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Posted: 3/31/2011 4:26:41 PM EDT
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Can someone measure an underfolder with the stock closed and let me know what the overall length is? I believe that the rear pistol grip counts toward the overall length as well, as long as it protrudes past the end of the receiver. I am trying to determine it is is legal for me to own one of these here in Michigan (The OAL has to be >26").
Thanks! |
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Can someone measure an underfolder with the stock closed and let me know what the overall length is? I believe that the rear pistol grip counts toward the overall length as well, as long as it protrudes past the end of the receiver. I am trying to determine it is is legal for me to own one of these here in Michigan (The OAL has to be >26"). Thanks! Where are you buying from? I emailed Atlantic Firearms along these lines and they said they won't ship folders to MI. IIRC, the consensus is that the folders are 25.5" from crown of barrel to the back of the receiver, and the grip doesn't do much. I'm sure a Tapco SAW grip pushes it past legal length, as would having the slant comp pinned-on, I have an email to Henderson Defense about it. |
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When I read the title of this thread I knew you had to be from Michigan. Michigan's GREAT but that one law sucks ( an maybe a couple others too, seeing how alot of laws suck here and around the country). I don't see why they wouldn't ship here, you can get it with a handgun buying permit. You would need that to get out of your ffl's place of buisness. So them shipping has nothing to do with the transaction being legal. You could even fax a copy of the permit to them if they want to do it that way. My guess is they don't want to deal with all that would be involved. I've never bought one so I don't know for sure but that's all I thought was involved. Clairfy if Im mistaken.
For thoes who don't know if your gun is less than 26inches in the folded position it's classfied as a Handgun here in Michigan. (Apperently I am mistaken on this and it's less than 30 inches but greater than 26 inches) At least we can still get them if we really want one.  Thats better than some places where full stock versions are not even welcome.
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When I read the title of this thread I knew you had to be from Michigan. Michigan's GREAT but that one law sucks ( an maybe a couple others too, seeing how alot of laws suck here and around the country). I don't see why they wouldn't ship here, you can get it with a handgun buying permit. You would need that to get out of your ffl's place of buisness. So them shipping has nothing to do with the transaction being legal. You could even fax a copy of the permit to them if they want to do it that way. My guess is they don't want to deal with all that would be involved. I've never bought one so I don't know for sure but that's all I thought was involved. Clairfy if Im mistaken. For thoes who don't know if your gun is less than 26inches in the folded position it's classfied as a Handgun here in Michigan. At least we can still get them if we really want one. Thats better than some places where full stock versions are not even welcome.NONONONONONONO! It's less than 30" that's considered a handgun, less than 26" is a SBR, according to the MSP. Here is the MCL for reference. MCL 750.222; MSA 28.419, in pertinent part, provides: ‘(d) ‘Shotgun’ means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single function of the trigger. ‘(e) ‘Short-barreled shotgun’ means a shotgun having 1 or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or a weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. ‘(f) ‘Rifle’ means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. ‘(g) ‘Short-barreled rifle’ means a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a weapon made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.’ |
| My fault, I guess had it wrong, but if this is the case then how are all these under folder short barreled rifles being sold. I have never heard of special requirements for under folders besides what I mentioned; or them even being classifyed as SBR's. If under folders are in fact 25.5 inches then wouldn't that make them all SBR's? I'm confused about this. |
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I'm a bit confused. Ask Evil Creamsicle and Kimberguy. These two chuckleheads have both OC'ed UF's in public (with photos), ask them how their safety inspections went. Perhaps the police have went on this?
‘(g) ‘Short-barreled rifle’ means a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a weapon made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.’ Technically, this only defines an illegal SBR as one that was modified from original (sawed-off rifle/shotgun). Theoretically, there should not be an issue if the cop wants to unscrew the comp and measures 25.5". If he gets his panties in a knot, at best you'll need a supervisor and crack-open the book. Worst case scenario you'll be a reference case. Show your local PD and the DA the MCL and get their opinions. |
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The MCL says modified or otherwise, which I take as originally being made this way. Which would mean all firearms reguardless of who made them this way are SBR's if under 26 inches.
Yea it is a bit confusing, like most laws, they are open to interpretation. The problem is that our interpretation doesn't matter, only their's does. |
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The MCL says modified or otherwise, which I take as originally being made this way. Which would mean all firearms reguardless of who made them this way are SBR's if under 26 inches. Yea it is a bit confusing, like most laws, they are open to interpretation. The problem is that our interpretation doesn't matter, only their's does. Thing is, there is a comma separating the two halves. "Barrel less than 16" by modification/alteration/otherwise" is separated from "as modified less than 26" overall". It seems as if the MCL prohibits barrels shorter than 16" whether original or not, but only prohibits an OAL less than 26" by alteration/modification. |
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I had a Norinco 84S-1 back in the 80's. Paid $125 for it. It was an underfolder. When did the law change. OR.....did I posess an illegal rifle. Is the FH on those removable? How did the safety inspection go, did you have to remove the FH to measure length? |
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The flash hider was removable. Rifles in Michigan as I can remember did not need the three part purchase permit.
I purchased it directly from my boss who was an FFL dealer. He purchased about 30 rifles and sold me one. He sold it to me as a rifle back in 1987. I wanted a fixed stock rifle but he could only get it as an underfolder in .223. I had no knowledge of the overall length law provision. I took to the range a bunch of times and never had an eyebrow raised. Thank god I live in the GunShine state now. I just finished my 8th AK. A romanian / Polish Underfolder mix. SWEEEEET This is the one I had. http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.php?g=content1190563949 |
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Need a darn lawyer to figure this out but if you read the very last sentence at the bottom of the page , he gives his ruling.
http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/1980s/op06280.htm |
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See third question down. http://www.kalamazoopublicsafety.org/faqs/97-faq-other-weapons#rifle |
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Yea it is a bit confusing, like most laws, they are open to interpretation. The problem is that our interpretation doesn't matter, only their's does. Government can prove anything they want to prove. Best not to fall in their hands and get convicted of witchcraft. |
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