AK Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Unbelievable... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/24/2008 5:42:26 PM EDT
The other night I went to Vector Arms shop (nice being local), they are apparently selling off their remaining inventory. There were 4 guys in there buying rifles. It didn;t seem like they had any idea of what they were buying. I think they were afraid of the possible ban and just in there to get something beforehand. One guy was looking at some H&K replicas and really like the one with the "silencer". Another guy bought a Polish AK under folder, H&K replica and a UZI. Paid almost $3500 in cash. He then proceeds to ask "What do these shoot?". The Vector guy had to tell him the Polish AK shoots a 7.62x39, the H&K shoots a .223 and the UZI is a 9mm. The guy was writing the calibers on the box with a pen. I could not believe it. He had absolutely no clue what he was buying. He then goes on the ask "I want a scope for the H&K". The Vector guy asks for more info, like what do you want to do with the gun? Long range, short range, etc... He replies "Home defense" and asks if they have a night vision scope. At that point I almost laughed. These guys probably bought almost $10K in guns and had no clue what they were buying. Incredible! 
BTW: I got me a nice Yugo M70 underfolder, four nice Polish 30 round mags ($12 each), and a nice bayonet. 
|
|
The buying panic is across the board. I personally know 2 persons whom both voted for Obama, and in the past 2 weeks both have went out and bought at least one firearm (one guy a Sig and the other an AK with a supply of ammo;);both acknowledged to me that they may soon be outlawed by the chosen one so they want to get in before they are banned. The thought process here is beyond me, or more correctly my thought process is way the f*ck ahead of theirs.
|
| I'm here in Utah as well. I've been to Vector a few times over the years. People there are really nice and they gave me a tour of their workshop once. I was looking for an AK underfolder, they were $400-$500 back in those days. And Vector uses paddle mag release on their HKs, most other US shops just have the button that requires your right index finger to grow a couple of inches. |
|
Quoted:
A "rifle for home defense" kinda says it all, lets us know who we're dealing with. The asshat in question is a danger to himself and others. How wonderful.. 
-L A rifle can be the BEST choice for home deffense. The guy needs to learn alittle bit(night vision). I dont know why you are all such pricks to the newbies. You dont have a clue what kind of people they are.... if they prove to be asshats fine. Obviously you could do with a little more knowledge yourself if you think that using a 223/5.56 for home deffense is a ridiculous choice. Try worrying about the plank in your eye, before you consider the speck in your brothers. |
|
A rifle can be the BEST choice for home deffense. The guy needs to learn alittle bit(night vision). I dont know why you are all such pricks to the newbies. You dont have a clue what kind of people they are.... if they prove to be asshats fine. Obviously you could do with a little more knowledge yourself if you think that using a 223/5.56 for home deffense is a ridiculous choice. Try worrying about the plank in your eye, before you consider the speck in your brothers.
Sorry these guys were beyond "newbie". How many times have gone and bought $3500 worth of rifles and then asked "what do these shoot?". Probably never even when you were a newbie. I can maybe forgive an 18 year old for doing it, but these guys were 40-50 years old. If I don't know the caliber of a particular rifle, I ask first, do some research and see if it's what I really want, then buy. Not the other way around. Using a .223 as a home defense rifle is one thing, but asking for night vision scope for my home defense rifle is ridiculous. It like a guy that has no training and never rode a motorcycle going in a buying a 1000cc sport bike with 160 hp. Guaranteed problems. I expect some buyer remorse in the near future from some of them, so maybe I can benefit from their ignorance. |
|
Quoted:
I'm here in Utah as well. I've been to Vector a few times over the years. People there are really nice and they gave me a tour of their workshop once. I was looking for an AK underfolder, they were $400-$500 back in those days. And Vector uses paddle mag release on their HKs, most other US shops just have the button that requires your right index finger to grow a couple of inches. Yeah, the people there were great. I went through their shop area few months ago. If you need some mags, they are selling some nice 30 rounders for a good price. Unfortunately I had to pay a little more than that for the underfolder I got, but still a decent price. |
|
If intelligence was a qualifier to own weapons and exercise your 2nd amendment right, most of the people I have met would not qualify. People seem to agglomerate in to defined groups of varying levels of intelligence, each tear below another is viewed as ignorant.
