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Posted: 5/31/2010 6:12:36 AM EDT
Was wondering if anyone knows what front sight with cleaning rod catch would work on my mak 90.Trying to replace the neutered sight to give it a some what original look with cleaning rod in place,thanks
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While this is true to an extent, and my Chinese Norinco MAK-90 has a hooded FSB, my Chinese Norinco NHM-90 has the open style. Both are all original.
I believe I posted a picture of the NHM-90's FSB in my thread a few weeks ago when I bought it and removed the tack-welded muzzle thread cover. This suprised me a bit as well, and I'm not sure if all NHM's are this way or just some of them. It is one of several minor differences I've noticed between the two rifles. |
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All that is certainly true. But it depends on one's vantage point of "original" - original to what the true military Type 56 utilized, or original to rifles imported to the US for commercial sale.
The Chinese did manufacture a Chinese rifle with the open front sight. However, it was a very early version which later exports seemed to have the open front sight but primarily the hooded front sight. It was designated the "M22." It was on a milled receiver rifle. The rest of the Chinese military rifles on the milled receiver utilized either an underfolding spike bayonet front sight or a standard front sight - both of which were hooded. Later, when the Chinese military went to the use of stamped receiver rifles, the rifles continued to retain the hooded front sight. But no open front sights - particulary no rifles with the Euro/Russian style front sight for the milled receiver rifles. Here's where some folks get confused. They see the Polytech Legend and assume that's the exact rifle the Chinese military made except in semi-automatic. Well, not really. The Polytech Legend was the brainchild of a request by an importer to make a Russian-style rifle to be marketted. The Chinese basically dug out the old equipment they made their earlier milled receiver Type 56 rifles from and went to work making the Polytech Legend. Only they made it utilizing the 1980's thinking instead of the 1950's/1960's military standard. They manufactured the rifle using a more efficient means in order to save more time and money - they used the press-and-pin method for the barrel assemblies and used a two-hole rivet style on the trigger guard as opposed to the original four-hole rivet pattern. The upper handguard on the Polytech Legend rifles also utilize the later "straight cut" pattern as opposed to the "vented" pattern of earlier rifles. But the importer later stated he wished he would've been more specific as the Polytech Legend rifle incorporated almost all the features of the early Chinese Type 56 with a dash of the Russian Type III (front sight). When they made enough, they exported them to the US to be marketted as the Chinese-made version of the Type III (hence the "Legend"). The Chinese simply cranked up old tooling and machinery and made them more efficient to make rifles and accessories to be exported to the US. The M1947 or "First Model" bayonet that came with the Polytech Legend rifles were the same way - old machinery and materials with new processes to make a product more efficiently. The original Chinese M1947 bayonet was more similar to the Russian M1947 bayonet than to its later Polytech Legend bayonet cousin. The NHM-90 is one of those rifles that basically ended up with what it ended up with. They were later, post-ban rifles that were created for the sole purpose of sales. They don't represent anything the Chinese miilitary fielded. As time went on with production and as the Polyech Legend could no longer be made markettable, the Chinese were using NOS parts for things. Some rifles ended up with milled (open) front sight bases. Some with hooded. Some rifles were made without the dimples on the sides of the receiver. Most had them. |
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I agree with Rayman's post above. It is shrewdly composed and well written.
Of two NHM=90s I've known both started out with standard hooded FSBs only to have the hoods "knee capped" prior to export. The result is an abomination and I hated the look. Of the solitary NHM=91 I'm acquainted with, well, I just don't remember as its original FSB was discarded to make way for an East German milsurp open. Really don't have a recollection of it. 'Twas many, many years ago. Thus, I've only known PolyTech Legends and National Legends to be imported w/ factory original ChiCom open FSBs. Never have seen an M-22 that Rayman describes. Tho I will note that used to be the marketing nominclature for select fire Type 56 assault rifles sold abroad by Beijing back in the day; as the M-21 label represented the Type 56 carbine (SKS). When David Keng used to sell spare "PolyTech" barrel assemblies, those used to come with Legend style FSBs and gas cylinders altho that is a slightly different story. Great call, Rayman, you nailed it again, as usual. Seattle206, check your gear and report back what you think. BTW I reside in our town yet we most likely never have met. Libs rule the place so our kind find it diff to connect usually. Hope to make your acquaintance sometime. Till then, keep safe and don't drink the cool aid. |
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No worries. There's just so little information that creeps out and it's always good for folks to relay whatever information they come across. I've studied the Chinese and North Korean variants for a good many years and obtained a lot of reference information while in South Korea and China. But again, so little gets out - either it's forgotten, remembered slightly wrong, or simply a non-interesting topic by those folks in those two countries when you try to get information.
To add even more stun, some of those M22-designated "export" rifles aren't even marked with "M22" as some of them are. Here's some photos (photo credit to orignal photographers): The barrel assembly for an "M22" marked Type 56 with milled receiver and hooded FSB: 
Another "M22" style Type 56 with milled receiver and hooded FSB: 
And an "M22" style Type 56 with milled receiver and hooded FSB - but without the "M22" marking: 
A photo showing two Type 56 rifles with milled receivers - the top one with the underfolding spike bayonet hooded FSB; the bottom one in the "M22" style with hooded FSB: 
And the best for last, a photo showing the Kalashnikov on the top as a Type 56 with milled receiver and open FSB: 
I've got tons - many vintage Vietnam War and Sino-Vietnamese War. Holler if you need more. Now folks that haven't seen one can say they have. 
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Well, yeah, if trying to create an authentic clone of the real military rifle then a lot of details matter.
By "original" I was refering to what came on my rifle, and while I realize the origins of the NHM-90, and that it doesn't actually attempt to replicate a type 56 or any other military variant, and was a commercial rifle, it did have a threaded barrel and the "original" FSB has the detent pin in place. It had a tack-welded, threaded barrel shroud to hide the threads and the lugs were removed from the FSB and the GB, and a thumbhole stock was added to comply with import regulations. It also has the open topped style of FSB, is semi-auto only, and only has two selector postions. None of the latter three things bother me one iota, but I really would have prefered to have kept the "evil" cleaning rod carrying ability since I just think an AK looks better that way, even if the rifle isn't "authentic". I've strongly considered doing the Bulgy FSB to all of my neutered Chicom AKs but it doesn't solve the GB hole issue so I haven't bothered. Maybe the FSB "ears" would be enough to retain the rod adequately but I've never tried it to see if it would still shoot loose without the extra tension afforded by the GB hole. I'd rather not have the rod at all than worry about it flopping around or coming out at a bad time. I took it from the OP's question that he was, like me, less anal about authenticity to the details of the actual military rilfes, and just trying to make his rifle look less neutered. Perhaps I was wrong. |
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