Posted: 10/7/2010 9:24:18 AM EDT
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I plan on carrying 15+1 in my G19. Do I need an extra mag? I always figured if I couldn't solve it in 15+1, I am either against a superior amount of numbers (riot), or am against armored assailants, or someone who probably would have shot me before I drew anyways as they apparently planned well enough to have me expend all 16 rounds without stopping them. They probably brought a shotgun or rifle. I'm screwed anyway.
To me, a handgun is a quick solution to a quick problem. A complex, big problem, requires a big response––and a handgun isn't it––running is probably best there, unless macho is more important than survival to you. Is my thinking wrong? |
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I plan on carrying 15+1 in my G19. Do I need an extra mag? I always figured if I couldn't solve it in 15+1, I am either against a superior amount of numbers (riot), or am against armored assailants, or someone who probably would have shot me before I drew anyways as they apparently planned well enough to have me expend all 16 rounds without stopping them. They probably brought a shotgun or rifle. I'm screwed anyway. To me, a handgun is a quick solution to a quick problem. A complex, big problem, requires a big response––and a handgun isn't it––running is probably best there, unless macho is more important than survival to you. Is my thinking wrong? Yes, for several reasons. First, the mindset of "if I can't solve it in X number of rounds/words/steps/blows/whatever I'm screwed" is self-defeating and not really conducive to settling a potential conflict, either before it gets to a use of actual force or after. Secondly, the biggest single point of failure for a modern semi-auto is the magazine––be it magazine malfunction, or inadvertent dropping of the mag under a stress situation. Thirdly, in most gunfights, by which I mean encounters where two or more people are actively firing at one another, most people (as JW is about to post, I'm sure,) fire about 4 rounds a second, which is not a lot of time of shooting. Fourthly, the oft-quoted "average gunfight takes 3.5 rounds," is, like many statistics––a useless figure (or, as Sam Clements would have put it, a lie.) That figure is taken from LE shootings tracked by the FBI, and in the majority of police shootings, only a single round is fired, usually striking no one, after which one party flees or surrenders, or the officer realises that he is firing at someone he shouldn't be firing at and stops. All of these single shot encounters get tallied up with all the actual gunfights, and the number of rounds fired in total is divided by the total number of shooting incidents, yielding this disturbingly often recited, and completely meaningless, average. Taking a break, be back with more... |
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Here's a couple real world examples of gunfights:
One armed robber versus two police officers at my department: Armed robber fired 11 rounds, striking no one, at the same time that the two officers each emptied their Beretta 92, for a total of 30 shots fired by them. One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Had the officers had no reloads, and had the armed robber had a friend or two along, this could have had bad consequences for the officers. And before anyone points out that LE is more likely to encounter a situation giving rise to the need to use lethal force––-that's a point, to a point. LE in general is charged with the apprehension of criminals, and therefore is, in general, more likely to encounter them in day to day life, but by that same token, LE is not only more equipped to deal with them (vests, less lethal options, radios for instant communication to a lot of people dressed the same, etc.,) but most criminals are aware of LE's general state of equipment. This means that your average crook, who, despite the thug music claiming bravado, is more inclined to run than to engage where LE is concerned, and even groups of thugs with one who is prepared to engage LE tend to melt away upon a response from LE, even if the one or two who had the balls to engage continue to fight. Not so much when attacking a regular Joe––-not only is more and greater force likely, but the group that was on the brink of melting away at the outset of the fight with LE is instead on the brink of charging in to assist to with the assault when facing a non-LE type. ETA: I promised a couple, and only gave one: Pursuing a fleeing armed robber, who then began shooting at me and my partner. I fired back at him, I thought 3 rounds or so, but it turned out to be 8. The salient point here is that despite training and mindset, once the rounds start flying at you, or you otherwise become in fear for your life, the single over-riding thought going through your head, if you can even articulate one, is an intense desire to make the Bad Things stop, and stop RIght Now, and to that end you will pull the little lever that makes a loud noise as fast as you can and as much as you can until the Bad Things either go away or you have no more rounds. |