|
|
Quoted:
If intelligence was a qualifier to own weapons and exercise your 2nd amendment right, most of the people I have met would not qualify. People seem to agglomerate in to defined groups of varying levels of intelligence, each tear below another is viewed as ignorant. Intelligence & Ignorance aren't antonyms. You can be intelligent and ignorant at the same time. Conversely Educated and Intelligent aren't synonyms. The real question about those guys is, in two months will they still be ignorant on their weapons or will they be more knowledgeable? And (spelling nazi alert) its "tier". 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If intelligence was a qualifier to own weapons and exercise your 2nd amendment right, most of the people I have met would not qualify. People seem to agglomerate in to defined groups of varying levels of intelligence, each tear below another is viewed as ignorant. Intelligence & Ignorance aren't antonyms. You can be intelligent and ignorant at the same time. Conversely Educated and Intelligent aren't synonyms. The real question about those guys is, in two months will they still be ignorant on their weapons or will they be more knowledgeable? And (spelling nazi alert) its "tier".
Good points, but you loose some for getting cuaght up in grammar. But what ever keeps your warm and fuzzies up and gets you through the day. |
|
Quoted:
A rifle can be the BEST choice for home deffense. The guy needs to learn alittle bit(night vision). I dont know why you are all such pricks to the newbies. You dont have a clue what kind of people they are.... if they prove to be asshats fine. Obviously you could do with a little more knowledge yourself if you think that using a 223/5.56 for home deffense is a ridiculous choice. Try worrying about the plank in your eye, before you consider the speck in your brothers.
Sorry these guys were beyond "newbie". How many times have gone and bought $3500 worth of rifles and then asked "what do these shoot?". Probably never even when you were a newbie. I can maybe forgive an 18 year old for doing it, but these guys were 40-50 years old. If I don't know the caliber of a particular rifle, I ask first, do some research and see if it's what I really want, then buy. Not the other way around. Using a .223 as a home defense rifle is one thing, but asking for night vision scope for my home defense rifle is ridiculous. It like a guy that has no training and never rode a motorcycle going in a buying a 1000cc sport bike with 160 hp. Guaranteed problems. I expect some buyer remorse in the near future from some of them, so maybe I can benefit from their ignorance. My response was more for the "Buying a rifle for home deffense says it all" comment than anything else |
I agree that a rifle can be a very good choice for HD, but the NV scope!?  I think a flashlight may(just maybe) serve him better I agree that you need to research before buying, when I turned 18 i went out, looked at what was available, researched online and discovered a plethera of different calibers and designs and chose what fit my needs best. Guns are no different than anything else, see motocycle analogy above.
|
|
Let's not forget that of the Millions of successful home defense stories in a huge number of the cases the homeowner resisted with a rifle...mostly .22 caliber.
Maybe not the preferred weapon of choice but it has worked well for these heroes. As for the ignorant who bought the rifles it is not a difficult concept to understand that many would go as far as to welcome an AWB to make a profit...no matter what their beliefs may be...The post-election frenzy was a prelude of this. I personally haven't been stockpiling shit for resale...but for my and family's use. This year I sold all of my 40 caliber pistols. This is a caliber that I've never had a big interest in but that I acquired during the 40 hype years. Oh...and I like collecting guns too. Edited for spell check. |
|
Quoted:
"Good points, but you loose some for getting cuaght up in grammar. But what ever keeps your warm and fuzzies up and gets you through the day." You are posting about someone's intelligence and you misspell "tier". Do you not see the irony in this? I am single, I don't iron. |
|
Quoted:
How do you figure?If someone wants something to protect thier home with get a mossberg 500 or a remington 870 for 500 dollars cheaper.Not a rifle in .223 unless you want the perp to survive to testify against you. You should get with Legendre. You may as well both figure what you're talking about together. |
|
This is a general reply to yourself and others who made disparaging comments in reference to my previous disparaging comments.
Quoted:
Quoted:
A "rifle for home defense" kinda says it all, lets us know who we're dealing with. The asshat in question is a danger to himself and others. How wonderful..
