User Panel
Posted: 9/22/2003 1:35:18 PM EDT
You posted this over at ak47dot:
"For all us purists Kalashnisnobs out there, figure you would want to know that Ted Marshall can do IZHMASH, Tula, Bulgarian Arsenal, and Radom arsenal codes. Along with Cyrillic selector marking as done by Tula, IZHMASH, and Bulgarian Arsenal. These services are only offered if he is doing the complete build. Ted also does Saiga mag well dimples, and can add or remove trigger "humps" etc, yadda, yadda ding dong. I don't know anyone else that has ever offered these services, discounting "informer" of course." Are those pictures of his work? Contact info? Thanks |
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Well. If he's recomended by the staff at AK 47.net you can bet his career is in the toilet. Then again it may just be the new name for GaGu.
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you really think gary did that work, himself?
yeah...the chicken coop was well stocked with cyrillic stamps...you just couldn't find them untill you removed the piles of chicken droppings. |
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For what it's worth, if Ekie IS staff at ak-47.net, he seems to be a straight-shooter from what I've read.
Anyone else able to back this up? |
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I know he post here and there. But I can't ask him over there for some strange reason. Oh yeah, I was banned by a fake sea mammal.
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Well, for what it is worth, I will chime in here and say that yes Ted Marshall is a straight shooter. I do his photography for him and help him with research. He is developing a web page slowly but surely. He is now working full time as a Class II and gunsmith, specializing in AKs, and I GAURANTEE you that no other AK smith out there goes (or 'knows' for that matter) the lengths to which Kalashnikov purists demand of their builds. His finishes are top notch and workmanship second to none, and he has done some very difficult builds, and his attention to the details is impecible (for those guys who care).
I will link to his web page when it is done. I just photo'd some builds for him recently, including a post ban AK-105 where he lengthened and re-clocked the Krink style flash hider to make the legal barrel lenght, but still have the look with the 105 gas block etc. He can also shorten the booster to give the real look for the guys who want an SBR AK105. At this time he is even supplying/selling the Russian rear stock trunions and black plastic folders for people who are doing AK100 series builds. His engraving capabilies are excellent too, selector markings, arsenal codes etc...almost too good for AKs! -C p.s. [email protected] tell him Chamberlin sent you (so I can get huge kickbacks! Kidding! ;) , and please understand it may take him a while for email correspondence. I have been trying to make him understand the importance of good email communication these days! He is well aware of the Guch situation, and has already fixed/repaired builds from him and a few other AK smiths too. |
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Ekie is one of the good guys over there from what I've seen. He posts on several of the gun boards, I respect folks who run the same screen-name board to board. (not saying it's wrong to use different names, just nice to easily identify folks you already 'know')
Hey, dot.nutz is an o.k. site so long as your views regarding God, Guns and Government reflect those of the ASSHOLES who run it. (edit: and you do know that LAGC is HDR's personal homemade alter ego.) Trash the site if necessary but don't trash the members, especially the good contributers (not the CASH contributers, the ones who share their knowledge). We want the good ones to feel welcome when they find their new home. |
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Ekie is no doubt a great guy to do business with, and have around. He has been offered on more than one occasion to have his own "corner" here. When he is ready, the offer still stands.
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Looks like I am a little late to jump in on this, and all questions appeared to be answered. And thank you for the kind words, and yada, yada, ding dong.
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I am new to the AK thing here, though I have had a Romanian WUM for a few years now. I am confused, though.
How is it OK, and a stand up thing, to be counterfeiting parts? I don't get it. Larry |
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Well why would you buy a Pre-built $1000 Krinkov from Ohio Rapid fire, or In Range or anybody? Using your views, all those guns are counterfits aren't they? They aren't real military Krinkovs made in Russia, which are the "the only TRUE Krinkov" right???? <sarcasm>
Counterfitting means you are copying something and offering it to others as something it is not. If Gunsmith X makes a Krinkov out of your WUM2 for example using a bulgarian parts kit, and then tries to sell it off as a real Russian factory Krinkov.... then Gunsmith X is counterfitting something. Ekie and the others are REQUESTING parts to be made to look like the real thing for their own personal use, not to trick someone into buying something that has been falsified. That is all. -C |
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I have never seen another area of collecting or hobby where faking maker's marks is OK; Making something *look like* something else is usually OK, but not faking marks.
OK, if that's what floats y'alls boat. I can't say I understand what you would want with fake-marked parts since you know it's not real, though. Related question: How do you all figure to prevent someone from claiming it is real when you sell it (or die)? And no, the "builds" aren't counterfeits, since they do not claim to be something they are not. They are "replicas" or copies. |
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Its pretty simple. Do some research and you will find that no semi auto Russian AK's have ever been imported into this country with Russian military arsenal markings.