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Here's a couple real world examples of gunfights: One armed robber versus two police officers at my department: Armed robber fired 11 rounds, striking no one, at the same time that the two officers each emptied their Beretta 92, for a total of 30 shots fired by them. One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Had the officers had no reloads, and had the armed robber had a friend or two along, this could have had bad consequences for the officers. And before anyone points out that LE is more likely to encounter a situation giving rise to the need to use lethal force––-that's a point, to a point. LE in general is charged with the apprehension of criminals, and therefore is, in general, more likely to encounter them in day to day life, but by that same token, LE is not only more equipped to deal with them (vests, less lethal options, radios for instant communication to a lot of people dressed the same, etc.,) but most criminals are aware of LE's general state of equipment. This means that your average crook, who, despite the thug music claiming bravado, is more inclined to run than to engage where LE is concerned, and even groups of thugs with one who is prepared to engage LE tend to melt away upon a response from LE, even if the one or two who had the balls to engage continue to fight. Not so much when attacking a regular Joe––-not only is more and greater force likely, but the group that was on the brink of melting away at the outset of the fight with LE is instead on the brink of charging in to assist to with the assault when facing a non-LE type. ETA: I promised a couple, and only gave one: Pursuing a fleeing armed robber, who then began shooting at me and my partner. I fired back at him, I thought 3 rounds or so, but it turned out to be 8. The salient point here is that despite training and mindset, once the rounds start flying at you, or you otherwise become in fear for your life, the single over-riding thought going through your head, if you can even articulate one, is an intense desire to make the Bad Things stop, and stop RIght Now, and to that end you will pull the little lever that makes a loud noise as fast as you can and as much as you can until the Bad Things either go away or you have no more rounds. I don't plan on persuing anyone, if they are running, I'm not following. I accomplished my goal. If my mag malfunctions I would probably be better off running (if at a distance), or closing in and using contact weaponry/my hands. If I am shooting someone, they are coming at me with more than fists, and if they are far away I better run, if they are up close I don't have time for a mag-change. If I get into a situation where I am so scared I forget how many times I pull the trigger (highly likely from what I understand), how would I have the fine motor-skills (or even "know" the weapon was empty) to insert a new mag, after dropping the old, correctly, the right direction, etc? I agree you make great points, I am just playing devil's advocate for them. All that being said, if my penis gets shot, screw it. I'm putting the gun down and charging you and hoping for a headshot. |
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Here's a couple real world examples of gunfights: One armed robber versus two police officers at my department: Armed robber fired 11 rounds, striking no one, at the same time that the two officers each emptied their Beretta 92, for a total of 30 shots fired by them. One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Had the officers had no reloads, and had the armed robber had a friend or two along, this could have had bad consequences for the officers. And before anyone points out that LE is more likely to encounter a situation giving rise to the need to use lethal force––-that's a point, to a point. LE in general is charged with the apprehension of criminals, and therefore is, in general, more likely to encounter them in day to day life, but by that same token, LE is not only more equipped to deal with them (vests, less lethal options, radios for instant communication to a lot of people dressed the same, etc.,) but most criminals are aware of LE's general state of equipment. This means that your average crook, who, despite the thug music claiming bravado, is more inclined to run than to engage where LE is concerned, and even groups of thugs with one who is prepared to engage LE tend to melt away upon a response from LE, even if the one or two who had the balls to engage continue to fight. Not so much when attacking a regular Joe––-not only is more and greater force likely, but the group that was on the brink of melting away at the outset of the fight with LE is instead on the brink of charging in to assist to with the assault when facing a non-LE type. ETA: I promised a couple, and only gave one: Pursuing a fleeing armed robber, who then began shooting at me and my partner. I fired back at him, I thought 3 rounds or so, but it turned out to be 8. The salient point here is that despite training and mindset, once the rounds start flying at you, or you otherwise become in fear for your life, the single over-riding thought going through your head, if you can even articulate one, is an intense desire to make the Bad Things stop, and stop RIght Now, and to that end you will pull the little lever that makes a loud noise as fast as you can and as much as you can until the Bad Things either go away or you have no more rounds. I don't plan on persuing anyone, if they are running, I'm not following. I accomplished my goal. If my mag malfunctions I would probably be better off running (if at a distance), or closing in and