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Posted: 12/8/2015 1:10:04 AM EDT
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I don't understand all the N-pap hate, mine has been flawless; 3500 rounds w/o a hick-up
no bolt peening, what's the problem? |
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Problem rifles always get talked about the most, even when reality 95%+ of AKs that come from a military factory are fine. That's just how things work. A handful have issues and suddenly people say they are all crap. Happens to every make and model of AK.
I never had an interest in the Yugos because the stock is uncomfortable. Seems like the majority of them are fine rifles though. |
| The only problem we have with ours is the cheek-slap. I'm not sure what freak-of-nature the NPAPs stock was designed for, but it certainly is not made for us Irishmen. That said, after some adjusting, the issue was solved. Also, we replaced the stock with the Magpul edition. All is well now! Love that damn gun. |
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Quoted: The only problem we have with ours is the cheek-slap. I'm not sure what freak-of-nature the NPAPs stock was designed for, but it certainly is not made for us Irishmen. That said, after some adjusting, the issue was solved. Also, we replaced the stock with the Magpul edition. All is well now! Love that damn gun. ETA: Replaced it with an RAS 47, I like that one. |
dryflash3|
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Was there even an explanation why it broke? Quoted:
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Rob Ski broke one...so theres that. Was there even an explanation why it broke? They ran it over with a truck and dropped it on concrete a few times. That bent the receiver. It was the only AK too bend they've tested. Could've been a lemon, who knows? link: Youtube - Npap test |
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Correct, he broke *one*. With a sample size of one, you either have a 100% success rate or a 100% failure rate. Quoted:
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Rob Ski broke one...so theres that. Correct, he broke *one*. With a sample size of one, you either have a 100% success rate or a 100% failure rate. I had an NPAP that was problematic but bc I didn't know much (really anything) about guns at the time I don't really take that as hard evidence bc i didn't have the ability to diagnose the source problem (which could have been minor... IDK). However, although the AKOU test is a sample of one and I'm not really all that interested in their testing methods (although they do an awesome job of keeping it consistent... big +1 to those guys for that), that Battlefield Las Vegas place did take all of their NPAPs "out of service" and had them destroyed (even ones the ones that were still in perfect working order) because so many were failing in a manner that made them a liability. I really hate to say this bc i know it gets ppl worked up but the WASRs he was using held up to the abuse while the NPAPS didn't. I own neither and would not go with either if i were buying an AK... just disseminating the info. He never condemned Yugos and said that it appeared that they may have not been properly heat treated, but there does seem to be somewhat of a trend. |
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We have probably shipped 500 plus N paps in the last 12 months , We have had only a handful of issues reported to us and most were rather minor so our customer success rate has been very positive . http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/npap%20(11%20of%2011).jpg Is this a new style of stock from Zastava? It looks almost like a standard AKM profile milling. It would probably solve most of the cheek slap complaints. |
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http://www.apexgunparts.com/yugoslavian-m70-n-pap-front-end-complete-ex.html
I can't imagine why anyone would destroy perfectly good receivers. The Yugos variants have had some turds. Things like the single stack bolt and 1st generation N-PAP receivers are turds. The O-PAP was decent. The current generation of N-PAP is supposedly decent. I will pass because I don't feel like sourcing an M-76 stock. All the local ones have the old style stock and I really can't justify buying one sight unseen. |
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Quoted:
They ran it over with a truck and dropped it on concrete a few times. That bent the receiver. It was the only AK too bend they've tested. Could've been a lemon, who knows? link: Youtube - Npap test Quoted:
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Rob Ski broke one...so theres that. Was there even an explanation why it broke? They ran it over with a truck and dropped it on concrete a few times. That bent the receiver. It was the only AK too bend they've tested. Could've been a lemon, who knows? link: Youtube - Npap test Thanks for the link. |
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I still believe it wouldn't have bent if a mag was inserted in the receiver. With no mag, this is the weakest spot in the receiver. Do the other AKOU torture tests leave the mag out when running over a rifle? the 223 PAP didn't have a mag in it but the magwell has the adapter to allow AR mags to be used https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJriYuzUcGE All their videos https://www.youtube.com/user/AkOperatorsUnion/videos The WASR they like, no mag during rollover test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfUOfDcLX0I I like my NPAP and WASR, they're all good. Like cars, if you look long enough, you'll find something you like and something you don't like with all of them I believe. |
