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Posted: 2/25/2005 3:25:31 AM EDT
| Man wearing bulletproof vest goes toe to toe with police and civilian after murdering wife.Aparently he was also equipped with an AK-47 assault rifle but I am not sure if that was what he used in the battle.The story I heard on the news was not detailed but reporters said that the man was to appear in court with the wife and son but instead opened fire on the wife killing her on the steps of the courthouse.When he attempted to murder the son he was fired upon by a civilian who had CCW permit (Take that antigun politicians).Due to the fact that the man was wearing a vest he could not be put down easy.I do not know how they finaly killed him but news reports that after exchanging over 12 rounds with the man police chased him down and killed him.They also reported that the man was prepared for a battle as his secondary weapon was the AK-47.They did not say what he used to kill the wife and fire at police with.Kudo's to the onery Texen civilian who was armed and ready for action.Police say he /she saved the life of the son as he opened fire on the man as he was just about to kill the son.Gosh I would love to live in Texas where nearly everyone and there momma is armed. |
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I was listening to the news last night and this morning. No details have emerged yet on how many rounds were fired from the AK rifle. My hat goes off to the brave civilian with CCW for standing up to the assailant. The best thing we can do to honor his bravery is apply this as a lesson for everyone who decides to legally carry. - Having a CCW does not magically make you an excellent marksman. If you draw your weapon, you better be deadly accurate and your concealed weapon should be of a caliber that will take down your assailant. Remember, 9mm sometimes does nothing more than "piss-off" your assailant. Nothing beats the knockdown power of the .45 ACP - It's a proven fact that the AK varients chambered in 7.62 and 5.45 have the capability of accepting hi capacity magazines and normally come in the "thirty-round" flavor. Most handguns in 9mm have 15 rounds at best and .45 ACP have 13 to 14 if it's a widebody lower. Simple math shows you're already outgunned from the beginning when you go up against an AK rifle. Spend time at the range and remember that it's not how much lead you blow downrange, but how much actually hits your intended target. KF |
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slanted and biased but they do talk about wilson (the civ). www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/25/tx.town.square.shootings.ap/index.html Courthouse shootout leaves three dead Friday, February 25, 2005 Posted: 8:05 AM EST (1305 GMT) TYLER, Texas (AP) -- A man angry about being sued for unpaid child support opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle outside a courthouse, killing his ex-wife and a man trying to help the couple's adult son. The gunman, 43-year-old David Hernandez Arroyo Sr., was killed Thursday afternoon in a gun battle with officers a few miles away after wounding his son and three law enforcement officers, one critically. The son had been acting as a mediator between his parents, police said. Police estimated that Arroyo, who had a history of spousal abuse and weapons violations, shot 50 rounds in the historic town square. He was wearing a military flak jacket and a bulletproof vest. "He definitely came well-armed and prepared," police Chief Gary Swindle said. "We do understand there had been some threats made by him the previous week." But the attorney representing Maribel Estrada, 41, said he doesn't believe she thought her ex-husband was dangerous. Estrada worked at a meat packing plant in Tyler and raised a 17-year-old and a 6-year-old with the help of her eldest son, Joshua Wintters said. The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds. A sheriff's deputy, Sherman Dollison, 28, was in critical condition after being shot in the liver, lungs and legs; a sheriff's lieutenant and a Tyler police detective were treated and released. "One of the deputies at the scene said if it hadn't been for Mr. Wilson," said Sheriff J.B. Smith, "the son would be dead." Friends who visited the son in the hospital Thursday night said he told them that his father was always open about having a collection of weapons. Aurea Seanez said the son told them, "And look now, he used them on us." Wilson, a gun enthusiast who once owned a shooting range, intervened after Arroyo killed his ex-wife, witnesses said. Swindle, the police chief, said Wilson shot at Arroyo several times but his rounds weren't penetrating the armor. "They traded shots, missing each other, and then the gunman hit Wilson and Wilson went down," Tyler Morning Telegraph publisher Nelson Clyde III said in Friday's editions of the newspaper. Clyde watched the shooting from a nearby restaurant. "The gunman walked up to Wilson and shot him while he was on the ground," Clyde said. "I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was sickening." Estrada and Arroyo divorced in January 2004 after 22 years of marriage. Wintters wouldn't say why the two divorced. Tyler, the seat of Smith County, is a city of about 86,000 located about 95 miles east of Dallas. Tyler calls itself the "Rose Capital of the Nation" and attracts about 100,000 visitors each October to the Texas Rose Festival. |