-L A rifle can be the BEST choice for home deffense. The guy needs to learn alittle bit(night vision). I dont know why you are all such pricks to the newbies. You dont have a clue what kind of people they are.... if they prove to be asshats fine. Obviously you could do with a little more knowledge yourself if you think that using a 223/5.56 for home deffense is a ridiculous choice. Try worrying about the plank in your eye, before you consider the speck in your brothers. First off, my comments were aimed at anonymous individual(s) who are neither present on this forum, nor party to this discussion. For all I know, they might not even exist.. so it's safe to say that their feelings and reputations have been spared. I do stand by my my comments that rifles in common military chamberings are at best poor, and at worst dangerous choices for home defense. Rifle bullets just travel way too far with too much energy to be a safe and predictable solution in occupied dwellings (especially in closely populated areas). And even if you do manage a good shoot (i.e. bogies down, friendlies safe, no collateral damage) - when the news media / civil action gets to whore out that 'assault rifle' for oohs and ahhs, the resulting fallout is harmful to the lawful pursuits which we all enjoy so much. So yeah, as much as I enjoy military-style small arms, the LAST thing I EVER want to hear is that some civilian shot some other civilian with one, to say nothing of accidentally killing or injuring a bystander or next-door neighbor. And that is why my home defenses consist of laser-hallways, poison gas and moving-wall traps. -L |
| Interestingly, LEA's are prone to use carbines in military calibers (i.e., 5.56x45mm) due to the higher likelihood of making hits with a long gun, a commensurate reduction in the number of stray rounds going down range, greater likelihood of incapacitating the threat and...reduced penetration in intermediate barriers as compared to pistol rounds. Add proper ammunition selection to the mix and you have an all around better (safer) platform in a carbine. Who would have thought? |
|
Quoted:
Interestingly, LEA's are prone to use carbines in military calibers (i.e., 5.56x45mm) due to the higher likelihood of making hits with a long gun a commensurate reduction in the number of stray rounds going down range, greater likelihood of incapacitating the threat (...) Ok, completely with you on the 'long gun' advantages so far. (...) and...reduced penetration in intermediate barriers as compared to pistol rounds. Add proper ammunition selection to the mix and you have an all around better (safer) platform in a carbine. Who would have thought?
(Emphasis mine) Do you we have any empirical data (box-o-truth may suffice), to back up this assertion? If 5.56 is less prone than (let's say) .38 special to penetrate a typical pulpboard home wall - and exit at lethal velocity, I'm all ears. What about 5.56 vs. low-recoil 12ga 00 or 4-buckshot.. or birdshot? Still, even if we ignore the issue of overpenetration, this still doesn't address my concerns about negative media attention cast on so-called 'assault weapons'. Aren't we harming our own cause, by suggesting that these types of firearms be deployed - by civilians - in potential deadly-force situations? When more sociable guns will do, why cast our beleaguered ARs and AKs into the spotlight? (As you've probably figured out, I'm a shotgun, or as a last-ditch, revolver guy.) -L ETA: This thread is now pretty well hijacked, but I'm not sure that it really matters as it was kind of a POS to begin with. Next time, I'll probably just keep my opinions to myself.. |
|
Fuck the media. The media will fuck us over even if we use BB guns to defend ourselves. Remember when they portrayed the Glock as an assault pistol. I'm not going to allow the liberal media to determine, in advance, the best way for me to protect my family. If so, then they already won.
I'm a firm believer in shotguns and revolvers. Revolvers is what I keep loaded in my safes...but as an owner of more than a hundred weapons I'm going to grab the first thing available to me to protect my family. It pays to train and practice hitting the target. That way you don't have to worry about the "hitting-the-neighbor" thingy. 
