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Posted: 7/13/2009 5:17:07 AM EDT
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I was just wondering about something...
What exactly defines a 922 compliant object as "US-made"? Here is my thought process...we are all aware of the excellent products from Ironwood...correct? Matt uses, among other things, imported wood and makes a finished product here in the US and labels it US-made for 922 compliance. So, suppose I buy an imported thumbhole stock and cut off the pistol grip and the all extra growths and convert it to a regular stock. Then sand it down completely and refinish it. Would it be possible to say that is now a US-made stock especially in light of the amount of work that went into it? As an extension of that...would it be possible to take any part of an AK (such as an original disconnector) and modify it enough to then say it is a US-made item? What about furniture in general...could a complete refinish and restoration be considered US-made or am I stretching it? What do you guys think? |
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I think you're over thinking it a bit.
There is no way to prove with out some lab test that the wood, or any part for that matter, isn't US made. The law doesn't require parts to be marked US made either. You don't even have to get into where the tree was grown and where it was milled. If you're getting charged for 922R voliation and aren't a manufacture, you probably got WAY bigger fish to fry. |
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You're stretching it, and that ain't all that'll be stretched once you get to 'Club Fed'. You see, unless you are a legitimate manufacturer, nothing you make would be recognized as 'USA'. Also, A finished part that is imported can never then be 'USA' regardless of modifications*. An imported raw material such as wood that is made into a finished product here in the USA would then be 'USA-made'. It's easy to stay within the law, so there's no percentage in trying to beat it.
* I know there are some parts floating around that seem to defy this statement, such as a ventilated steel hand guard welded onto an imported gas tube and labeled 'Made In USA'. In fact, since the gas tube is not a countable part (only the hand guard is countable), and the vented steel hand guard is made here, it is labeled correctly. |
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What about furniture in general...could a complete refinish and restoration be considered US-made or am I stretching it? In order for a part to be US made, you have to change the configutation and use. You could use an imported stock as raw material to make a pistol grip and the grip would be US made. You can use the ends of a milled receiver to make a new receiver (converting scrap into a receiver) and the receiver is US made. You cannot convert an imported stock into a US made stock by refinishing it. You cannot convert an imported barrel into a US made barrel by refinishing it. |
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<snip> If you're getting charged for 922R voliation and aren't a manufacture, you probably got WAY bigger fish to fry. If that's the case, why are so many people obsessed over it? Honest question, because I'm endlessly frustrated by all the little 922r parts to add. |
| Meh...to me 922r is like paying taxes for selling your physical gold at a profit or getting paid a few schekles for painting someone's house under the table or babysitting your neighbor's kid. Sure it's the law to pay taxes on the income and capital gains, but ya know... |
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And just so we are all on the same page...I'm not advocating any violation of law and I'm not trying to somehow be slick to skirt the law. All of my affected weapons are 100% compliant. I was just merely asking the question because it seemed to me that there is a point at which the crossover is made from a foreign material to a US-made product. I have also seen a lot of stuff which just didn't make sense when passed through the 922 filter such as what I started the discussion off with...a foreign slab of wood is cut here in the US and called US-made. Basically a slab is cut, shaped and finished. Okay then, so why is a converted thumbhole that is cut, shaped and finished by an individual not considered US-made? Where is the line? Is the amount of work required to cross the line written somewhere?
Some might argue the wood came here uncut, so it is technically in its bare state. However, the foreign laminate "blocks" were pressed from sheets with glue or epoxy or whatever, and processed into blocks, so some work was done to them overseas. Actually, the manufacturing of the bare laminate blocks easily took much more time than the final cutting here. |
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You're stretching it, and that ain't all that'll be stretched once you get to 'Club Fed'. You see, unless you are a legitimate manufacturer, nothing you make would be recognized as 'USA'. Also, A finished part that is imported can never then be 'USA' regardless of modifications*. An imported raw material such as wood that is made into a finished product here in the USA would then be 'USA-made'. It's easy to stay within the law, so there's no percentage in trying to beat it. * I know there are some parts floating around that seem to defy this statement, such as a ventilated steel hand guard welded onto an imported gas tube and labeled 'Made In USA'. In fact, since the gas tube is not a countable part (only the hand guard is countable), and the vented steel hand guard is made here, it is labeled correctly. so if i glue together plywood and make my own stock i cant count it as a us part? 