using contact weaponry/my hands. If I am shooting someone, they are coming at me with more than fists, and if they are far away I better run, if they are up close I don't have time for a mag-change. You may not plan on pursuing someone, but someone may have no issues about pursuing you. Remember, there is no way to know what kind of gunfight you will get into (hopefully none,) and overthinking "your gunfight" is a recipe for disaster if it does not go exactly as planned. A reload may well be a viable option, either due to malfunction or dropping the mag. What happens if you drop the mag while drawing on someone and get off a round that makes him duck and run, but then he and a buddy come charging back at you from a distance away, and you have no ready cover or escape route to flee? Case in point, though not a situation I'd expect you to be in: a thug decided to kill a security guard at a Church's chicken in the 9th Ward. The thug put his Ruger P-90 up to the guard's head and fired a single shot that grazed the guard's head. The next shot would have likely ended him, but the thug had hit the mag release as he fired, leaving him empty and scrabbling on the ground for the P-90 mag........which left a perfect target for the guard to put 6 .38spls into said thug. (No True Bill at the grand jury, if you're curious.) As far as using contact weapons or your hands––this may well be a good option, depending on the distances involved, along with size disparity/contact weapons available to you/attacker/etc.––-but if you knew at what distance you might have to deploy lethal force, you could easily avoid it by simply staying that far away from everybody. And if one were that prescient, then one might chance to know the day one would need to use force, as well, and just stay home and watch TV instead. If I get into a situation where I am so scared I forget how many times I pull the trigger (highly likely from what I understand), how would I have the fine motor-skills (or even "know" the weapon was empty) to insert a new mag, after dropping the old, correctly, the right direction, etc? Not "highly likely," but "extremely likely." As to the rest––-muscle memory and training repetition will enable most folks to reload under stress far better than they could ever count rounds. For that matter, I've dealt with situations where people (including myself) reloaded a weapon under stress and never even remembered doing it––but got it right anyway. I agree you make great points, I am just playing devil's advocate for them. Fair enough, but don't let the role of devil's advocate blind you to reality. No one can choose for another what is the best mix of tools to carry for defense, or any other reason, but make sure you decide on the tools to bring for real reasons based on facts and on your preference/tolerance. e.g., if you are not going to carry a spare mag for reasons of comfort or concealability, then do it for those reasons––-don't use logical fallacies to justify it. I say this not because I wish to seem superior or the like, but because when one person who goes about armed repeats things like "average gunfight," "if that ain't enough ammo I'm screwed anyway," etc., then others may hear these things and give them validity rather than seek info for themselves. This can not only be dangerous to a new carrier or shooter who hears and believes these notions, but to the community as a whole, if people with these notions end up on grand or petit juries hearing cases of self defense and demonizing lawful people who were simply more prepared than others, or than some ideal notion that a person may have in their head that one could never need more than 5 rounds, and that any who tote more are "Rambo wannabees," or dangerous lunatics looking for an ooportunity to kill. All that being said, if my penis gets shot, screw it. I'm putting the gun down and charging you and hoping for a headshot. |
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You get into a carjacking with some gang bangers doing a random initiation...you shoot the carjacker firing off maybe 10-12 shots. Gunfight over, right? While waiting for the police to arrive, his Homeboys who were watching to make sure he went through with it decide to come up on both blind spots of your car and finish the job of capping you since you just killed their prospect....can you take out the now 2 remaining experienced gang members who surprise you with your remaining rounds?
There's plenty of other scenarios that are really not un-realistic that we could run for you. |
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Once the shooting starts you are most likely committed to the outcome, and that outcome will be dependant on how well you use cover, how well you shoot and how many rounds you have left at any given moment. If the fight isn't over when you run out of ammo, you are then also out of options.
Once it starts there is no such thing as having too much ammo. |
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Once the shooting starts you are most likely committed to the outcome, and that outcome will be dependant on how well you use cover, how well you shoot and how many rounds you have left at any given moment. If the fight isn't over when you run out of ammo, you are then also out of options. Once it starts there is no such thing as having too much ammo. Though 61 rounds of .40 is pushing it......... I keed, I keed! 
