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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AK snobbery... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/9/2005 3:50:25 PM EDT
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I notice a lot of rude, insulting, flaming comments by members here towards people that don't go "all original" on their AK's. Why is that? Does the fact that someone takes the AK PLATFORM and IMPROVES it remind some people that they have small pee-pees or something? Doesn't make any sense. I can understand if someone lays it out there, and then asks for opinions, but man, too many people around here seem to jump at the chance to give a guy shit when his AK has any AR doo-dads on it. Yeah, it must be the small pee-pee thing. ETA: "AK snobbery" has no pros to it, if the thing goes bang, and you hit what you shoot at, who cares what it looks like. Some AK guys around here sound too much like AR guys, SAD. |
Well I'm gonna give you my .02 cents. I'm not that knowledgeable in the AK word but I feel that if you put a 6-position collapsable stock on your AK, then you shouldn't have an AK in the first place. Like I said earlier, it's your gun, you paid for it, you do want you want with it. I personally think it's gay. Bring that shit out to the range to shoot with me... 
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now that you mention it....I have seen alot of foreign soldiers that use the AK as their only battle rifle for decades using AR accessories so there must be a need for them to improve upon the design...there are alot of AKs in Chechnya with M4 stocks, heck the Palestinian Authority has tri-rail hanguards, and the Bulgarians in Iraq are using Tango Down vertical foregrips, and the Chinese even though genetically they may have the smaller peepee you are talking about just love the TAPCO folding stock...NOT 
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Easy there.....yeah, sometimes people do tend to pile onto guys who do that, but most of us who have been into AK's for a long time appreciate the KISS principle of them and when newer AK owners, mostly AR guys at heart, start putting the cheap Tapco AR stuff on them, it annoys us. A while back I started a thread on AK snobbery, and I am a self admitted Kalashnisnob. I really appreciate the work that goes into getting an AK to look like an actual military issue rifle from one of the former Eastern Bloc countries. I have absolutely no problem with product improving the AK. Keep the system evolving. I've owned numerous Galils and Valmets, and if they were importable I'd own more. The Finns and the Israelis have taken the AK to some of the highest points. I have no problem with Marc Krebs doing his magic on the AK, or the newer Bulgarian and Russian mods to the Kalashnikov system. The Bulgarians are doing some really interesting things with their newer generation of AK's, including folding stocks and Galil style safeties. What we, the Kalashnisnobbers take most offense to, is someone taking a perfectly good rifle and slapping all kinds of cheap "trashco" gear on it in an attempt to turn the rifle into an AR. Good quality, sensible mods........no problem. Still, it's your rifle, your money, but don't expect alot of us cheer you on for putting a 4 position CAR style stock on a WASR. I don't like seeing people piling on a guy either, unless it's good natured and usually most of us have been around each other long enough here that we know when we're fooling around and just giving each other crap in a friendly way, and when it's a flame. Most of us Kalashnisnobbers are also the guys who own AR's and just shake our heads at the "gear-queery" attitude of a lot of other AR guys. Picatinny rails on top of picatinny rails and red dots and lights and lasers and grips and stuff. Maybe we're just all crotchety old curmudgeons, but hey, we're actually a pretty loveable bunch once you get to know us.......... 
