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Posted: 7/20/2011 9:46:18 AM EDT
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After hearing about this from a guy on another board, I'm wondering how common it really is:
http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Infantry-Weapons/AK-74-and-AK-74M-5-45-mm-assault-rifles-Russian-Federation.html There is a slight modification to the AKM bolt and carrier design: the AK-74 bolt has a small flat catch, and the carrier has a nib, which interacts to prevent the bolt from falling free of the carrier during disassembly of the weapon. The AKM extractor is prone to breakage, so, for the AK-74, it was substantially enlarged and strengthened. Anyone have a broken extractor on their 7.62x39 AK? What was the round count? (If you know). What's your current round count without changing the extractor? Do you guys buy spare extractors or complete bolts JIC of a failure? I hadn't planned on it, but now I may....if it's an issue. Sorry...new to AKs and want to be set up for SHTF with spares if necessary. Also, anyone know of an "upgraded" AK extractor that is less "prone to breakage"? Thanks, Sean |
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One other question....I'm assuming if you swap bolts in an AK, you need a headspace guage to make sure it's the correct spacing.....is this correct and would someone be kind enough to link me to the gauge or gauge set I might need? I don't know if I need a go no-go and a field gauge or just one or all 3.
TIA, Sean |
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I've never heard anything about broken AK-47 extractors.
I can assure you that if the AK had a problem with the extractor, it would have been corrected LONG ago because the Soviets were not about to allow a defective part on their AK rifles. I'm sure there have been broken AK extractors, but this would have been a rare occurrence. There are no "upgraded" AK extractors, because none is needed. AK-47 series rifles routinely go for MANY thousands of rounds with the same extractor in place. It's not considered to be a part that needs replacement. If it makes you feel better, by all means buy a spare extractor and spring, but chances you'll ever need it are slim. You can buy a set of head space gages from Brownell's. I'm not sure if AK builders use all three or only two. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=head+space+gauges/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=head_space_gauges |
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I can assure you that if the AK had a problem with the extractor, it would have been corrected LONG ago because the Soviets were not about to allow a defective part on their AK rifles./t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=head_space_gauges[/url] Well, technically they did put a beefier one on the AK74 and AK100 series rifle. I'm sure they had a reason for doing that. |
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I can assure you that if the AK had a problem with the extractor, it would have been corrected LONG ago because the Soviets were not about to allow a defective part on their AK rifles./t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=head_space_gauges[/url] Well, technically they did put a beefier one on the AK74 and AK100 series rifle. I'm sure they had a reason for doing that. Could it not simply be that the case head on the 7.62X39 cartridge doesn't allow nearly as much "meat" for a larger extractor as 5.45? Sean |
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I've never heard anything about broken AK-47 extractors. I can assure you that if the AK had a problem with the extractor, it would have been corrected LONG ago because the Soviets were not about to allow a defective part on their AK rifles. I'm sure there have been broken AK extractors, but this would have been a rare occurrence. There are no "upgraded" AK extractors, because none is needed. AK-47 series rifles routinely go for MANY thousands of rounds with the same extractor in place. It's not considered to be a part that needs replacement. If it makes you feel better, by all means buy a spare extractor and spring, but chances you'll ever need it are slim. You can buy a set of head space gages from Brownell's. I'm not sure if AK builders use all three or only two. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=head+space+gauges/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=head_space_gauges Thanks for the link.... I'm like you....leaning towards this not being a real concern as I've never heard of broken extractors either. Thanks for the info. Any of you have some solid round counts through your AKs to give a real world example of the extractor's reliability/durability? TIA, Sean |
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One other question....I'm assuming if you swap bolts in an AK, you need a headspace guage to make sure it's the correct spacing.....is this correct and would someone be kind enough to link me to the gauge or gauge set I might need? I don't know if I need a go no-go and a field gauge or just one or all 3. TIA, Sean AK bolts should not be considered to be interchangable. Headspace should be verified. Gauges are cheap. Body parts are priceless. If I were attempting to swap a bolt I would test with the Go and No Go gauges, just as I did when building a rifle. IMO a spare bolt is an unnecessary expense, since AK bolts do not have a reputation for breaking. If it would make you feel better, buy an extractor, spring and a firing pin. Be sure to oil them throughly, vacuum pack them and label them clearly. If you don't label them, your grandchildren might throw them out, not knowing what they are. |
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One other question....I'm assuming if you swap bolts in an AK, you need a headspace guage to make sure it's the correct spacing.....is this correct and would someone be kind enough to link me to the gauge or gauge set I might need? I don't know if I need a go no-go and a field gauge or just one or all 3. TIA, Sean AK bolts should not be considered to be interchangable. Headspace should be verified. Gauges are cheap. Body parts are priceless. If I were attempting to swap a bolt I would test with the Go and No Go gauges, just as I did when building a rifle. IMO a spare bolt is an unnecessary expense, since AK bolts do not have a reputation for breaking. If it would make you feel better, buy an extractor, spring and a firing pin. Be sure to oil them throughly, vacuum pack them and label them clearly. If you don't label them, your grandchildren might throw them out, not knowing what they are. LOL, love the grandchildren quote. :) Seriously....I've never thought the AK bolt was a weak point in the slightest until this guy mentioned it and then I searched the net and only found really one reference to it. At this point, due to the headspace issue, I'm just going to buy some spare extractors and springs....stuff I should probably have on hand anyway. Thanks for the info. BTW, how many rounds do you have through your AK(s)? Thanks, Sean |
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It's a question that I've pondered myself.