Oh, by the way––-that thing doesn't work that well on me as far as printing goes with a G22, but with a S&W 3913 it works fine. Thanks for the info. |
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Once the shooting starts you are most likely committed to the outcome, and that outcome will be dependant on how well you use cover, how well you shoot and how many rounds you have left at any given moment. If the fight isn't over when you run out of ammo, you are then also out of options. Once it starts there is no such thing as having too much ammo. Though 61 rounds of .40 is pushing it......... I keed, I keed!
Oh, by the way––-that thing doesn't work that well on me as far as printing goes with a G22, but with a S&W 3913 it works fine. Thanks for the info. you must have a very good memory! The glock does stick out just a tad. I use looser shirts. I'm glad it's working out for you. I Use mine daily. Just don't put it on high heat in the dryer. |
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Once the shooting starts you are most likely committed to the outcome, and that outcome will be dependant on how well you use cover, how well you shoot and how many rounds you have left at any given moment. If the fight isn't over when you run out of ammo, you are then also out of options. Once it starts there is no such thing as having too much ammo. Though 61 rounds of .40 is pushing it......... I keed, I keed!
Oh, by the way––-that thing doesn't work that well on me as far as printing goes with a G22, but with a S&W 3913 it works fine. Thanks for the info. you must have a very good memory! I'm no Deej86, but I can hold a few things in my noggin if I've a notion. |
| Do as you wish, it's your life. But to purposely not carry a spare mag because I'm guessing you don't want the hassle of extra weight or convenience is foolish. I carry a spare mag or speed strip for any gun I walk out the door with. My main reason is if there's a malfunction. The speed strips for my snubby are because it's only got 5 rounds. You can play what if all day, but when it comes down to it that spare mag is an insurance. You may never need it buts there. Isn't that why we carry a handgun, too? |
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I go apply for my CWP next Wednesday. I plan on carrying a G19 and a spare G17 mag, so I'd have 16 rounds in the gun and 17 rounds on my belt. Extra if I carry a back-up gun (probably going to go for a S&W 642 instead of a Ruger LCP).
Hell, I might even carry two spare G17 mags when I wear a jacket to hide it better....
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One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Butters! You just can't go around shooting guys in the junk! The funniest part of the whole business was that two days later an old-timer toting a wheelgun rolled up to a MacDonald's for his morning coffee and breakfast, right as the two guys who had just robbed the joint rolled out, one with a shotgun and the other with an AK clone, and pointed their weapons at the old fart. 2 shots of .38spl later, he was the only one standing. |
if you don't want to carry a spare mag, don't. but if your not willing to be prepared to the best of your ability, why go through the trouble of carrying a gun. get a fuckin rape whistle and run off blowing the thing. if you ever get in a gun fight the chances of you getting shot in the gun/hand are good.. when that happens the chances of the mag getting damaged are also good. by the way, you should also be proficient with one hand, in case you get shot in the hand and all. might want to practice reloads and malfunction drills one handed too. or......just carry that rape whistle and run, I hope you don't get shot in the back
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if you don't want to carry a spare mag, don't. but if your not willing to be prepared to the best of your ability, why go through the trouble of carrying a gun. get a fuckin rape whistle and run off blowing the thing. if you ever get in a gun fight the chances of you getting shot in the gun/hand are good.. when that happens the chances of the mag getting damaged are also good. by the way, you should also be proficient with one hand, in case you get shot in the hand and all. might want to practice reloads and malfunction drills one handed too. or......just carry that rape whistle and run, I hope you don't get shot in the back I do practice that shit.