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I completely understand wanting to adhere to or match milspec AK's, I love the originals as well. However, just because it is an AK, doesn't mean you can't make it better. Easier to shoot, more comfortable, actually attach a flashlight to it without duct tape, etc. For example, this is truly a thing of beauty: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/TheHomelandSoldier/post-3-1080421017.jpg But so is this: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/TheHomelandSoldier/BlackKTRPic.jpg |
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Sure, and like I said, I have no issues with the quality stuff that Krebs and guys like him are doing, or the Finnish mods on the new SAKO M95. This is indeed a very cool weapon.   But when guys start slapping the cheaply made crap on stuff because they want an AR or they want to make their AK just like their AR, that's when it becomes an "issue" to the Kalashnisnobs, of which, as I stated, I'm one of. |
| I like keeping nearly all the guns I come in contact with in stock or nearly stock configuration, AR's, AK's, etc. Even though it's nice to have one or two gadgets around, there's no need for most of it. I would be one of those weird individuals who'd get a A2 style AR and leave it in the traditional military configuration, no lights, red dots or rails as a rule, but have them around to throw on if I feel like it. |
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dalesimpson: It would be in reference to others feeling inadequate about what someone else posesses, along the same lines of insinuating something about somebody or insulting someone you don't even know, usually stems from having / being a little prick. But don't worry, I'm sure you're fine... ETA: 
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Yeah, I notice this growing a little on this side of the board. Still, the AK side tends to be a little lighter in terms on blasting someone. But, I'm sure you will experience what most here already have who got into the Tapco/AR-like add-ons... you'll probably eventually change your mind. The more you start to use and appreciate the AK the more you will see the beauty of the weapon in its natural state. Just my .02 
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One thing is, I see a lot of people with the same opinion, do what you want with your AK, there is a big difference between that and flaming others 'cause you have too many cyber-muscles. I agree with do what is your cup of tea, but you won't see me, or any other mature individual, insulting someone they don't even know. ETA: And one more thing, I'm sure if the Bosnians, Chechnyans, Palestinians, and Chinese could all afford to put flashlights and red dots on all of their rifles, they would. And AR's, being the only "appropriate" platform for doo-dads, well, they weren't / aren't manufactured with all that stuff on there either. Like I said before, the all natural / milspec / untainted aK's are the shit, but so are the ones with the accessories, and I agree, as long as the accessories are not junk. |
| Templar, I see no AR parts on the AKs in the last pic. For me the issue is "the AR stock, on an AR, is a buffer tube, it is a compramise because a folder wont work" now why would you put that on the AK? I have no problem with home grown mods of neccesity, I have rails screwed onto my AMD handguard because it is a home/farm defence gun and a light is a neccesity. I'm working on a rail for my gas tube now for a red dot. I love to see what yanky ingenuity can create. I hate to see a bunch of posers buying a bunch of plastic garbage from Tapco and trying to make their AK look like the AR they couldn't afford. Basicly, I just hate the AR stock on an AK. |
| You would put a collapsable stock on an AK because it is now adjustable, not just "no stock / or stock". (And you actually get cheek weld) The empty buffer tube is a huge storage compartment, and, the Krebs rifle pictured above costs more than an average AR, so it's not always a matter of not being able to afford it. Sometimes it's a matter of getting all of the features in a rifle you want, without having to buy an AR to use them. |
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I'm a Kalashisnob. But I'm more of a traditionalist when it comes to every firearm not just AKs. I like my guns to be simple without all kinds of stuff on them. I could see why someone would want a scope or a red dot but that's about it. An M1A dressed in American wal-nut is the way to go. An AR-15 just the way it is, it has great sights and works as is. An AK is great with laminated furniture or synthetic if you like to beat it up. See the pattern? Hey like others have said...if you want to add all kinds of plastic do-da's to your AK then fine but don't expect people that hate it to lie and say it looks great. |
If the Russians went and put an M4 stock on the AK series, every freaking Kalashnisnob on the block would do it and marvel at the wonderous thing the Russians had come up with.  Of course, if your M4 stock was black or OD green and not a Plum colored M4 stock you would still be an outcast...
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I got me a big peepee....and only original configuration AK's are cool.... But if you have a little peepee and want to put alot of stuff on your gun to compensate for having a tiny, miniscule, almost invisible peepee, go right ahead, I won't hold it against you!