Mark Graham (the "gunplumber") once posted on a forum that in the thousands of AKs that have passed through his hands over the years, he has seen exactly one broken AK extractor. Second data point: Until recently, spare Saiga 7.62 x 39 bolts and extractors were unobtainable. Yet, thousands of Saiga rifles have been in use for years and I've never read a report of someone's Saiga rifle being out of commission due to a broken bolt or extractor. |
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BTW, how many rounds do you have through your AK(s)? A Chinese made rifle I bought in the mid '80s has 20K plus through it. A Romanian made rifle I bought right after the AWB ended has 5K+ through it. A rifle I built in '05 from a Romanian kit has 4.5K through it. Others have less, down to the last one I built which doesn't yet have 500 through it. |
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So you're worried because "somebody said" that AKM extractors are prone to breakage?
Did you worry because "someone said" AK's were inaccurate? Did you worry because "someone said" that steel cased ammo is total junk? Did you worry because "someone said" AK's are the the weapons of our enemies? Did you worry because you (probably, like the rest of us) couldn't spell what the letters "A" and "K" stand for without looking it up? With an AK, you have a weapon that has been battle proven more than any other rifle (I'm stating that as my guess, not as a known fact). The words "AK" and "unreliable" do not go in the same sentence together. |
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It all sounds like a load of BS to me. Somebody is guessing at a minute design change that occured when the cartridge type was changed. It makes more sense to attribute it to the 5.45 design rather than a weakness in 7.62 extractors. And what is this "catch" he is referring to that retains the bolt? Is he talking about the cam lug?
If you want spares, about the only things you'll be able to replace without very specific tools are the springs, FCG, and firing pin. I'd bet on the furniture getting broken or the rifle being disabled by damage than anything else taking it out. |
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So you're worried because "somebody said" that AKM extractors are prone to breakage? Did you worry because "someone said" AK's were inaccurate? Did you worry because "someone said" that steel cased ammo is total junk? Did you worry because "someone said" AK's are the the weapons of our enemies? Did you worry because you (probably, like the rest of us) couldn't spell what the letters "A" and "K" stand for without looking it up? With an AK, you have a weapon that has been battle proven more than any other rifle (I'm stating that as my guess, not as a known fact). The words "AK" and "unreliable" do not go in the same sentence together. No need to be a jerk about it guy. I'm new to the AK platform and have questioned what spares I should have on hand for the 2 that I now own. To answer your questions....yes, I was "concerned" about what according to Jane's is a "breakage prone" component. I am very relieved and happy to see this "story" looks to be a fabrication. No, I wasn't worried about the accuracy. After buying my first one, accuracy is pretty darn good IMO. Nope, not worried about steel cased ammo since that's about all I run now and have been running it for a few years. I've found Brown Bear in .223 to be decently accurate and the 7.62x39 in various brands I've tried seems to be decent as well. Nope, didn't care if the AK was ever considered to be the "weapons of our enemies". They work 100% of the time in my experience and that's more important than whether or not someone approves of my choice in guns. No, I know who designed the AK, so I didn't have to look it up....but thanks for attempting to belittle a fellow gun enthusiast. Sean |
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It all sounds like a load of BS to me. Somebody is guessing at a minute design change that occured when the cartridge type was changed. It makes more sense to attribute it to the 5.45 design rather than a weakness in 7.62 extractors. And what is this "catch" he is referring to that retains the bolt? Is he talking about the cam lug? If you want spares, about the only things you'll be able to replace without very specific tools are the springs, FCG, and firing pin. I'd bet on the furniture getting broken or the rifle being disabled by damage than anything else taking it out. Yep....plan to buy a couple of spring kits and some extractors, JIC. Better to be prepared, even if it's unlikely to break. I have spares for all my other rifles in terms of bolts and spring kits.....with the AK's legendary reliability, I honestly just bought a second one and didn't think too hard about spring kits and small parts.....but I'll rectify that shortly. Thanks for the help.....much appreciated. Sean |
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BTW, how many rounds do you have through your AK(s)? A Chinese made rifle I bought in the mid '80s has 20K plus through it. A Romanian made rifle I bought right after the AWB ended has 5K+ through it. A rifle I built in '05 from a Romanian kit has 4.5K through it. Others have less, down to the last one I built which doesn't yet have 500 through it. Thanks for the numbers.....I'm inclined to think as most posters here do....this story sounds like it's BS. I am not the type of person to just call BS without investigating it first though....which is why I asked here and on another AK forum. Rest assured I will correct the guy that told me this story in the first place....but I'll try to do it respectfully. Thanks again, Sean |
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I didn't mean to belittle you, I was attempting sarcasm. But it came off all wrong, so I definitely apologize.
I was attempting to sarcastically bounce off all the snide comments that non-AK owners (usually AR owners) say about AK's. But I was wrong to say "Did YOU..." That sounds very bad now that I reread my post. I should have said "Did WE...", ala John Belushis speech when they all got expelled in Animal House and he was encouraging others to not worry about it. BTW, I cannot spell what words the letters "A" and "K" represent myself. I know what they are, and can (almost!) speak them in English, but I couldn't sit here and TYPE (spell) them without looking up the correct spellings. Something like "Automat Kalasnikov" I think. So feel free to belittle me because I can't spell it exactly - I owe you one! 
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| This question comes up from time to time...all I can say is that I know of a full auto rental gun at a local gunrange...A Polytec stamped 56...that went over 30,000 logged rounds before the extractor started to wear out. Not break, but show some real wear, so at that time the extractor and a spring set was installed and the rifle went another 20,000 rounds before it was sold;as is, and it was working fine. It was very well lubed, cleaned and maintained by the crew there and ran with near 100% reliability the whole time. The crome lined bore "looked" like new, but of course it was worn some. You can believe it not. Incedently their M-16's were pretty much equally reliable, but with a bbl change at 20,000 due to eroded chamber throat. |
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