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Here's a couple real world examples of gunfights: One armed robber versus two police officers at my department: Armed robber fired 11 rounds, striking no one, at the same time that the two officers each emptied their Beretta 92, for a total of 30 shots fired by them. One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Had the officers had no reloads, and had the armed robber had a friend or two along, this could have had bad consequences for the officers. And before anyone points out that LE is more likely to encounter a situation giving rise to the need to use lethal force––-that's a point, to a point. LE in general is charged with the apprehension of criminals, and therefore is, in general, more likely to encounter them in day to day life, but by that same token, LE is not only more equipped to deal with them (vests, less lethal options, radios for instant communication to a lot of people dressed the same, etc.,) but most criminals are aware of LE's general state of equipment. This means that your average crook, who, despite the thug music claiming bravado, is more inclined to run than to engage where LE is concerned, and even groups of thugs with one who is prepared to engage LE tend to melt away upon a response from LE, even if the one or two who had the balls to engage continue to fight. Not so much when attacking a regular Joe––-not only is more and greater force likely, but the group that was on the brink of melting away at the outset of the fight with LE is instead on the brink of charging in to assist to with the assault when facing a non-LE type. ETA: I promised a couple, and only gave one: Pursuing a fleeing armed robber, who then began shooting at me and my partner. I fired back at him, I thought 3 rounds or so, but it turned out to be 8. The salient point here is that despite training and mindset, once the rounds start flying at you, or you otherwise become in fear for your life, the single over-riding thought going through your head, if you can even articulate one, is an intense desire to make the Bad Things stop, and stop RIght Now, and to that end you will pull the little lever that makes a loud noise as fast as you can and as much as you can until the Bad Things either go away or you have no more rounds. I don't plan on persuing anyone, if they are running, I'm not following. I accomplished my goal. If my mag malfunctions I would probably be better off running (if at a distance), or closing in and using contact weaponry/my hands. If I am shooting someone, they are coming at me with more than fists, and if they are far away I better run, if they are up close I don't have time for a mag-change. You may not plan on pursuing someone, but someone may have no issues about pursuing you. Remember, there is no way to know what kind of gunfight you will get into (hopefully none,) and overthinking "your gunfight" is a recipe for disaster if it does not go exactly as planned. A reload may well be a viable option, either due to malfunction or dropping the mag. What happens if you drop the mag while drawing on someone and get off a round that makes him duck and run, but then he and a buddy come charging back at you from a distance away, and you have no ready cover or escape route to flee? Case in point, though not a situation I'd expect you to be in: a thug decided to kill a security guard at a Church's chicken in the 9th Ward. The thug put his Ruger P-90 up to the guard's head and fired a single shot that grazed the guard's head. The next shot would have likely ended him, but the thug had hit the mag release as he fired, leaving him empty and scrabbling on the ground for the P-90 mag........which left a perfect target for the guard to put 6 .38spls into said thug. (No True Bill at the grand jury, if you're curious.) As far as using contact weapons or your hands––this may well be a good option, depending on the distances involved, along with size disparity/contact weapons available to you/attacker/etc.––-but if you knew at what distance you might have to deploy lethal force, you could easily avoid it by simply staying that far away from everybody. And if one were that prescient, then one might chance to know the day one would need to use force, as well, and just stay home and watch TV instead. If I get into a situation where I am so scared I forget how many times I pull the trigger (highly likely from what I understand), how would I have the fine motor-skills (or even "know" the weapon was empty) to insert a new mag, after dropping the old, correctly, the right direction, etc? Not "highly likely," but "extremely likely." As to the rest––-muscle memory and training repetition will enable most folks to reload under stress far better than they could ever count rounds. For that matter, I've dealt with situations where people (including myself) reloaded a weapon under stress and never even remembered doing it––but got it right anyway. I agree you make great points, I am just playing devil's advocate for them. Fair enough, but don't let the role of devil's advocate blind you to reality. No one can choose for another what is the best mix of tools to carry for defense, or any other reason, but make sure you decide on the tools to bring for real reasons based on facts and on your preference/tolerance. e.g., if you are not going to carry a spare mag for reasons of comfort or concealability, then do it for those reasons––-don't use logical fallacies to justify it. I say this not because I wish to seem superior or the like, but because when one person who goes about armed repeats things like "average gunfight," "if that ain't enough ammo I'm screwed anyway," etc., then others may hear these things and give them validity rather than seek info for themselves. This can not only be dangerous to a new carrier or shooter who hears and believes these notions, but to the community as a whole, if people with these notions end up on grand or petit juries hearing cases of self defense and demonizing lawful people who were simply more prepared than others, or than some ideal notion that a person may have in their head that one could never need more than 5 rounds, and that any who tote more are "Rambo wannabees," or dangerous lunatics looking for an ooportunity to kill. All that being said, if my penis gets shot, screw it. I'm putting the gun down and charging you and hoping for a headshot. Comp-Tac mag-carrier on the way. Friend had one and is sending it to me, compliments of his generousity. Can't knock free, and I already have some extra mags. If it doesn't print more or anything, I will carry 'em. |
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One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Butters! You just can't go around shooting guys in the junk! The funniest part of the whole business was that two days later an old-timer toting a wheelgun rolled up to a MacDonald's for his morning coffee and breakfast, right as the two guys who had just robbed the joint rolled out, one with a shotgun and the other with an AK clone, and pointed their weapons at the old fart. 2 shots of .38spl later, he was the only one standing. What, did he shoot them in the penis as well? Where do you live? I'm not going there.