Thanks for adding the original story.I got only bits and pieces.I did not know that he used the AK and I also did not know that the CCW carrier was killed. |
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Arroyo Sr. wore a military flak jacket and a bulletproof vest. Local news web sitewww.nbc5i.com/news/4229629/detail.html I wonder what the police used to shoot him with, maybe a head or neck shot? |
Compared to no carry, it's a fat step up. Justifies my P3AT too. In this case, one may assume that after a few shots by the bad guy there was nobody else near him and shooting in his direction probably had a very low risk of hitting anybody else. Reads more like a fire away occasion than a need for a clean pick next to a hostage. |
My question exactly. He previously owned a gun range so he had to have been proficient in the use of handguns you would think. He probably did not adequately assess the situation (body armor and flak jacket) and rushed into it, and found himself outgunned. |
Except soft body armor. When body armor is in play a pistol becomes next to useless unless you can score a CNS hit. The difference between a 9mm and 45 at that point is moot being as the 45's only advantage to the 9 is the fact that it will cut a bigger hole and cause more blood loss, in theory. The 45 may have slightly more energy than the 9 but neither will have any "knockdown" power as you put it. |
| Here is a news site that has video of the pursuit and shooting of the gunman LINK click on the police dash cam video |
not if the BG was wearing a level III or higher vest--fn 5-7 would not do crap +1 for .45acp and head shots |
I guess they mean it when they say, "Don't mess with Texas". |
| Did the kill shot come from the driver of the cruiser that was behind and to the right of the truck? You can see the driver of that car shooting as the perp was getting out of the car, then he suddenly pulls forward and around. Or did the shot come from off camera from the left? |
I'd say the kill was from the cruiser directly behind him, then the cruiser circled around to either get out the way or to get a better shot, probably both. |
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Interesting dilemma...facing an AK or maybe an AR and a vest-wearing bad guy at across-the -room distance with only a handgun. What WOULD you do? I have studied this theoretical scenario for many years now, and have come to the conclusion(s) that: a) You cannot "out-range" him...no need to move back b) You cannot "out-penetrate" him (good chance his gun can and will penetrate YOUR cover and / or vest) c) He has twice or more the ammo capacity you do...although with a high-cap pistol you may buy yourself some "head-down" time, it won't be long d) While it is all well and good to speak of head shots at longer range, the reality is that such is not likely with a bobbing, weaving target who is shooting very powerful rounds at you, and most likely rapidly taking your cover away a piece at a time Not a good situation to find oneself in! (Godspeed, Mark Allen Wilson...you died a MAN, and I salute you!) I have come to the conclusion that under such circumstances, the best of several bad choices is to rush the BG...close the distance rapidly, (hopefully after a distraction) with some lateral movement thrown in as well, and then, if the first few CM shots are not working, "stitch" him from top to bottom. Just like assaulting into an ambush, closing with the BG is the last thing he will expect...and the one thing he most likely never planned for. Now at least your pistol will have a decent chance against his rifle, especially as you close to within feet, rather than yards. Human reaction times are pretty slow when the action is not anticipated beforehand. SAS developed the "fast rush" technique and has proven it in actual situations more than once...takes only a second or two, and at "in the room" distance you are firing at the face / head area the entire time. This is not to say that you should leave good, solid, cover to perform a suicide manuever, but rather if you find yourself stuck at, say, across-the-car distances, take some positive action...as Clint (Dirty Harry) once observed..."the color of pity is red...BLOOD red"! I am certainly open for other suggestions on positive action in such a fast-breaking scenario. |
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