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I had an NPAP that was problematic but bc I didn't know much (really anything) about guns at the time I don't really take that as hard evidence bc i didn't have the ability to diagnose the source problem (which could have been minor... IDK). However, although the AKOU test is a sample of one and I'm not really all that interested in their testing methods (although they do an awesome job of keeping it consistent... big +1 to those guys for that), that Battlefield Las Vegas place did take all of their NPAPs "out of service" and had them destroyed (even ones the ones that were still in perfect working order) because so many were failing in a manner that made them a liability. I really hate to say this bc i know it gets ppl worked up but the WASRs he was using held up to the abuse while the NPAPS didn't. I own neither and would not go with either if i were buying an AK... just disseminating the info. He never condemned Yugos and said that it appeared that they may have not been properly heat treated, but there does seem to be somewhat of a trend. Quoted:
Quoted:
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Rob Ski broke one...so theres that. Correct, he broke *one*. With a sample size of one, you either have a 100% success rate or a 100% failure rate. I had an NPAP that was problematic but bc I didn't know much (really anything) about guns at the time I don't really take that as hard evidence bc i didn't have the ability to diagnose the source problem (which could have been minor... IDK). However, although the AKOU test is a sample of one and I'm not really all that interested in their testing methods (although they do an awesome job of keeping it consistent... big +1 to those guys for that), that Battlefield Las Vegas place did take all of their NPAPs "out of service" and had them destroyed (even ones the ones that were still in perfect working order) because so many were failing in a manner that made them a liability. I really hate to say this bc i know it gets ppl worked up but the WASRs he was using held up to the abuse while the NPAPS didn't. I own neither and would not go with either if i were buying an AK... just disseminating the info. He never condemned Yugos and said that it appeared that they may have not been properly heat treated, but there does seem to be somewhat of a trend. And as someone with a lot of practical experience with a wide variety of firearms, he was careful to not ascribe the issues they experienced to NPAPs in general, noting that it could have been a batch issue. |
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And as someone with a lot of practical experience with a wide variety of firearms, he was careful to not ascribe the issues they experienced to NPAPs in general, noting that it could have been a batch issue. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Rob Ski broke one...so theres that. Correct, he broke *one*. With a sample size of one, you either have a 100% success rate or a 100% failure rate. I had an NPAP that was problematic but bc I didn't know much (really anything) about guns at the time I don't really take that as hard evidence bc i didn't have the ability to diagnose the source problem (which could have been minor... IDK). However, although the AKOU test is a sample of one and I'm not really all that interested in their testing methods (although they do an awesome job of keeping it consistent... big +1 to those guys for that), that Battlefield Las Vegas place did take all of their NPAPs "out of service" and had them destroyed (even ones the ones that were still in perfect working order) because so many were failing in a manner that made them a liability. I really hate to say this bc i know it gets ppl worked up but the WASRs he was using held up to the abuse while the NPAPS didn't. I own neither and would not go with either if i were buying an AK... just disseminating the info. He never condemned Yugos and said that it appeared that they may have not been properly heat treated, but there does seem to be somewhat of a trend. And as someone with a lot of practical experience with a wide variety of firearms, he was careful to not ascribe the issues they experienced to NPAPs in general, noting that it could have been a batch issue. It definitely could be. It is kinda concerning that they had receivers that weren't as strong as they should have been and then the guys on that youtube channel had the receiver bend like that but IDK. There are a lot of Yugos out there that people own and love so ??? I personally wouldn't buy one but if your budget is "the cheapest thing I can find", then f*** it... roll the dice. |
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I have the DF model and I really like it. Came with the standard safety but I swapped it out for one that allows it to be set to "fire" with the stock folded. It's got around 1500 rounds through it in the year I've owned it with no issues, but I'll be putting more through it this winter. Just been shooting my ARs more lately.