Can you buy a Russian semi auto AK? Yes. Is it marked like a military AK? No. Brick |
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Not to mention, *if* you know what you are looking at, those super nice markings are perfect in comparison to RUssian markings. Many people have been fooled by the old Nazi Waffenampt stamps of recent, but as Brick said, there hasn't been any Russian military semi auto marked guns in the country, for starters, and the markings don't look quite right if you know what to look for.
But bottom line, yea it floats some guy's boats. -C |
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those clone markings look like they were cnc milled on a computer controlled engraving machine.
as chamberlin says, i doubt they exactly replicate the original stamped markings. ohio, i gotta agree with you. even though guys like chamberlin and ekie are very ethical and wouldn't pull a fast one, i think the faux markings are nutzy cuckoo. and i can guarandamntee you that somewhere down the line, someone, somewhere will see one of these 'faux russians' being sold and represented as a 'gen-u-ine roosian smuggled in, battlefield bringback that was once owned by general zukhov and was only used in the battle of grozny on sundays to to kill a few chechan terrorists...see that scratch? that got there when the general had to bayonet a ghost as his command post was over run!' what chamberlin and ekie are forgetting is that not all men are as honest or interested in cloning a russian ak for the sake of just having one as they are. brick, chamberlin, ekie, me and a percentage of the site members know there were no 'real' russian semi's imported, but the rest of the american gun buying public. guys will gladly invest a couple hundred bucks to make a couple thousand. i've seen this done too many times to count. winchesters. colt saa's. garands. m1a's. fals. ar15's. thompsons. lugers. we all know the tales and have seen the scams ourselves. hell, i here tell there are guys selling reconfigured mak-90's for a grand as 'pre-bans'. i once knew a guy that paid $400 to have his imbel receiver marked EXACTLY like a german g1. there are guys on 1919a4.com that want their right side plate marked EXACTLY like a ww2 era browning built at rock island armory. i know guys that convert their tigrs into faux svd's. no biggee. like the man said...whatever floats your boat. it's all good. |
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The stampings on the Ak parts sort of reminds me of knock-off designer handbags that west-Africans are selling on 5th Ave in NYC. :)
Hey! If someone wants their rifle to look as close to the real thing, I say, more power to them! |
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Well, I'm glad to see I'm not completely alone here.
Just a thought; On the military history side of the collecting we often need to make a part, a bayonet, something that just doesn't exist anymore. When that is done, it is considered "proper" to make it either out of non-standard material, or mark it in a hidden spot with the date/place of manufacture, in such a way that if it is ground/defaced it is obvious that something happened. We don't want to inadverdantly make a fake to fool someone later, you see. I know that people "know" now, but in a hundred years? If it's not documented or marked, it's open to misunderstanding, to be generous. Larry |
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Sure there are unsavory people out there who would pull a fast one like that, but if the buyer is stupid enough to believe a high-tale story then I have a bridge to sell them too! LOL!
I can't feel sorry for anyone who doesn't do their homework before they buy a rifle. As the old saying goes..."there's a sucker born every minute and there's 3 to take him"! |
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It is simply a service provided by Ted Marshall for Kalashnisnobs. If you have to ask, then you ain't going to get it brother, and the post ain't directed to you. Thank you for the concern just the same.
BTW, the only individuals that could be fooled into thinking one of these project rifles was a real deal would be the same guy that would not know what these arsenal codes are in the first place. Besides, the engraving on the side of the receivers that reads: FEG HUNGARY MODEL SK-100 SER# XXXX ARSENAL USA HOUSTON, TX CAL. 7.62X39 Just might give it away. Of course that is takeing for granted they can read. |
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Ekie's point is well taken; after all, who would be fooled? * Back in the '70's I made up a couple of fun Ruger single actions using stainless parts on blued guns. Kinda liked the "two-tone" effect. Traded them off to a dealer at one point for something I wanted more at the time. Come to find these same Rugers on his table at the old Chagrin Falls gun show with "rare factory prototype" labels. Yeah, who would be fooled? * Coles is offering WaA-marked WWII Star Bs, carefully avoiding a direct declaration of provenance. Anyone with the right book could look up the serial number and find that these pistols are from the Bulgarian, not Nazi, contracts. Who would be fooled? * A few years ago a Gas Trap Garand was being offered at big bucks as an original. Anyone who'd been recording gas trap serial numbers for a few years knew that the S/N in question had been a gas port rifle some years earlier. So, who would be fooled? * I built my Barnett gas trap kit on an IHC receiver to avoid any hint of deception. What do I hear? "Gee, I never knew IHC made a gas trap!" Hey, who would be fooled? * Recently on a gun auction site a high-dollar "original" Mauser sniper was on offer. Seems as though the same rifle had been documented a few years earlier in a different configuration--with pictures. Sure, who would be fooled? * Ya want more? I got a million of 'em. Heck, I even bought a Wedgwood vase knowing it probably wasn't Wedgwood, the protestations of the seller to the contrary. I was inquisitive, and willing to pay for my education. To give Ekie his due, you'd have to be really, really stupid to take one of these cosmetic replicas as more than it is, as you can't alter the original mfr/location/SN markings. But, I've not found limits to human ignorance, nor to the avarice of those seeking to exploit that ignorance. So, while this is perhaps a special case, the whole counterfeiting business makes me just a bit queasy. Your mileage will vary. Best regards, Walt Kuleck Fulton ARmory |
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walt, you and i must go to the same shows and see the same fakes.
