AK Sponsor
Posted: 4/29/2005 5:34:20 AM EDT
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Hello one and all, Have a question: I've been building a few AKs, from kits and OOW receivers, for myself over the past few months, and not to brag too much I would say I build a pretty nice looking AK ! ! I'm even waiting on my approval for my new baby -- SBR-AK, 7.62, folding stock, and 12 inch barrel.  Anyway . . . . a few of my shooting buddies now want me to build them an AK. They'll buy the receiver (on the 4473), they'll buy the kit, and they'll buy the "compliant" parts. All have to do is put it together and give it a couple of nice, even coats of Brownell's Aluma-Hyde (my favorite ! ) So . . . . is this legal ? ? ? "Friends" buy all the parts -- I just make it run. So ? ? ? ? ? ? |
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Why would it be illegal?? It basically the same thing as mating a AR upper and lower. The receiver has already been transfered so you are not making a new firearm, your just assembling it I would think its only illegal to have a "friend" bend your flat if your not using a FFL receiver, but thats it. |
| If the receiver is in your friends name, then there shouldn't be a problem. Afterall the receiver is technically the firearm and not anything else so your really not assembling a new firearm that has to be re- registered with the ATF or that you need a license to build. But if the receiver is in your name and you're building and selling them, then you'll have a problem. It's the same with an AR. The receiver is the firearm and adding fire control parts and an upper receiver for a friend because he doesn't know how to does not constitute manufacturing, it's called helping out. |
big +1 Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, now teach him to fish  Kinda kool that our sorry legal state of affairs actually works to everyone's benefit in this case. This case only afaik. Blackops_1. |
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Isn't being classified as a "manufacture" as a person or business that actually produces the receiver?? i.e, sheet metalstamped and folded into a AK, or a 0% AR forging milled to a complete lower. Putting together others parts kits and using there papered receiver is just assembling the parts. |
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I am aware of no law requiring you to be liscensed as a gun smith (at least no federal law, and no state laws in the states I have lived in). Building a parts kit on a reciever that your friend bought on a 4473 is not manufacturing, no more than fitting a new barrel on a 1911 is. You should be perfectly legal to do exactly what you are considering. However if you are talking about building on recievers that you have built or purchased then you would be illegal. Would you need a car dealers liscense to put an aftermarket air-filter in your friends car if you charged him $10? The BATFE has made it very clear that they consider a stripped reciever a controled item, the rest of the gun is no more than accesories. If your friend buys a reciever he has brought you a rifle, building it up is no more than adding accesories, you have not changed the legal status of the weapon (assuming your build conforms with all of the laws pertaining to configurations), therfore you are not manufacturing anything only modifying it. As for gunsmith liscenses, you would be astounded at how few gunsmiths are actually certified or liscensed. |
Yes you're right, but the point is that if you're going to do this as a business, you need a license. If you build the AK for a friend as a favor that's ok, but if you start charging people money, start pumping out 20, 30 builds a week, then there might be a problem. |
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At that point you would probably need a business liscense and a location that is zoned for that type of indusrty, but as far as firearms law as long as you are not manufacturing rifles you don't need a FFL or SOT. Any business that you set up needs to be properly liscensed and local business laws and regulations followed. That type of business would certainly raise some eyebrows, but would not be illegal. The magnitude of your endeavor would really determine the course of actin taken. building up 10-15 kits over a couple of months is no big deal, but as refferenced above that number everyweek is going to get the busy-bodies in your AO riled up and they are going to cause you headaches if you don't have your ducks in a row. The issue here is not general business liscenseing, but firearms liscensing, and no matter the scale of the opertaion if you are not manufacturing recievers then you are not manufacturing rifles, and even if you have a hundred customers a day bring thier kits and recievers to you to have built up and pay you to do it, you don't need a FFL. Of course if you are doing any serious volume at all it would be foolish not to get an FFL and start offering your customers the option of buying a complete rifle from you, that way you could standardize a product line and help keep costs down while retaining the value and quality your customer are coming to you for in the first place. |
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ATF FAQ Building a kit would be considered repairing. If you take compensation, a six pack, dinner, etc., you would be considered "engaging in the business". If you several for friends you would most likely be considered "engaging in the business". Yes, I know the "Authorities" would have to find out. Ask yourself, how tight-lipped will your friends be about it? Do you think some Elmer Fudd who's scared of anything that's not a trap gun or some do-gooder neighbor won't find out and be horrified you're building AKs in your basement and handing them out to your friends? That's exactly how it will be heard regardless of how it's said originally. Not to mention you've posted it here. I'd bet a month's pay both the ATF and For one or two people I KNOW won't rush out and say "HEY YA'LL, look what AZATHOTH built for me" I might do it, but wouldn't say anything let alone post about it on the internet. I would invite them over for a build party and supervise/help them That's my 2 cents worth. |
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If you take compensation, a six pack, dinner, etc., you would be considered "engaging in the business". If you several for friends you would most likely be considered "engaging in the business". No you wouldnt some people worry way tooooo much... Just build the dang thing and ask for a 6 pack in return. |
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if you are doing it for your primary source of income then you'd need a license. if you're just having a couple buddies over who want you to help them out and you end up doing most of the work there is no problem even if they give you a $20 or a 12 pack of beer for your troubles. that is called helping a friend in need. |
+1 (not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.....) A gunsmith FFL is only needed if you're "engaged in the business" IMHO. As long as you're not charging money & your friends aren't leaving the gun in your possession then I'd say you're in the clear. And just to make sure limit it to your immediate shooting buddies, no friends of friends, etc. Even if you were to bend a flat or weld up a 80% laser cut blank for them I'd say you'd be ok as long as they were present & were directing your work. If you did all the work & they just show up afterwards & collect the finished product then you'd have a problem legally. Otherwise every single person who worked for a gun manufacturer would have to have their own individual manufacturer FFL. |
| you have nothing to worry about if they buy you a beer or grill you some burgers in return for the favor. thats what you do to return favors. no one is gonna jump all over you for it. if you start charging tons of money like they have said, thats when you are gonna be operating a buissness. |
this is a very good point!... hinking.gif also a good reason not to post pictures of your weapons cache and talk about your S.H.T.F. scenario. |
 Tin Foil- check! I think thats the ATF knocking right now!! 
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also a good reason not to post pictures of your weapons cache and talk about your S.H.T.F. scenario.
Build a man a fire and he is warm for a night . Set a man on fire and he is warm the rest of his life . |
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