ETA: Strongly considering picking up a fixed stock NPAP to go with it, just to have a 7.62 to shoot when I don't want to shoot the UF. |
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I personally wouldn't buy one but if your budget is "the cheapest thing I can find", then f*** it... roll the dice. Like all my rifles, I bought my NPAP because it's a quality rifle, not because it was cheap. Considering all the gnashing of teeth on Internet forums, I've still seen very few posts showing legitimate quality issues with NPAPs. I think your odds of getting a well-made rifle are quite a bit better than just a roll of the dice. |
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I don't understand all the N-pap hate, mine has been flawless; 3500 rounds w/o a hick-up no bolt peening, what's the problem? They normally fail at 3600 rounds. 
Seriously, it's hard to separate fact from fiction regarding N-pap problems. Robs test of one rifle has seemed to take the N-pap from hero to zero overnight. With the isolated reports of FCG holes egging maybe there is something to it though. Problem is no extensive tests have been done to determine whether the "problem" is isolated to a batch or the whole line. End result: faith diminished. Until someone performs several durability tests where the N-pap passes with flying colors, the legacy will likely follow for quite awhile. |
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They normally fail at 3600 rounds.
Seriously, it's hard to separate fact from fiction regarding N-pap problems. Robs test of one rifle has seemed to take the N-pap from hero to zero overnight. With the isolated reports of FCG holes egging maybe there is something to it though. Problem is no extensive tests have been done to determine whether the "problem" is isolated to a batch or the whole line. End result: faith diminished. Until someone performs several durability tests where the N-pap passes with flying colors, the legacy will likely follow for quite awhile. Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand all the N-pap hate, mine has been flawless; 3500 rounds w/o a hick-up no bolt peening, what's the problem? They normally fail at 3600 rounds.
Seriously, it's hard to separate fact from fiction regarding N-pap problems. Robs test of one rifle has seemed to take the N-pap from hero to zero overnight. With the isolated reports of FCG holes egging maybe there is something to it though. Problem is no extensive tests have been done to determine whether the "problem" is isolated to a batch or the whole line. End result: faith diminished. Until someone performs several durability tests where the N-pap passes with flying colors, the legacy will likely follow for quite awhile. It really doesn't take much to kill and rifles reputation. The early NPAPs were a mess of issues caused by the single stack bolt. Then that was sorted out.. then a few years later some start showing signs of heat treating problems. Either the egging FCG holes or the bolt carrier tail peening much much worse than any other AK I've seen. When you have a rifle with a history of issues like this, people are going to really start to question the quality of the rifle. But the guys who ended up with a good one will take offense and act like everyone else is wrong because their one rifle is good to go. And you're definitely right.. until someone does enough testing to really nail down the issues to a year or serial number range.. it will take a long time for the NPAP reputation to recover. Just look how long it took for the old WASR reputation of being a POS with canted parts to finally go away..lol |
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I don't like the lack of a chrome lined bore and the fact that the furniture is proprietary. If it was AKM spec I could get past the unlined bore. Longer HGs let you get your hand out a little closer to the muzzle, and if you have big hands they keep you from bumping the hot HG retainer after a few mag dumps
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I laughed about this quote:
Someone said: "That same car, driving over an arsenal, wasr, ( insert whatever AKM manufacturer you want ) in the EXACT FASHION AND SPOT will produce the exact result on other brands. To which Rob replied: "No it will not. We have done this on numerous other rifles and even on NODAK receivers - you can do donuts on NODAK receiver and it will not get deformed. it takes it like a champ." |
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