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Posted: 5/12/2011 5:41:30 PM EDT
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are Arsenal rifles basically just converted Saiga rifles?
i heard that some where and i am just curious. or does Arsenal build them from the ground up like they are? |
Most people seem to believe that the Saiga sporters and the SGL Legions are basically the same, that a Legion isn't much different than the sporter - especially when they are bashing Arsenal 
People I know who have seen Izhmash and the Legion shop have said that Legion guns are as milspec as they come and could have been selected for military contracts but ended up in the custom orders instead. Legion guns are built on the military production line using military parts. Sporters are built out of their own production line, they aren't rejects but they apparently don't attempt to make sure they will pass military inspection like the Legion parts. Someone else said they are all the same parts but Legion's are hand picked for quality, in effect you get a better built rifle which puts them above the sporters and apparently on par with the military guns. (and from what I'm told at Izhmash it's only considered milspec when it's passed military inspection and delivered to the military, even if it's built for a military contract from the get go) I don't know if either is true, I haven't been to Izhmash to see for myself. I tend to believe the Legion guns are higher quality and not glorified sporters, but there are a few unanswered questions that make me wonder what the real deal is. (One being why does the SGL31 receiver have the cutout for the sporter trigger if it was never a sporter, you'd think it wouldn't have that). I trust the people in question but there are still variables I'd like to know for sure. Z |
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Quoted: Most people seem to believe that the Saiga sporters and the SGL Legions are basically the same, that a Legion isn't much different than the sporter - especially when they are bashing Arsenal People I know who have seen Izhmash and the Legion shop have said that Legion guns are as milspec as they come and could have been selected for military contracts but ended up in the custom orders instead. Legion guns are built on the military production line using military parts. Sporters are built out of their own production line, they aren't rejects but they apparently don't attempt to make sure they will pass military inspection like the Legion parts. Someone else said they are all the same parts but Legion's are hand picked for quality, in effect you get a better built rifle which puts them above the sporters and apparently on par with the military guns. (and from what I'm told at Izhmash it's only considered milspec when it's passed military inspection and delivered to the military, even if it's built for a military contract from the get go) I don't know if either is true, I haven't been to Izhmash to see for myself. I tend to believe the Legion guns are higher quality and not glorified sporters, but there are a few unanswered questions that make me wonder what the real deal is. (One being why does the SGL31 receiver have the cutout for the sporter trigger if it was never a sporter, you'd think it wouldn't have that). I trust the people in question but there are still variables I'd like to know for sure. Z Ok I learned something new.   |
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Actually, Arsenal USA was the company in Houston TX, also known as Global Trades. When they closed, Hector from Elk River took over for a while. Arsenal Inc is the sister company of Arsenal of Bulgaria. I'm sure many people confused the 2 companies over the years. GARY N4KVE
And remember, Arsenal USA is the sister company of Arsenal of Bulgaria. Z |
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Actually, Arsenal USA was the company in Houston TX, also known as Global Trades. When they closed, Hector from Elk River took over for a while. Arsenal Inc is the sister company of Arsenal of Bulgaria. I'm sure many people confused the 2 companies over the years. GARY N4KVE
And remember, Arsenal USA is the sister company of Arsenal of Bulgaria. Z Wasnt that armory usa?? |
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Actually, Arsenal USA was the company in Houston TX, also known as Global Trades. When they closed, Hector from Elk River took over for a while. Arsenal Inc is the sister company of Arsenal of Bulgaria. I'm sure many people confused the 2 companies over the years. GARY N4KVE
And remember, Arsenal USA is the sister company of Arsenal of Bulgaria. Z Wasnt that armory usa?? All the same company. Arsenal USA, Global Trades, & Armory USA. Jimmy Streetman was one of the bigshots there. I have one of their AK's, & the box says Arsenal USA. They were actually making guns here before Arsenal Inc came to the States. They had the deal with Arsenal of Bulgaria, but their contact there was killed in a car accident, & that's when Arsenal of Bulgaria decided to set up shop here. K-Var was here, but as a parts importer. Funny how things work out. GARY N4KVE |
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Quoted:
Actually, Arsenal USA was the company in Houston TX, also known as Global Trades. When they closed, Hector from Elk River took over for a while. Arsenal Inc is the sister company of Arsenal of Bulgaria. I'm sure many people confused the 2 companies over the years. GARY N4KVE My bad on the confusion, I meant to say Arsenal Inc. I know Hector Bennet and his history, but since they are gone it slipped my mind. Thanks for the correction Z |
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so, if i buy one of these for $350 + shipping / transfer fees, Saiga 5.45
put a front sight post that has the threads for an AK74 muzzle break, convert it to a pistol grip stock, maybe dress it up with a laminated wood furniture stock set, Tapco G2 trigger.... Profit ? my friend says these are imported in a configuration where they dont accept AK mags and you need to convert it to take them ( $7.00 part he says ) is that true? i figure with the conversions i listed above, i should be able to dress it up like a SGL-31 series without going over the SGL31 price mark right? and still have the chrome lined hammer forged barrel, nice russian receiver stampings etc. opinions? |
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Anyone questioning any of this should read the article on the SGL-21 in the latest edition of "The Complete Book of the AK-47".