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One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Butters! You just can't go around shooting guys in the junk! The funniest part of the whole business was that two days later an old-timer toting a wheelgun rolled up to a MacDonald's for his morning coffee and breakfast, right as the two guys who had just robbed the joint rolled out, one with a shotgun and the other with an AK clone, and pointed their weapons at the old fart. 2 shots of .38spl later, he was the only one standing. What, did he shoot them in the penis as well? Where do you live? I'm not going there. No, one got a good center mass hit, the other took one in the head. And I suspect you've been here before.....in sunny NOLA! |
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if you don't want to carry a spare mag, don't. but if your not willing to be prepared to the best of your ability, why go through the trouble of carrying a gun. get a fuckin rape whistle and run off blowing the thing. if you ever get in a gun fight the chances of you getting shot in the gun/hand are good.. when that happens the chances of the mag getting damaged are also good. by the way, you should also be proficient with one hand, in case you get shot in the hand and all. might want to practice reloads and malfunction drills one handed too. or......just carry that rape whistle and run, I hope you don't get shot in the back I do practice that shit. so do I.  I love the way people look at me at the range when Im racking my slide off my boot heel or pant leg. they all like tha fuck you doin?
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One shot struck the robber in the penis, causing him to stop fighting. Butters! You just can't go around shooting guys in the junk! The funniest part of the whole business was that two days later an old-timer toting a wheelgun rolled up to a MacDonald's for his morning coffee and breakfast, right as the two guys who had just robbed the joint rolled out, one with a shotgun and the other with an AK clone, and pointed their weapons at the old fart. 2 shots of .38spl later, he was the only one standing. What, did he shoot them in the penis as well? Where do you live? I'm not going there. No, one got a good center mass hit, the other took one in the head. And I suspect you've been here before.....in sunny NOLA! Been there once or twice as a kid. Well, I am 24 now, so you still might think of me as a "kid", depending on your own age. I mean for an 8th grade LA history field-trip, and once or twice on business with my Dad when he took me along. I never understood the allure of it, having been there. The only thing I noticed that impressed me in a positive way was the culture––which is to say––people behaving normally for where they originate, thus seeming novel to those who did not originate there. No plans to ever visit again. My penis and I are safe, lol |
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I don't plan on persuing anyone, if they are running, I'm not following. I accomplished my goal. (Unless they are running to get back up) If my mag malfunctions I would probably be better off running (if at a distance), or closing in and using contact weaponry/my hands (If they are close enough for this than you screwed yourself when you reached for your gun). If I am shooting someone, they are coming at me with more than fists, and if they are far away I better run, if they are up close I don't have time for a mag-change. If I get into a situation where I am so scared I forget how many times I pull the trigger (highly likely from what I understand), how would I have the fine motor-skills (or even "know" the weapon was empty) to insert a new mag, after dropping the old, correctly, the right direction, etc? TRAIN |
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Yes you should, do I always, no. I'll freely admit I always encourage others to do so but don't always practice what I preach.
