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Posted: 1/10/2004 8:45:01 AM EDT
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OK sage group. I'm seriously contemplating another AK purchase. I presently have a 7.62x39 pre-ban Chinese underfolder< pic in the post your AK pix thread >. I've been toying with modding the present rifle but have switched to thinking another rifle is probably what I should do. I'm thinking an "built" AK 74 and hopefully with a folding Krink stock. I figure if the SWB sunsets I can get the stock to fold. I'm really into the size advantage a folder gives. Here's the question: I'm leaning to 5.45 as the caliber. Talk me into it or into a 5.56. Please qualify your reasons. Once I make my mind up I'll give the first pass to the forum supporter 'smiths. |
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Here's a completely biased and unobjective opinion: AK-74's were designed for the 5.45x39 caliber, not 5.56x45. 5.56x45 is the standard NATO caliber, and for the most part, the only reason AK's are chambered in that caliber is for the U.S. domestic market. From an objective standpoint, I think that it's a lot easier to find mags for the AK-74 in 5.45x39 than it is for a 5.56x45 AK. Finally, back to the unobjective again, I'm not a big fan of re-chambered "assault" style weapons. An AR-15 is meant to be 5.56x45, and an AKM/AK-47 is meant to be 7.62x39. 7.62x39 AR-15's are among the stupidest things on the planet. The same goes for 5.56x45 AK's, in my opinion. (And that's why I'll never buy one of those stupid .308 Dragunovs - it's supposed to be 7.62x54R, dammit!) |
This is likely the case for Arsenal AKs and Chinese imports, but there is precedent for the military use of 5.56 AKs - most notably with the Galil. The latest Russian AK in 5.56, the AK-101, was developed to compete in the military markets of countries switching to NATO standards after the end of the Cold War. I agree that the 7.62x39 AR is an abomination and nearly heresy. |
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A 5.56 AK has a advantage that the ammo is everywhere.. readily available and also a good chance that you will be able to find it in a survival situation.. I can not say that for the 5.45 although the ammo is available on the market at a cheap price... But can we say that if the shit hits the fan? Will you be able to find it after you expend what you have on you in unfamiliar territory... after all we can not expect to carry 2-3 cases of the stuff on us as we run out the door. I feel that its a logistical problem if you have a uncommon calibre rifle amongst friends who will most likely have 5.56 or 7.62x39 weapons. I feel that you will most likely run into 5.56 weapons and ammo. This is how I feel and its just MY oppinion.. I look at the whole ball of wax and in a larger scale when it comes to weapons. I personally dont like the 5.56 in its ammo configuration that the US military has today but logistically its the way to go as far as resupply goes.. -AK action for reliability and durability -5.56 ammo for my best odds at in-the-field resupply from friendly/non-friendly sources. We all have our reasons for picking the caibres and weapons that we pick. You pick what weapon you want in accordance to what goal/vision you have of your long term survival and this also goes along with ammo choices. I personally would love to have the AK-74 and Russian military version of the ammo they have in 5.45 but none is available and logistically it would be foolish to go into a long term survival plan with a odd-ball calibre like the 5.45... This oppinion is based soley on MY VISION of what I picked as my "go" rifle when the shit hits the fan. I am a long term planner and a bit of a survivalist if you will so that is the basis for my calibre choice... Comments? Discusion? |
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I dunno fastdog, the calibers are fairly similar so it might not matter a whole lot which way you decide. If you are a traditionalist, then you'd get the 5.45 - with a sidefolding stock and laminated handguards you'd have a good approximation of a Soviet-Afghan War era AKS-74. 5.45 ammo is cheap, not much more than 7.62, but it is not as widely available. You can walk into any gun shop and buy a variety of 5.56, but it's not likely you could do the same with 5.45. A 5.56 AK will be at least as accurate or better than a 5.45, though maybe not by much. The magazine situation is simpler and less expensive for 5.45. Replacement parts like 5.56 bolt heads cost more. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I don't know how substantial any of these issues might be for you. Maybe you should just flip a coin. |
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Besides the recoil and accuracy advantages of smallbore AKs over 7.62x39, I prefer 5.45. It has some case taper to aid the AK reliability, and there are plenty of great working cheap mags. Even if your local dealers are not 5.45 friendly, look at easy case shipping from ammoman.com, dansammo, aimsurplus just to name a few in the E US. Level trajectory, penetration and energy delivery are easily argued as in the same ballpark with 5.45 and 5.56. With 10 cent commie plinker ammo, you can get 2 to 2.5" groups frequently from a 5.45 or 5.56 AK, and match 5.56 ammo is likely to gain only 1/2" more due to the AKs roomier chambers and clunkier gas system compared to an AR. Unless you have a real issue with ammo supply not being at the local hardware store, and want to see more flame from a short bbl, go 5.45. And for your next smith question, go SEAK. Had one just like it built last year, fave out of about 10 calibers and many guns. Get the mag and scope deals also. |
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Thanks for the responses and thoughtful ones at that! Ammo availability from a survivalist thought isn't a large one for me. If such a thing were a real situation I'd have to cross it when I got there. 1K rounds of 7.62 for the AK I own, and 1K rounds of ammo for my second AK should suffice until another weapon could perhaps be "acquired", let's hope this is never the case any of us would need to face. RS39, your impressions are much in line with what I've been thinking in my research so far. Mag availability is something important to me. There's room for another AK at my home and less recoil is part of the decision process. When I shoot, I shoot a lot of ammo. The metal underfolding AK I have in 7.62 does get me tender shouldered particularly if I shoot 4 or 5 clips one day and go back to shoot the next. The SEAK would be a good way to go, but the buttstock is not the folder type. SInce there's no custom optioning in the SEAK deal I haven't hopped aboard. I'm big on spending money once rather than twice. ORF looks like a good outfit and I'm open to the experience of folks here. It also strikes me that theres a lot of "junk" out there from some places when it comes to AK buildups. Heat treating , etc. seems a wise approach if the receiver needs it. Thanks to those who have shared their thought so far, and any that share their thoughts pursuant. |
They are in Ft Myers/Naples area I think. That would be a couple of hour drive south of me as I'm in Tampa. Would I take this as a possible place, among others, that you might recommend? My impression was that they did 7.62 and 5.56 Nato... haven't seen 5.45 on their site. I try to support good shops that support the sites I look to for advice and good reading. PM me if you have specific favorites. Looking for the right rifle put together by the right folks at the right price. Thanks again! This is a good place! |
Is Mark online here or is there any contact info for his shop? Thanks for the info BTW... post-ban is all foreign territory for me. |
Is Mark online here or is there any contact info for his shop? Thanks for the info BTW... post-ban is all foreign territory for me. |
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www.surplusfirearms.com lots of C&R and variety of military items, shop is better than his web site even on vacation, I find guns :) |
Thanks. It's om Ulmerton and I know exactly where it is, though I haven't been to the shop. I'll give them a shout as well as others. I'm hoping he has somethig a bit more in my target price than the $5500.00 AK74 on his site. :-> |
You were luckier than I. I made several calls to the shop today...no answer and no machine. Too bad. He might have made a sale. Tried Ohio Rapid Fire as well, but suspect they are truly closed as their site states. |
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