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Posted: 4/27/2003 6:44:32 AM EDT
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Everything I have read on various gun boards indicates that the original combloc wood finish was/is a type of varnish. I am having an ongoing "discussion" with my brotherinlaw. He is an amatuer woodworker - and thinks he is an "EXPERT" on wood finishes! He adamantly insists that a varnish finish makes no sense and would not be cheap and/or adequate for a gunstock. I know very little about wood finishing, but he is getting to be a real Pain in the ASS about this! Could someone PLEASE give me some real facts about the original finish, or at least a couple of links? PS. I did a search - but no definitive info... |
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try this link www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=55616 that is the method that I used on this wood  Other "proof" can be found on Tantal's site, and if you go to www.ironwooddesgins.com (where that wood came from) they describe the European way, of the tinted varnish. |
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Ask your brother what is the cheapest finish for marine grade plywood that will always be outdoors? It is Varnish, especially in a third world country like any former combloc nation. A Russian stock is basically larch plywood finished with a colored varnish slopped on with a brush. Mike |
The latest wood is definatedly lacquer. This is evident in that fact that the finish, as well as color dosen't last long, and actually flakes off. After the flaking/chipping it is visible to see the non stained wood. The earlier finishes were a much more durable varnish/schallac. The other problem with lacquer, besides the not a durable aspect is the application method. Lacquer has to be sprayed out of a gun, Varnish is brushed on, resulting in the brush strokes we see noted on Tantal's page. |
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the early com-bloc finish is some kind of varnish/stain mixture. the romanian crapola finish that you see on the sar's and m69 training rifles is 'similar' (although much more crudely applied and no attempt is made to match the russian-bulgarian color) to the old style commie varnish/stain. even the crudely finnished maadi plywood approximates the old commie method, although not the color. |
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well I got the proof........the furniture is stained, so there isn't any stained mixed in with the varnish, or whatever they use....how do I know? because I just received a brand new SVD wood stock set from russia....and it doesn't have varnish, shellac, or anything else on it, it looks a little like a mahagony stain.... now I'm no expert, on the finish.....but I bet they would use whatever they have plenty off. shellac mostly comes from in the southeast asia, and India, but then russia ahs a long standing trade pact with india it wouldn't surprise me if it was shellac.....shellac is actually bug shit that dried on tree limbs, in flake form. http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/sfcret/SVD%20furniture%20and%20pouch.jpg |
| If you were to use a chemical stripper on one of these, the color would come off "in sheets" the wood underneath is a pecan color naturally. It is an old wood workers "trick" to use a mahogony or real dark "stain" to make a cheap piece of wood look like something nice. To get real stain out of the wood you have to use lye and bleach it out. |
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The properties of laquer, are that it provides a very high level of shine (ie black laquer furniture, also lot of oriental furniture), it dries quickly(depending on how "hot" you mix the finish), and it is easy to buff out. The main down sides are that it is not a very durable finish, chips easily, looks like crap with multiple coats. Clear laquer can be "tinted" just like any other finsih, the main difference is durablity, laquer is not durable. |
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Brick, I quote from Tantal: Now we encounter an early to mid 60's set of the more familiar orange-brown finished AKM furniture, also of the bottom sling swivel variety. The pistol grip has lightened only slightly and is of the same type and shape as pictured above. The bottom edge of the buttstock is now almost a straight line. These stocks are not stained prior to finishing, the varnish carries all the pigment. Final finish is a semi-gloss, usually, with a delicate texture. All Russian wood is cross-laminated, meaning alternating layers are rotated 90 degrees to make the grain change direction each time. This makes the wood stronger, and resists cracking or warping |
The last time I checked a SVD was NOT an AK. So why would Tantal need to update correct information about AKs? Since this is an AK website what does the finish of an SVD stock have to do with anything? I saw a Mosin one time too. Guess what? No varnish there either. Mike |
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Well if you look in the background of one of my pics you will see an SVD butt that came from a Russian rifle in Poland. It is most definately not stained. I can't say why your set is not finished in the "traditional finish". My guess would be it was an unfinished set that was finished off by someone for who intended to sell it, but thats just a guess. Tantal's word use of "varnish" is probly more of a general term for the finished commonly seen on stock sets. Will we ever know exactly what is used? Who knows. Best I can do is match it with what I have found looks best. Brick |
hello...SVDs, AKs, RPKs, they are made at the same place...now why on earth would they do one finish different then the other? |
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