AK Sponsor
Posted: 2/6/2010 7:40:30 AM EDT
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I am looking for a licensed gunsmith who carries liability insurance to do some a couple AK builds for me. I provide the kit (Romanian G), US parts (Tapco), and 100% US receiver (Global Trades). The smith will provide proper assembly, rivets and all other incidental parts, basic parkerized refinishing (no gunkote/paint... yes, this really what I want) and return shipping. I realize I can build it myself for cheaper (excluding the upfront cost of tools), but I'd like the option of reselling these rifles if necessary and having a professional (or at least someone legally licensed to do so) assemble them will help them retain their resale value plus I do not want to be liable if something were to go wrong with the rifle.
Turnaround time is not nearly as much as of an issue for me as overall price is. In fact, price is THE most important factor to me here, so do keep that in mind. Just 4 years ago I had a gunsmith in Atlanta build a stamped AK for me for only $200 for assembly, basic park refinish, and return shipping. Unfortunately, his services are no longer available. That was when the economy was much better, certainly there are some smiths out there hurting for work who would consider doing a basic assembly job for the lowest possible price that still offers them some kind of profit. Once again, I don't need a fancy museum piece, I just need someone to build reliable AKs from my kits, US parts and receivers that I can legally sell with no liability on my part for the lowest possible price. Let me know if you are aware of any smiths who might be interested in a couple jobs like this, or if you yourself are a licensed and insured gunsmith and are interested, please quote me via email a single total price including all assembly and refinish services, return shipping (78758), and applicable sales tax if you're in Texas. |
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Uh, which would you rather buy, an AK built buy a professional gunsmith or one built by some random Jim Bob Bubba in his garage who bought a how-to video off the internet? Also, if the thing blows up in your face after you've bought it, who are you going after? Thats right, the guy that assembled it. If its assembled by someone who actually has liability insurance, you are likely to get something out of it. If youre suing Jim Bob Bubba, you arent likely to get squat.
So yeah, being built by a real gunsmith does make a definite difference in terms of value, re/sale price. My intention is to eventually sell these rifles, not pile them on top of my collection. |
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Hmm, their prices seem a little high, especially charging for refinishing in addition to build... plus theyre in Texas, which means I'd have to pay sales tax in addition to shipping, so it doesnt seem likely. Thanks, though. |
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I am looking for a licensed gunsmith who carries liability insurance to do some a couple AK builds for me. Wow.  . I'm not sure which emoticon to use for this.
Allied Armament just did this not long ago for a bunch of Polish kits that were owned by a third party, and then sold thru another third party (Atlantic Firearms). So I wonder in that situation, if one of those Polish rifles blew up and took someones face off, who would be liable? Lessee there are at least five parties that would need to be in the mix for a lawsuit: 1) The guy from the Tacoma area who owned the kits 2) Allied Armament, who assembled the kits 3) Nodak Spud, who built the receiver 4) Atlantic Firearms, who sold the rifle 5) The original manufacturer, the ŁUCZNIK/RADOM factory in Poland So down that chain I believe that Nodak and Radom are both LLC's. I don't know about AA (who apparenty is still in business despite appearance and the no-longer existing website). That would matter. Anyway, this is a funny question to ask - even sounds like some sort of setup for an insurance scam if you asked me. I'm not an attorney, but I am a student of life, and as such I can say that you can be sued by anyone for anything so don't for a second think you're going to absolve yourself of any liability by shifting blame to a builder. I would seriously doubt that anyone who you could afford would be carrying liability insurance. Perhaps the bigger builders who charge a premium would carry that sort of additional overhead. I doubt that most would. -Thirtycal |
