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Posted: 5/22/2005 11:08:07 PM EDT
| Greetings all FNG here, I'm thinking of purchasing an AK for the first time and have been looking at a Vepr. Is it a good choice for a first AK? Any problems with them? Do they accept all AK high capacity magazines if not which ones do they? Should I do they fixed or folder? Muzzle break or flashhider? thanks for your help! |
Let me be the first to say  Welcome to the addiction !!! Now to your questions. I owned a Romanian SAR1 prior to purchasing my VEPR. The difference between them is literally night and day. The VEPR is very accurate and extremely well made. Mine is the VEPR-K in 5.45x39mm. It has the 16" barrel and the muzzle brake. I have the fixed stock but I routed out alot of the fiberglass and made it skeletonized. Some complain that it is too heavy and it doesn't "look" like a real AK. Although I agree on the look, it is not that heavy. It has taken every hi-cap that I have fed to it and never had one hiccup. This gun is a dream to shoot and I could not be happier. If you want a high quality AK that is extremely accurate (for an AK) then go with the VEPR |
| Veprs are grrrreat! You must go get one A.S.A.P.. I have a 20" 7.62x39 and a 16" .223 and they are accurate and reliable as well as a quality fit and finish job. When you hold one it feels like you are holding a quality weapon. I have put an AR 15 CAR stock and an ergo grip on mine by using the ACE cut the tang off stock. I was able to keep the tang by using the car stock so I can go back to the factory furniture if I want. If I was buying another AK I would get the 16" 7.62X39. I like the weight. |
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I had one. It would spit out fresh rounds along with the spend brass once or twice per magazine. I couldn't track down the cause and even posts here did not reveal a fix. I'd be afraid of using one for home defense because of the deadmans click. Then there was the accuracy. It had the best of any AK I ever owned, but it also had the worst. I sighted it in on a rest on the bench and it was dead on center of the target. Move it to a light hand hold and now it would hit bottom of the target. Move back to the rest and hold it tightly to get an extremely tight group and it would hit the top of the target. Where it would hit was completely dependent on how much pressure was on the front handguard. Perhaps it would be okay with a freefloating handguard. As it was, it was horrible rifle. |
| I love the design and I love veprs however the lack of 20rd mags is what keeps me from it. It is a very cost effective alternative to the M-1 or AR ten but you could get a PTR for $700 new if you watch for sales and 20 rd mags for those are all over. If only having ten rounders is no big deal then the .308 Vepr is a great buy I think. |
Can you comment on the accuracy of the .308 VEPR II? I am not really pressed about 10 round mags and with a good scope on the Robarms rail, I'm wondering how it would do |
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I'm a big Vepr fan. I've used one in 3gun competition for the last few years with no problem at all, and I manage to hang in there and score well too. My 7.62x39 does 2 MOA piece of cake. I live near Robarm and I'm friends with the guys there. There is a Vepr group buy going on at www.fbmginc.com right now with some really great prices. Lowest that I've ever seen. I'm getting myself a .223 Vepr out of the group buy, running a JP brake on it, and an EOtech on an Ultimak and that will be my new comp gun. Now for the .308 shifting accuracy that much with just handguard pressure, that is bizarre, and I've never seen, nor heard of anything like that before. Are you sure it was the pressure on the handguard and not the scope mount shifting? As for kicking out live rounds during feeding, I've seen that before, but not on an AK. It is a magazine problem. Lips aren't retaining the new cartridge like they should and it is bouncing into the action during extraction instead of being stripped by the bolt on return. |
Every thing I have read says they are very accurate for that type of rifle (Your not going to get a PSG1). As I said I do not have one because of the mag issue. I would also probably agree about the shifting of the accuracy being the scope mount. If you read all the articles on the Robinson sight they said they do not recomend most scope mounts on the .308. If I put one on it I would go for the one that installs with set screws and would never take it off. That is just me though. I have seen other people say they do not have any problems with the standard AK mount but others have. Sorry I can not give you direct info because I also hate " I heard from somebody who heard from sombody" info. Robinson sells a mount that is supposed to be the best but it is not your $40 CDDN stuff either it is about $80 or so and they explain why that one is better. It has something to do with bore alignmet I think. Hope this helps.  Below is a link to some good Vepr info http://www.ak47.com/FAQ%20Answers.htm#VEPR%20Stock |