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| When I reached the point in my own particular case of BRD that I felt the need to hang a mess of crap off my rifle, I bought an AR. Now I don't have to desecrate a perfectly beautiful AK by hanging a mess of shit off it. I guess what I am saying is that I like my AKs simple, just the way they were designed. |
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I had a real issue with people that put all the lickeys and chewies on their AR15s or M4gerys just to look cool. These jerks spend a couple grand on reflex sights, tac lights and lasers and cant hit the broad side of the barn at 10 feet with a shotgun. I was playing with my AK47 about 5 years ago and there was a guy that though he was the shit when it came to his AR. He wanted to shoot against me doing quickfire at 25 meters. Please keep in mind that I've been an infantry soldier now for 13 years so I've done this a time or 2. He kept bragging about how his AR would out shoot my AK. He asked to check his zero before he began. Meanwhile 85 rounds later he still isnt zeroed. I'll say this again in here for those of you that missed it in the AR forums. All the cool guy gear in the world wont save you if you cant master the basics. Learn the Iron sight first and then go on to the M68, holotechs and ACOGs. If not all your doing is making yourself look like the jackass you are. |
AR's were designed simple, and the people went and bolted a bunch of shit on them (and in the case of the carry handle, cut off and then rebolted it back on!) in the 40+ years since they were adopted... |
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Again with all the insinuations and accusations. I'll shoot with the rest of you, any time, I'll rip off the red dot and do just as well. Anyone want to try me? I live in Northern Illinois, I frequent Buffalo Range in Illinois and Willow Slough in Indiana. Let's meet. Bunch of big mouths around here, that's for sure. We can shoot all day, and my AK will shoot the same as yours, but as it starts to get dark, I'm going to turn my light on, and use the red dot, and hit the target. I'll shine my light on your "holier than thou" all original AK, so I can be reminded of how I should have gone traditional. If I have no battery power left, no problem, we'll both shoot in the dark, and hit nothing. All thing being equal, it is ridiculous to say that having a flashlight and red dot, etc. on an AK is "gay", considering those tools help accomodate all kinds of shooting, not just day spray and pray. I'll shoot YOUR AK, with traditional sites, just as well as you, and you can shoot mine. Any Takers? Talk shit when we're done. You don't have to say you like the way it looks, there's no place for that with AK's in general, but don't make obvious your ignorance by saying a little technology on a lot of hardcore rifle is "gay". |
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Woah man, I don't see anyone here giving you a ration, or attacking you, or saying your stuff is gay, or that you can't shoot. I think what genpowell71 was getting at was just know your equipment, use it, shoot with it, and if you put that stuff on there, fine, but don't do it just cause it looks "cool" and tactical and then not be able to use it. Where are you seeing people pounding on you?
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There does seem to be much more purist snobbery with the AK, than any other firearm. Just because AKs started out as blued steel and wood doesn't make it a crime to modify one from that form. The 1911 is also a classic military weapon made of traditional materials, but can you imagine being flamed for putting an ambi safety, or night sights, or a beavertail on a .45? I have tricked out, purpose built ARs, but I like the AK as a super rugged, KISS weapon. My only AK is a Norinco MAK-90 that started out life as a neutered thumbhole gun. I have no accessories on it, just black synthetic style furniture, and a surplus military AK sling. However, I got flamed when I posted pics of it, because it didn't have an original AK style grip on it. The grip I have on the gun makes it much more comofrtable to use with a better trigger reach and less fatigue. Does everyone like my gun? Nope. Do I care in the slightest? Nope again. I think most of the hostility comes from a perceived rivalry between AK and AR guys. Some of the AK guys, think that accessories are for ARs and that is what sets them apart from thier rival gunners. I consider myself an AR and AK guy and I don't care what anyone else likes on their weapon. |
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Templar, you seem like one hell of a nice guy, but I disagree. I think anyone reading this thread would agree that this has become a me against the insulters thing. I'm just trying to make a point. Things that make a rifle better, make it better. Both traditional, and tricked out AK's are cool. All AK's are cool. People can disagree, but there's no need for shit slinging, that's all. Not once have I insulted or negatively criticized any person in particular here, or their equipment, but have received the "gay rifle" and "compensating for lack of skills" comments. Just giving some of the shit slingers the opportunity to put up or keep their insults to themselves, that's all. I don't even care about me, so much, it's more of watching the rest of thenewcomers here, that may only be able to afford a WASR, with a Tapco folding stock on it, get flamed in other threads. Or even the guy that just doen't have the "original" pistol grip on his gun. It's just not a good thing, that's all. There's just a few problem children here, I know that, and I am just happy to call them out. ETA for poor typing. |