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Uh, which would you rather buy, an AK built buy a professional gunsmith or one built by some random Jim Bob Bubba in his garage who bought a how-to video off the internet? Also, if the thing blows up in your face after you've bought it, who are you going after? Thats right, the guy that assembled it. If its assembled by someone who actually has liability insurance, you are likely to get something out of it. If youre suing Jim Bob Bubba, you arent likely to get squat. So yeah, being built by a real gunsmith does make a definite difference in terms of value, re/sale price. My intention is to eventually sell these rifles, not pile them on top of my collection. After you pay for the kits and all the parts, plus pay someone to build them just to sell them for a profit I think you would end up on the losing end considering you can pick up AK that are built already for $300 and up |
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Hmm, their prices seem a little high, especially charging for refinishing in addition to build... plus theyre in Texas, which means I'd have to pay sales tax in addition to shipping, so it doesnt seem likely. Thanks, though. Actually, Elk River's prices are low. Most builders want at least $300 and only put you in their line after they receive your kit, compliance parts, receiver, and your check has cleared the bank... then be prepared to wait at least 3 months for your build to get started. You want a quality build by a licensed gunsmith who has insurance and does not work out of a "garage" but you are not willing to pay the going rates. What you paid 4 or 5 years ago is immaterial. There were plenty of AK smiths who completed kits back then. More than a couple of them were not FFL holders and they were not insured. Sure, the build was inexpensive. But this and many other forums were full of posts about long wait times and sloppy builds. Quite a few people lost their kits, their time, and their money looking to get a cheap build done. Craftsmen who take pride in their work tend to charge more than people who slap together parts and call it good enough. Businessmen tend to charge more than amateurs who put together parts as a hobby. You don't want a garage build, yet you seem to be unaware that shop space has to be paid for. And a good liability policy for a gunsmith is not a freebie. Plus the gunsmith has to eat at least a couple of times a day and probably enjoys sleeping indoors... so he needs to make a profit over costs and time. How long do you want your 'smith to be liable for the gun? Even the big guys like Century won't stand behind their wares for more than a year after it leaves their store. Good luck in your quest. |
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What's all the big concern with "liability insurance"?
Wanting top quality and cheap price don't usually mesh. If you want a cheap job then find Bubba, or otherwise be prepared to pony up the cash to someone who knows WTF he is doing and will build you something you can be proud of. I had a G kit built by Mario at Piece of History Firearms, and it cots me $500 (he furnished a quality receiver in that price) but the fit and finish are great, and it looks factory. I went all out with Moly over Park finish, wood all completely redone, selector markings engraved, mags refinished, etc. It is something I am very proud of and glad I spent the cash. With the G kit I have about $630 in it, but you would have to spend that or much more to get that kind of quality. With WASR 's selling at $500 - $600 at most gun shops I don't feel bad at all. 
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You're about 3 years too late if you think you are going to get a rifle built by most builders for less than $300.00. You are also too late for most build parties by a couple of years.
Liability insurance? Most of the builders I have met (like Mario) actually do this on the side and have other jobs or work out of small shops. You would probably come out ahead just selling the kits off if you bought them when they were less than $100.00. You could double your money. If you bought them at the high price recently than good luck coming out ahead. People can buy complete rifles now for $450.00. |
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Every builder has the right to decide what their labor is worth.
of the top ten questions I am asked about my rifle builds, 9 of them are "which one is cheapest?" It is refreshing to find the rare 10% who even know what questions to ask - who hold the receives up[ to the light looking for rivet-gap. I enjoy the scrutiny, because it tells me the customer is educated. |
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I had just been looking at one of mine that was put away. I was looking at the beautiful hot blueing he did as well as the assembly.
John Hittel [email protected] He does a nice job with good communcation and seems to be genuinely concerned about the customer. |
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Dang..... I run a small custom upholstery shop and I gotta tell you, you are the customer I would avoid working for. Reading your post set off many warning lamps in me.
