'm looking at the Kimber Compact, the 1991 Compact and the Warthog. I am going to the range this weekend with a friend to try out some his 1911s, I figure it's better to buy a case of beer and offer to pay for ammo than to get stuck with a pistol I hate. I think he has a Colt 1991, some Colt commander, a Kimber and a STI something. So many options, I need to redirect more money to buying new guns. This money is coming from what I was saving to buy a new 92 Compact, since I had to sell the last one a few months ago, and still regret doing that. |
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Carrying concealed will DEFINITELY affect your wardrobe budget. For IWB, your pants should be about 2" larger than what you normally wear. This gives you enough room to put the pistol in there without cutting into your gut. Trust me--much more pleasant to get baggier pants! You'll also need different shirts. I go with either polo or Hawaiian shirts. I found that dark colors and/or bold patterns break up the outline of the pistol better than solids, and the material of polo shirts works better than the knit cotton of a t-shirt. Shirts should be long enough so when you reach over your head you don't flash the pistol, and loose enough so the pistol doesn't print every time you bend over. Personally, I love the wintertime. I put a t-shirt on, tuck a pistol into the waistband, and throw a flannel shirt on over that. I look like a Nirvana groupie, but the pattern and thickness of flannel does a great job of hiding my CCW. I've heard of people carrying at the groin with a Thunderwear pouch or similar, and I even own one, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Draw times are REALLY slow, and while it makes me look like I'm carrying 10 lbs of sausage in my pants, it still makes me nervous to have a loaded weapon near my "loaded weapon," if you know what I mean!  Once again, though, this is just what works for me; figure out what works for you and GO with it! |
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A lot of good advice, and a lot of experience to draw from here. The only bit of advice I would add is to shoot the hell out of the gun/ammo combo you decide on for carry. You absolutely must feel 100% confident in whatever gun/ammo you decide on. Historically there have been many complaints about the reliability of an out of the box 1911. I do not think that is generally the belief today, but guns /safeties are mechanical devices that can and do fail. There are/were a few reasons for those beliefs. The 1911s I have/use/carry have all been heavily modified by a very good gunsmith. I have confidence in him and those guns, but never buy a gun, shoot it a few times and call it good to go. Try to put at least a 1,000 rds. through it. Make sure you buy good quality mags. bargains are not bargains if your life depends on one and it fails. Likewise, your ammo should be top quality, and practice with the same stuff you intend to carry. A gun fight will happen very quickly, and usually at very close range. Accuracy in any carry gun can be over stressed. You do not want target grade accuracy. 1911 accuracy out of the box is good at 2-3 inches at 25yds. If someone tries to convince you that your slide should be tightened and you already know it will shoot 2-3", walk away. Just my .02 worth. 
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thunderwear sucks. only use it if you absolutely have to have your shirt tucked in with no covering garment. you'd be amazed at how big a weapon a small person can conceal in an iwb holster. a shorter barrell is gonna give you a LOT more muzzle flip. took me YEARS longer to double tap a officers..... |
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I am currently carrying a Kimber Compact, officers length frame and 4" slide. For me it is more comfortable than the shorter officer's slide. The shorter slides dig into my hip more. Conversely the 5" Gov Model slide is similarly uncomfortable for me. Your experiences my vary... . The best all around choice for me is IWB. Pretty much every thing I choose to CCW is carried this way. The Officers butt is ~3/8" shorter than a Gov model's or a Commander's. With standard magazine, no bumpers-flush fit, the difference in concealablilty is negligible for me. Your experiences may vary... . It really is all about a top quality holster and belt combo. I went the budget route and eventually learned.... I like Milt Sparks products. There fancier holsters out there but Milt Sparks products are built for performance above all else. |
I'm a sig guy, but this pic gives me a chubby! |
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With 45 ACP you loose 50 fps with every inch of barrel you loose. So with a 3 inch barrel and 230 gr, you are down to 750 fps or so. So I would suggest either +P 230 or 185 gr HP for ammo. Again, I have had some bad luck with sub 4 inch 1911's. Slide speed is too high. |
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I haven't carried my Kimber Classic yet. I have carried my Glock30 which might equate in size and weight to the smaller 1911's ? I have tried the Thunderwear type carry and I like it. I actually like my homemade versions better. With this type of carry, I don't need a tight belt or oversized pants. I have learned to draw pretty quickly with a two-handed motion...left hand pressing barrel upwards while right hand reaches down obtaining a grip about the belt-line. One-handed is slower though. I have really liked my GALCO leather. I'm currently having El Paso Saddlery build me a holster for my G30 and I'm probably going to have them do the same for my 1911. Here's what I have coming: Glock30 https://secure.aaa-servers.com/epsaddlery.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=65&PHPSESSID=c84b9ddced286d9156d3f168fe551385 S&W642 https://secure.aaa-servers.com/epsaddlery.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=64&PHPSESSID=3e2564ea32eedf9b0046b155d7b96fae |
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Another thing to consider is the frame of the gun and what it's made of. The Kimber Pro CDP above is aluminum, my Kimber Eclipse Pro has a steel frame. I personally think both are fine, but I like the added weight of my steel frame. This will affect carry comfort and to a small degree the amount of felt recoil when shot. Is there someplace you can rent guns? I took a few hours and rented a bunch of 1911 types before buying. I loved it! When going to a 3" barrel some people will tell you that a 1911 of that size will not be reliable for a defensive gun. I tend to call BS on that but I'm not an expert, I suggest you ask around on that. A good gun belt is key, no point in spending lots of money on a Milt Sparks holster and getting a flimsy belt. My Sparks holster w/ my Kimber are amazingly comfortabl, I highly recommend his products. |
I did consider this, that's why I chose the aluminum frame model. about 1,000 rds in a 3 day class and I didn't mind the recoil a bit I went with the Mitch Rosen Express setup for carry, works great. As stated, get a sturdy carry belt. |
I like the easier to conceal grip with a 4" bbl from Kimber. Definitely high on my list of warmer season carry possibilities. I just wish the only finish offered wasn't Stainless (without going to the shop). |
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im in florida so "winter" doesnt happen. Carrry IWB, behind the hip. You do need your pants a little bigger, since every pant is different take the gun with you and try it out. You have to be able to wear the pants with or without the gun. i easlily carry with just t-shirts. I have found that in FL undershirts actually hurt ya wrt to a CCW. But that is my experience. This was said already but just make sure that when you raise your arms or bend over your gun doesnt flash. a good belt is paramount! companies stated about cover it. i would suggest a Kimber 5" or 4"(i prefer the 5") with an aluminium frame for weight. I have a CDP, they are dehorned and very nice to shoot. dont like the two-tone but thats easily fixed. The Ed Brown pictured on page 1 is my absolute favorite style for Conceal Carry but i do not own one nor do i know if they are good pistols. Kimber is great right out of the box. i have Heinie Slant Pro sights. They have small over-under tritium dots - i like much better than the three dot system. I have two holsters i know and love. The Milt Sparks VMII and the Wilson Combat Featherweight IWB. I like the Wilson better but the milt sparks is a great holster too. good luck |