As mentioned, it's not just the round count, it's fixing a broken gun. Most malfunctions are magazine related. Or in that situation that makes your ass pucker, you drop the mag out of your gun unintentionally, instead of climbing around on the ground for it, you just reload from your belt. Once you start lugging a gun around, a spare mag isn't much of a problem. |
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Is my thinking wrong? Its obvious by your responses that you've already made up your mind. So why are you wasting people's time if all you want is responses that boost your ego by backing up "thoughts" that are based on nothing more than you sitting around your house deep thinking? |
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Is my thinking wrong? Its obvious by your responses that you've already made up your mind. So why are you wasting people's time if all you want is responses that boost your ego by backing up "thoughts" that are based on nothing more than you sitting around your house deep thinking? Read ALL his responses man––-he's ordered a mag carrier already. |
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scotchymcdrinkerbean's original reply should be a sticky. It clearly outlines the need to carry a spare mag. I get sotired of folks whining the usual BS about "not needing extra ammo" or the "If I cant take care of business with (insert number of rounds here), then I should not be dealing with it in the first place.." or whatever.
Thanks for articulating the need for a spare in a clear and conscise manner. |
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scotchymcdrinkerbean's original reply should be a sticky. It clearly outlines the need to carry a spare mag. I get sotired of folks whining the usual BS about "not needing extra ammo" or the "If I cant take care of business with (insert number of rounds here), then I should not be dealing with it in the first place.." or whatever. Thanks for articulating the need for a spare in a clear and concise manner. It is the definitive response indeed, from an individual who knows, and it should be awarded sticky status as a counterbalance to all of the types of ill advised. uninformed responses you mentioned. |
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I can recall at least once at a defensive handgun course where I accidentally ejected the magazine while drawing.
But my training kicked in and I immediately loaded my spare mag without even thinking. It was a little embarrassing, but I learned a valuable lesson to say the least. |
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J frame with strip: 10 rounds (with the optimism you can reload) 1911: 17 rounds (assuming 8 round mags) M&P 9c: 25 rounds (assuming 12 rd mags. Add 5 if you carry a 17 rd. spare) BHP: 31 (assuming 15 rd mags, add 5 if you carry a 20 rd spare) I get the spare magazine because you can screw up or they can fail. I'm still OK with the J frame or 1911 for a CCW even with the lower round count. Not sure I have a good reason for that. |
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J frame with strip: 10 rounds (with the optimism you can reload) 1911: 17 rounds (assuming 8 round mags) M&P 9c: 25 rounds (assuming 12 rd mags. Add 5 if you carry a 17 rd. spare) BHP: 31 (assuming 15 rd mags, add 5 if you carry a 20 rd spare) I get the spare magazine because you can screw up or they can fail. I'm still OK with the J frame or 1911 for a CCW even with the lower round count. Not sure I have a good reason for that. If one choose's to carry a revolver with no extra ammo, that is perfectly ok. |
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if you don't want to carry a spare mag, don't. but if your not willing to be prepared to the best of your ability, why go through the trouble of carrying a gun. get a fuckin rape whistle and run off blowing the thing. if you ever get in a gun fight the chances of you getting shot in the gun/hand are good.. when that happens the chances of the mag getting damaged are also good. by the way, you should also be proficient with one hand, in case you get shot in the hand and all. might want to practice reloads and malfunction drills one handed too. or......just carry that rape whistle and run, I hope you don't get shot in the back I do practice that shit. so do I. I love the way people look at me at the range when Im racking my slide off my boot heel or pant leg. they all like tha fuck you doin?I kinda had to for the first month or two after I got capped in the elbow cause I couldn't do anything the normal way. hahaha
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I plan on carrying 15+1 in my G19. Do I need an extra mag? I always figured if I couldn't solve it in 15+1, I am either against a superior amount of numbers (riot), or am against armored assailants, or someone who probably would have shot me before I drew anyways as they apparently planned well enough to have me expend all 16 rounds without stopping them. They probably brought a shotgun or rifle. I'm screwed anyway. To me, a handgun is a quick solution to a quick problem. A complex, big problem, requires a big response––and a handgun isn't it––running is probably best there, unless macho is more important than survival to you. Is my thinking wrong? Yes; your thinking is wrong on this matter. You're smarter than that; carry at least 1 additional magazine because it might just be necessary to save your life. |