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I caused some confusion by posting following the mention of the .308 version, so here are more details. The rifle was a Vepr K .223. Two years ago I was posting a bunch of 50 yard open sight accuracy tests here because it was simply the most accurate AK I ever had and I wanted to know how it performed with a wide assortment of ammunition, including XM193 and Black Hills match. Then I put on a scope and extended the range and it got so inconsistent I was at a loss. I looked at the scope, the mount, etc, etc,. I could not find a cause. It is extremely time consuming to do accuracy tests to begin with, so this helped kill them back in 2003. I also picked up an Arsenal .223 AK and was doing side by side tests with it too. Then the non-heat treated receiver locked shut one day so I had a dead AK until Arsenal sent me a new one. It was a real bummer and my arfcom AK accuracy tests were done for good. The Vepr problem was not magazine related. I must have tried 15 or more different ones of various types through it. I had 5 Robinson Arms factory magazines for it, a slew of Bulgarian waffles, and even a Chinese metal .223 I filled a bit so it would fit. They were all flawless in the Arsenal .223 rifle. After going over every mm of the Vepr I decided to try it while I was confirming 200 yard zero on an AR15. I usually do this on silhouette targets. If I can hold all my shots in the head zone I call it good and sometimes then move it out to 300. That’s when I noticed how dependant the Vepr is on handguard pressure. It’s outrageous. I did this open sights too, so scopes and mounts were not a factor. I also had plenty of deadman’s clicks as live rounds kept being kicked out and the bolt closed on an empty chamber. Final straw. Not only is it unreliable, it easily throws rounds up and down on the target based on the handguards. Besides the disappointment and disgust, it was actually quite amusing to be able to call where the round would hit based on handguard pressure. I even wondered if I could throw shots left and right with it. I think I did a few times, but didn’t test it enough to know for sure. I sold the Vepr for $300. It is probably much more than it is worth. |
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Well, it sounds like you got a bad gun. It happens. I have been in the military since 88' in the Infantry and as an Armorer. Our quality control is much better than what you can expect from Russian countries and I have seen a ton of bad weapons of all shapes and sizes, bad from the factory. What you should have done is send it back to Robinson. They would have made it right for you however they could. Its not like it was some $200 parts gun that most people could just throw away at such a rediculous price. You must have a lot of disposable income. I dont understand why people just fly off the handle and base all of their opinions on the experience with just one gun. If that had been the case for me I never would have made in as an armorer. |
Reliability was a bad enough issue with the Vepr, but the handguard caused accuracy problem would be with ALL of them. Short of a redesign of the handguards, I won’t be buying anymore RA Veprs. But if they came out with a free floater at a reasonable price I would try one again. Also, if I could get a Russian version I’d try that too. RA just messed it up with the poorly designed stocks. The Russian version probably does not have any such problem. It was the two MAJOR issues that caused me to dump the rifle. I don’t have the time or the money (ammo costs) to screw around with a POS rifle. I’ll take the $199 loss and move on. You didn’t see it on the EE because I would not screw an arfcom member with a screwed up rifle. Also I have another AK (an Arsenal 5.45) back at the factory right now. I’ve been waiting for over a month now with no word on it. It is a worthwhile rifle, so I’ll put in the time, effort and money to get it straight. Plus Templer pushed me to get it fixed. Finally, RA can't even get spare parts for the VEPR. They are not the factory. They just put in some of their US made parts, add the stock and ship them out. |
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Actually, the Russian stocks are almost identical. They are wood, have a thumb hole (where as RA is a plastic without the thumb hole) but the hand guards are the same in the way they attach. The only reason they change them out at all is because of the parts count. Other than the material and lack of a thumb hole, they are the same and attach the same way as they do from the factory. As for the bbl moving, I do a demo when I teach marksmanship where I lock up a cleaning rod in an M4 or an A2 barrel by putting pressure on the FSB (it shows how much you can shift the bbl when you use a tight sling like the Marines do, and how you need to repeat the same pressure for consistant shots). It can happen with any weapon that does not have a free floating bbl. Why yours had so much play is a mystery without inspecting the weapon. It is not financially feasable to free float the bbl on the AK design. I doubt you will see anyone do it in any sort of quantity. |
| That is an interesting issue you had because neither of mine do that. I have a .223 16" and a 20" in 7.62x39. Neither of them shoot as good as my .308 bolt gun but are way more consistant than described. I have never had reliability problems either except for some cheap ammo once that did not work well in my AR either. As far as spare parts I do not see the problem. You can buy triggers and stocks and reviever blocks from ACE that will work and I put an ergo grip on mine. I do not see where getting a bolt or gas piston would be a problem either. I guess if someone actualy shot the barrel out maybe that would be a problem but I would like to see that happen. I am so happy with mine I am thinking of getting a third because I would like the 16" 7.62x39. I do have to agree that they could have came up with a better system to attatch the hand gaurds but I have not had a problem. |
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