i was at akron/summit county today and saw a gen-u-wine polish underfolder with a welded in front trunnion...just the way radom did them!! bwahahahahaha! i also saw a gen-u-wine mauser 98 low turret...hmmm, those mounts sure looked like the re-pops going around. but the price tag didn't. most of us take a wee bit of pride in the knowledge and expirience we have been fortunate enough to aquire. sadly, i would have to rate guys like ekie and chamberlin (and from the sounds of it, ohio, also) in the top 1/2 of 1%. we read books. we study firearms that interest us. we keep our mouths shut and listen when those wiser than us are giving the masses a schooling. but that is patently NOT the case in the real world. like ohio, i can give you tales from auctions, sales, gun stores and shows that would curl your toes...and the honest men that were snookered out of a few more dollars over the "easy to spot" fakes that were mis-represented. i have always said that the buyer is responsible for his own actions, though. i still stand by that statement. FEG HUNGARY MODEL SK-100 SER# XXXX ARSENAL USA HOUSTON, TX CAL. 7.62X39 dude! you gots one of them thar rare hungarian-roosian gunz that was imported in the early 1960's by arsenal (that's factory code 23) houston?!?!?! awesome!!!! i heard that the roosians liked the feg receivers so much better than their own that they bought a bunch of them and had izhsmash build them up on those really fine bulgarian parts! |
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Hey, it could happen! After all, someone is buying all of those Jennings and High-Points.
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How the heck does he do the Saiga Dimples without weakening the steel or cracking the nearby spot welds?
That must be some feat alright. |
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I have not seen the Saiga dimples, so not sure what it looks like. Ted told me that is does distort the mag well opening, and it has to be reworked. It should be far enough away from the spot welds to not be a problem there.
There is a guy on ak-47.net that stamps his own dimples in the receivers he makes himself, and he don't think it is any big deal. |
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He is also designing dies for small dimples as well, for the older style look... I think heat is the key to making the stamping thing work properly...
-C |
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Thanks guys. I figured annealing had to be part of the process.
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all original commie receivers are stamped 'cold' in progressive dies (multi-station...i.e., blank, pierce, trim, form, trim, form, cam pierce, etc.) with the steel sheet stock in a soft state.
receivers are hardened after forming operations. adding the dimples after the receiver is form means one is doing an 'out of step' operation. stamping in the dimples (whether done to the 'hard'...hell, it's only in the high 20's or low 30's 'hard'...metal. not all THAT hard) 'draws' the steel. that is to say, it 'pulls' material away from where it needs to be as the dimple is formed. simply put, working bassackwards like this, there is no way of avoiding this issue without going the route of an exspensive closed die hit on the dimple area. another way of adding the dimple is to go about it in the same way rpk bulges are added...cut out an oval and tig or ebw in place a pre-formed dimple or rpk bulge. better yet, just buy a romanian sar and leap frog all that work! |
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Not a problem. If the buyer were to simply pull out his trusty AIM flyer, all would be explained in full color :) Why do some people replicate Ferrari's using Fiero chassis? Or build an old Corvette with a different engine? To have something otherwise unobtainable for various reasons. |
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Back in the day,it was not un common for some of the different East block Countries to supply each other parts they may be in short supply of at the time.Bulgaria supplied receivers to Poland,Russia supplied trunnions to Bulgaria and were re marked........where as I have not [yet] gone to these lengths myself,I do specify to my Smith not to remove any trunnion markings on rifles I'm having built and I use the original furniture on each AK.BTW,Troy at In Range is also set up to replicate proofs and selector markings.
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