It clearly details how the rifles are made in Russia, shipped here and converted from "sporting" rifles. That no-good cunt Feinstein is waging a personal attack on this particular method of getting these rifles into the country right now. Saying basically that we are "skirting" the "plain and clear" language in our foreign firearms import laws. Get one while they are available. They aren't going to be for long. |
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Anyone questioning any of this should read the article on the SGL-21 in the latest edition of "The Complete Book of the AK-47". It clearly details how the rifles are made in Russia, shipped here and converted from "sporting" rifles. That no-good cunt Feinstein is waging a personal attack on this particular method of getting these rifles into the country right now. Saying basically that we are "skirting" the "plain and clear" language in our foreign firearms import laws. Get one while they are available. They aren't going to be for long. I love my two SGL-21s they have been a dream to own and shoot. 
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Quoted: Anyone questioning any of this should read the article on the SGL-21 in the latest edition of "The Complete Book of the AK-47". It clearly details how the rifles are made in Russia, shipped here and converted from "sporting" rifles. That no-good cunt Feinstein is waging a personal attack on this particular method of getting these rifles into the country right now. Saying basically that we are "skirting" the "plain and clear" language in our foreign firearms import laws. Get one while they are available. They aren't going to be for long. While I wish that stupid cunt would be found lifeless in a dumpster, there is nothing she can do about the importation of Saiga rifles. They clearly meet US importation laws for sporting firearms. What is done to them once they are here, as long as they meet 922(r) compliance, is equally lawful. |
So you guys are saying the Legions also have the extra receiver holes welded shut during their transformation from Saiga sporter configuration to regular AK?  And the slot under the receiver for the BHO is also welded shut before all the welds are ground down perfectly and the rifle is refinished? I call BS.
If anything, I would say it is more possible for the Legions to be pulled off a regular assembly line right after the receiver is bent and transferred to the Saiga Sporter line for the extra drilling and machining. |
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my friend says these are imported in a configuration where they dont accept AK mags and you need to convert it to take them ( $7.00 part he says ) is that true? Last time I looked, the rifle were imported without a bullet guide so that it would not function with a standard ("high capactiy") AK magazine. This is done so the rifle meets the "sporting use" requirement and can be imported. When the rifle is converted the bullet guide is added. |
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Quoted: It is possible that Arsenal Inc. tells the Russian factory not to drill the extra holes, & don't put any FCG in the gun since they're going to throw them out anyways. When you order 500-1000 guns, you can special order them to your spec's. GARY N4KVE I can't remember where I read it but I have heard this is how they do it. |
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Quoted: Quoted: What is done to them once they are here, as long as they meet 922(r) compliance, is equally lawful. As long as the regulation implementing 18 USC 922(r) doesn't change that is correct. If the regulation was changed ... The House is pro-gun, look at the co-sponsors of the ATF reform bill. Also, remember McCarthy bitching on national TV about her "high capacity clip ban" bill not only getting zero traction, she was actually getting push back. Then one Senator said on Fox News there was zero chance of anything like that passing the Senate at this time. So, Cuntzilla will not get 922(r) amended to stop Saiga importation. |
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What is done to them once they are here, as long as they meet 922(r) compliance, is equally lawful. As long as the regulation implementing 18 USC 922(r) doesn't change that is correct. If the regulation was changed ... The House is pro-gun, look at the co-sponsors of the ATF reform bill. Also, remember McCarthy bitching on national TV about her "high capacity clip ban" bill not only getting zero traction, she was actually getting push back. Then one Senator said on Fox News there was zero chance of anything like that passing the Senate at this time. So, Cuntzilla will not get 922(r) amended to stop Saiga importation. You misunderstand. The law regarding importation isn't what I'm posting about. The statute [18 USC 922(r)] prohibits assembling a rifle which cannot be imported using foreign parts. The regulation allows the use of up to ten specified imported parts as well as any non-specified imported parts. If the regulation was changed (or just eliminated) it would be illegal to assemble a non-importable rifle using foreign parts. Result: no more non-importable AKs, unless they're made with all US parts. The regulation can be changed by the administration without Congressional approval so the Republican majority in the house can't prevent a change. |
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Quoted: the sgl series are just converted saiga's Yes, nice one's too by Legion. I remember how I used to hate the fact I couldn't afford one but then suddenly I could - and my hate turned to love. I'm very pleased with my SGL31, shoots great, looks great, holds its resale well... Being a converted Saiga isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a Russian receiver rather than non-Russian - and for those who like their guns built once and not from some parts they are a great product. I paid $1000 for mine - a week later they dropped a couple hundred. Then more people could afford them. |
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Yeah, they are "just converted saigas."
But buy a Saiga, then pay an AK smith to convert it to AK74M configuration (welding up all extra holes and such, nothing half ass with rivets) and let me know if you save any real money. (you won't) Saiga conversions are only a great deal if you do it yourself, or only do it halfway like just putting it in pistol grip config and leaving the rest alone. I just skip the minimal cost savings and long wait to have someone convert it and buy an Arsenal to begin with. Holds resale value better as well. |
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I understand Arsenal is now making a special rifle to be sold in California. It has a special locking device to keep the Mag. on rifle and a key is used to remove the Mag. I was told this is to comply with their stupid firearm laws.
Also there is so much demand for the Arsenal AKs in California, it has slowed the normal production of the standard Arsenal AKs. |
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