triburst, you had more guys saying they liked the SAW grip than didn't on your rifle....... Anyway, I have AK's with wood and AK's with synthetic, and I don't have a problem with all synthetic AK's or an AK with a light on it or stuff like that. I don't think most us here have issues with them either.........but it's all personal opinion and choice........go wtih what works for you. I have an Arsenal Inc. Classic with a nice set of Polish laminated stocks on it. I have a SLR-105A1 in 5.45x39mm with synthetic stocks on it. Both are guns I use in competition and on the range just foolin' around. If I could afford it I'd add a Krebs SAIGA all tricked out but I'd leave the CAR stock off and just use the traditional AK stock since it FITS ME BETTER. I'd also love to have one of the Arsenal Inc. SA-M7SF's, but again, not enough money right now. I'm definitely with the KISS principle on most any firearm. Mods are just fine, as long as they work for you. That includes AR's as well as AK's. I think some see good natured ribbing as hostility and it's not. |
THS, you are beginning to sound like a jerk. Think anyone can take a full power shot from you? I like my AK's in original clone configurations, maybe a Kobra red dot if appropriate. However I am in the process of putting together what I consider to be the ideal (for me) fighting carbine/urban rifle and - surprise! - it will be based on a stamped 5.56mm Arsenal rifle when they are available, and it will have an Aimpoint and a Streamlight and a short vertical grip. It will be my only "non-pure" AK but every mod will be for practical reasons that I have thought through after years of trial-and-error. So I guess that makes me bi. |
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I guess I'm bi too, because I love both, traditional and tricked out, and I'm not saying others should like both, I just don't see the need for "taunting' people. Thekatar: You're right, I'm a little more calm now, and apologize for any jerky behavior. I just think it's sad for people to try to make other people feel "wrong" for liking what they like. I think tradtional and KISS is the way to go, but so is the other option, that's all. I would never insult someone else's equipment because it's not what I like, that's all. Anyway, this was fun. On that note, here is the newest addition to the family, a Green KTR. (No Doo-dads, but a Flaslight IS going on it, as well as a sling.)  |
+2 I respect what people do to their rifles 100%. I yet have to understand what the purpose of a flashlight on a rifle is? Maybe its cool for running around the house but when you are being shot at I dont think its a great idea to turn that thing on!!! And not to forget it adds weight to the rifle. Maybe if you are SWAT where you need to see in dark spots and shining people in the face to blind them is a good thing... There I see it as a plus, other than that I still see it as a useless thing weight adding thing on a rifle. |
| The Surefire G2's weigh almost nothing, and considering I consider my AK's my "all purpose" rifles, i like them to have illumination. Try shooting at dusk even with just open sights, the light makes a world of difference, just don't shine it at unopportune times. |
Well, as long as we're talking lights and tactics, lights are essential if you're planning on using the rifle in a defensive situation. One of the cardinal rules of gun safety is to be aware of your target and what's beyond it. If you hear a bump in the night and you need to respond to it with a rifle, I'd personally very much want a light on it. You don't use it as a spot light, you use it for target identification and disorentation. I'm happy with my AK's the way they are, but I might have to get another one to mount a light to and turn into a dedicated Zombie rifle. 
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| The rifle that I am designing is going to be built around certain parameters, one of which is low-light/nighttime conditions. This is also the carbine that I intend to keep at my bedside to protect my home. A high-quality, small, lightweight high-intensity light will be an asset in the urban fight. My engagement envelope is the length of an average room in an average American house out to 150 yards, low lighting condidtions, urban/suburban terrain. |
| Here we have a great example of what happened over in AR land. I make a comment about knowing your rifle and how to shoot it and I get flamed. I have AM a kalashnisnob and I am proud to be one. I will yell that the AK is a great rifle till the day that I cant shoot it anymore. And I also will outshoot anyone with my unmod AK. |
BTW Templar, this part has you written all over it. I guess I need to get on the list for more than just an SLR-108 now... 
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Well, not to completely hijack the thread , but sure, no problem. Bear in mind it's gonna be a while, probably several months. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AK snobbery... (Page 1 of 2)
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