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Posted: 6/12/2007 6:04:28 PM EDT
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Are the magazines for use in the Saiga Sporter rifles proprietary or can AR-15 mags be used? (.223, of course). TIA Bud |
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Saiga 223 mags are a modified form of military 223 mags. 3 main things: They have the addition of a feed ramp at the front lip, because the guns as stock do not have a bullet guide. They are cut out on the front because the saigas trunnion lugs (or whatever) are longer. They have material removed from around the mag catch lug. 3 different ways to go: 1: Leave gun alone, buy modified mags or modify yourself. (Wiegers or galils or?) 2. Install bullet guide in gun, use galil orlite mags (these have cut down fronts already) 3. A: Install bullet guide B: Shorten trunnion lugs (Use a mini cut off wheel on the dremel, or use a mill or let a smith do it) C: Grind down the protrusion above the mag catch. This is part of the receiver and the mag catch plate. Grind to flush, like a normal ak. D: Sand down various rivet heads and rub spots. Use unmodified 223 military mags (Bulgarian, Wieger) and ak74 mags with modified followers (backs raised 1/8th inch.) You can't use galil mags now. Note _ above information stolen from Dinzag Dinzag In the bullet guides section is a PDF called 223 mag options 223 mag options Ok, take note, there are 2 different receivers used to make 223 saigas. Most of them do not have magwell dimples. My 20" 223 does have dimples. I keep reading that 223 saigas use ak74 dimension mags, but mine sure looks like AKM dimensions. Wieger mags and East German Bakelite 74's move around a bit, side to side. Bulgarian plastic 74's and Yugo 5.56 mags fit tight. But remember, the non-dimpled receivers might be different. If you haven't got your rifle yet, I'd order a 20", and hope for dimples. edit- and the AR-15 mags are a no go, wrong shape. Even if they could work, they would be a reliability downgrade. If you want premium mags, buy the Yugos. If you want cheap, modify some Bulgarian AK-74's |
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You're welcome Bud. Thought I'd post some info to add to the above. Stock Saiga 223 8 round (the one that came with my dimpled gun, anyone have one from a no dimple gun to measure) 1.03" wide 2.29" long inside Yugo 5.56 mag: 12.7 oz empty 25 oz loaded 1.02" wide 2.30" inside Wieger 5.56 mag: 9.7oz 22 oz loaded 0.96" wide 2.30" long inside East German Bakelite 5.45x39 8.8 oz 21.1 oz loaded 0.96" wide 2.27" long inside Bulgarian Brown 5.45x39 7.1 oz 19.4 oz loaded 0.96" wide 2.28" long inside Loaded is mag wt + 12.3oz 30 rounds Win Q3131 55 grain is 12.3 oz, I know I should do M885 but that was handy. One of these days I'm going to get a Bulgarian 5.56 mag, but if someone would measure how wide it is and post it, the information would be useful. It's interesting that the Bulgy poly mag, loaded with 13 rounds of Win. Q3131, was still a tad lighter than the Yugo. 4 loaded Yugo mags are 100 oz, 5 loaded Bulgarians are 97.6 oz. Also the Bulgy mag didn't move, while the Wieger and Bakelite DDR mags could move. (side to side at the rear of the mag) Yet all were the same width. The Yugo mag also requires a bit more room at the crossmember. You will have to grind down that side of the crossmember. The NDS-556 Yugo receiver comes that way. Also, use your ugly mags for trial fitting during grinding. It's probably going to get uglier. Oh, and I don't want to imply Bulgarian 5.56 mags from being lesser than the Yugo's. My waffle 7.62 Bulgy mag is sweet. So, the Bulgy's might even be more desirable because of the Yugo's heft. But, if you like well built steel mags, you'll like the Yugo's. The Wiegers are nice mags. They're shorter than the Yugo by about half an inch and are lighter. The quality is very high overall, but the follower isn't as stable as the Yugo. I don't think anyone has any problems with them, but that's my observation. Oh, also didn't want to say that all AR-15 mags are not reliable. You can get some pretty damn good ar mags these days. But, in an AK type weapon, the front of the mag is too high, relative to the lips. Also, the front rib on the AR-15 mag doesn't extend high enough to nudge the case toward the center. The galil AR mag adaptors seem to have less than perfect performance in the rifles they were designed for. So, the one reason you would want one, so you can use AR mags in an emergency, is the one time you would never want to rely on one. Oh, and if anyone has a damaged Wieger or Yugo 5.56 mag, or a low cap Wieger, let me know what you want for it. I need the top 3 inches of the mag only. I'm going to convert a Chi-com 120 round AR-15 Drum. It will lose at least 5 rounds of capacity, but that should still work. |
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