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Is it possible to prove that the refinished wood is not a "US" part? If stamped US and has not foreign marks, is it US? How could one prove other wise? I work for a forensics company. We don't do gun work, but we do similar work on determining manufacturers of products. We identify items in court based on collections of exemplars (i.e. if we have 2,000 valves of the same type from various manufacturers, you get a pretty good idea of the differences to look for - these differences are hard to notice with only a couple of examples) and experiments. Small fluctuations in the size/shape of the stock may give it away. The screws and buttplate may give it away. Maybe the wood grain. I don't know. I think wood would be very difficult to analyze. Much harder than plastic and steel, but I don't think it would be impossible. |
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Why did 922 come about? Just curious. If it didn't exist the import ban on certain firearms would be even more meaningless than it is now. people would simply impart all the parts and assemble the rifles here. (22r prohibits the assembly of a rifle that can't be imported using imported parts. BATFE regulations allow the use of imported perts, so long as the number of imported counted parts does not exceed 10. |
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Where is the line? Is the amount of work required to cross the line written somewhere? As I already posted, you must change the configuration and use. A laminate blank is NOT a stock. The stock made from the blank is a stock. If the work needed to make it a stock is done in the US it's a US made stock. The thumbhole stock that you modify into a non-thumbhole stock is still a stock, so it isn't US made. |
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Why did 922 come about? Just curious. We elected morons, and those morons tried to make us safe. The government does not disarm its subjects to make the subjects safe. The government disarms its subjects to make the government safe from its subjects. All statements by the government to the contrary are merely an attempt to mislead the subjects who are being disarmed. |
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Carlos,
And just so we are all on the same page...I'm not advocating any violation of law and I'm not trying to somehow be slick to skirt the law. All of my affected weapons are 100% compliant. I was just merely asking the question because it seemed to me that there is a point at which the crossover is made from a foreign material to a US-made product. I have also seen a lot of stuff which just didn't make sense when passed through the 922 filter such as what I started the discussion off with...a foreign slab of wood is cut here in the US and called US-made. Basically a slab is cut, shaped and finished. Okay then, so why is a converted thumbhole that is cut, shaped and finished by an individual not considered US-made? Where is the line? Is the amount of work required to cross the line written somewhere? Some might argue the wood came here uncut, so it is technically in its bare state. However, the foreign laminate "blocks" were pressed from sheets with glue or epoxy or whatever, and processed into blocks, so some work was done to them overseas. Actually, the manufacturing of the bare laminate blocks easily took much more time than the final cutting here. Some thoughts on why 922(r) exists might get you to relax just a bit. Now I don’t want to diminish the importance of compliance with the law, or even hint at trying to skirt the law. But 922(r) wasn’t put there for home builders and hobbiests like us. Rather it was included as a vehicle to offer up a little more protectionism for US gun manufacturers, and to drive up the cost of military style rifles. By requiring guns becoming 922(r), they ensure that makers of military style rifles in foreign nations are not going to flood American shores with “cheap assault rifles.” It’s a twofold purpose. Drive up the price of military style rifles so the poor can’t afford them (which is politically correct politicians way of saying let’s make it so black people in the projects can’t afford them - this is how politicians practice racism); while at the same time, offering a little protectionism for American gun companies. Remember, the 1968 gun control act was sponsored by US gun companies who were taking a beating competing against imported surplus arms. All this is to say, they’re much more interested in minutia details from some like Century or Arsenal, than someone like you. |
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