When you start out with (Paraphrasing here) I'm cheap and want you to work cheap and I want my ass covered and I want high quality.... You are setting yourself up for fail. If you walked into my shop with a pitch like that wanting something built, I would have alot of fun getting rid of you. You know, like I'd lose the ability to speak & understand English. Or if I didn't feel like entertaining myself I'd simply tell you that you are in voilation of a "AFZ" (Asshole Free zone) and I would tell you to leave. Your whole attitude towards the work stinks. Anyone who has spent years attaining the skills to work at that level would be insulted by your arrogance and ignorance. I am also a welder & machinist but mostly do upholstery due to my disabilities. But I still dabble in metal working and have built myself a dozen AKs for my collection. Just look at the Ironwood Designs website. Five of the AK's in his pics on the home page banner and AK products pages are my builds. I know the work that goes into that sort of build. If I were a pro I'd be charging more like $400 as it is two to three days of work to build and finish one like that. If I wanted to earn $100 a day and pay taxes on it too I'd get a job crewing at a McDonalds. I'd make the same the same money and wouldn't have to put up with you. 
Why not tool up and do your own builds? Get some first hand experience and take care of that ignorance level. Doing it yourself will cure it quick! |
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Dang..... I run a small custom upholstery shop and I gotta tell you, you are the customer I would avoid working for. Reading your post set off many warning lamps in me. When you start out with (Paraphrasing here) I'm cheap and want you to work cheap and I want my ass covered and I want high quality.... You are setting yourself up for fail. If you walked into my shop with a pitch like that wanting something built, I would have alot of fun getting rid of you. You know, like I'd lose the ability to speak & understand English. Or if I didn't feel like entertaining myself I'd simply tell you that you are in voilation of a "AFZ" (Asshole Free zone) and I would tell you to leave. Your whole attitude towards the work stinks. Anyone who has spent years attaining the skills to work at that level would be insulted by your arrogance and ignorance. I am also a welder & machinist but mostly do upholstery due to my disabilities. But I still dabble in metal working and have built myself a dozen AKs for my collection. Just look at the Ironwood Designs website. Five of the AK's in his pics on the home page banner and AK products pages are my builds. I know the work that goes into that sort of build. If I were a pro I'd be charging more like $400 as it is two to three days of work to build and finish one like that. If I wanted to earn $100 a day and pay taxes on it too I'd get a job crewing at a McDonalds. I'd make the same the same money and wouldn't have to put up with you.
Why not tool up and do your own builds? Get some first hand experience and take care of that ignorance level. Doing it yourself will cure it quick! While I agree entirely with your post, I think this guy's full of it. He's been posting the same inquiry on boards since at least February 2006: Feb. 3, 2006 post by this user |
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While I agree entirely with your post, I think this guy's full of it. He's been posting the same inquiry on boards since at least February 2006: Feb. 3, 2006 post by this user 
good catch. What's the story there OP? |
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While I agree entirely with your post, I think this guy's full of it. He's been posting the same inquiry on boards since at least February 2006: Feb. 3, 2006 post by this user
good catch. What's the story there OP? Maybe he has been waiting 4 years for a gun smith to quote him a dirt cheap price for the highest quality work, all while absolving him of all the liability for when the gun blows up and adding $300+ dollars to not only the cost of putting it together, but the resale value too. |
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hey my factory sa-85 blew up in my face the other day (anyone have the phone # for hungry) No need for a phone number, you can order directly off their website. Hungry Howies |
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hey my factory sa-85 blew up in my face the other day (anyone have the phone # for hungry) No need for a phone number, you can order directly off their website. Hungry Howies haha i actually love that pizza to bad their are none around the chicago area. |
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As I said in the FALFiles.com post, I'm not a scammer and all I'm looking to do is get my rifles built for the absolute lowest price possible while still getting a product thats basically reliable. I also want the option of selling them if I decide to do so. If I build the rifles myself, that isn't an option. *I* would be liable if something went wrong and gambling my life savings on a damn rifle isnt worth it. Then again, spending $500 on labor alone for building a rifle that cannot be sold for much more than that is pretty damn stupid if you ask me.
If all I wanted to do was make a profit, I would sell the kits, receivers, and US parts. I'm just wanting to keep from spending more money than I have to to get what I want... why would I do otherwise? Why would I willingly let myself be overcharged for a service when I KNOW I don't have to. Its likely I'll be using this fellow to do my builds since he seems to have a much more reasonable price for his labor: http://hornscustomrifles.com/Gunsmithing.php |
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