Caliber selection discussion aside, I believe that "long guns" make great home defense weapons. There is a big difference between theory and reality. What are the odds of a scumbag perp fleeing the scene after being engaged by a home owner brandishing a long gun, as opposed to the odds of a handgun. Talk about self-defense without taking a shot. I bet the media will love those stories. There has been a shitload of them in real life...and not by gun forum commandoes but by regular people. You can even use your long gun's stock to neutralize a wounded perp that won't bleed to death. Not shooting him again will get you some media sympathy.
|
|
Quoted:
Snip... Do you we have any empirical data (box-o-truth may suffice), to back up this assertion? If 5.56 is less prone than (let's say) .38 special to penetrate a typical pulpboard home wall - and exit at lethal velocity, I'm all ears. What about 5.56 vs. low-recoil 12ga 00 or 4-buckshot.. or birdshot? Yes, Box-O-Truth and O_P have covered this, as have Ammo-Oracle and a good number of agencies through various research, IIRC. It's all available on the net. Keep in mind that anything that will punch holes in a bad guy will punch holes in intermediate barriers, but 5.56mm projectiles will typically penetrate less than pistol projectiles in most materials. Still, even if we ignore the issue of overpenetration, this still doesn't address my concerns about negative media attention cast on so-called 'assault weapons'. Aren't we harming our own cause, by suggesting that these types of firearms be deployed - by civilians - in potential deadly-force situations? When more sociable guns will do, why cast our beleaguered ARs and AKs into the spotlight?
If this is your concern, you might want to stay away from "hollow point" bullets, too. Seriously, can you reference any legal self-defense shootings where the type of firearm involved created any negative press? Can you reference any in which the make and model of firearm was even made known? I'll bet you can find more than a few cases where innocuous firearms were misrepresented as "assault weapons", though. I would argue that it just doesn't matter. Anyway, I can't see how the use of such weapons in instances of completely legitimate self-defense could do much other than legitimize the use of such weapons. It would be difficult to say that the father of four stopped the home invaders, but was really wrong not to hand over the wife and kids because he used a carbine. We're not talking about school shootings, mall shootings, etc. The kind of stuff we're talking about barely makes the local news in most places, and if legitimate, doesn't even rate the attention of a grand jury. Why deprive yourself and others of an excellent tool due to assumption and conjecture regarding what hasn't actually happened or a lack of exposure to the physics involved? |
|
Last year, Florida (home of the ak47):
Three armed men allegedly barged through the unlocked front door of a home occupied by five men and one woman, most of them students. Police say the residents fled in multiple directions as the suspects raided the home. One of the victims grabbed a semi-automatic AK-47 and hid in a closet. He heard two shots fired somewhere in the home and the next thing he knew one of the intruders was trying to force his way into the closet with a handgun. The victim fired three rounds, killing the gunman. "He did everything possible to avoid a physical confrontation. The last thing he wanted to do was kill somebody," said Orlando Deputy Sheriff Carlos Padilla, who didn't know why the house was targeted. "Deep down in his heart, he felt his friends were getting killed?'
|
|
It doesn't matter.
I don't thing that the perp is going to stick around long enough to find out. I'm sure that the other 2 perps didn't stick around after seeing (in their minds) a lunatic coming out of a closet with an AK. The joke of the post was: don't bring a handgun to an AK47 fight. 
Doesn't look like the victim here had too much of a problem maneuvering a long gun in a tight space either. |
|
Hey, cool! From personal sniping to reasoned arguments; I'd call that a success. it usually goes the other way, as I'm sure we've all seen.
Rictus, I guess I will review the available information on barrier penetration and see what I can gather. My last update on these issues was my CWP refresher, about one year ago. But I don't think that I'll juggle my home defense hardware.. not when a shotty is always close at hand. General consensus at that time was to avoid rifles in the home, at all costs. Speaking of carry issues, it has been successfully argued in Minnesota that hollow-point bullets are in fact the *safer* alternative for personal defense, as they are less likely to exit the human body and cause unintended harm. The bystander safety issue has apparently trumped the 'built to kill' / intent arguments. Have you heard anything about this? Instructor was emphatic about avoiding ball and hard-cast bullets, and preferably using HPs. Obviously, we have several rather different opinions on the media around here. I gather from your comments that you see no peril in the selection of a 'bad' gun for home defense, in that the media won't bother to report 'good' self-defense shoots. Another poster has offered that the 'liberal' media is just out to get gun owners - ready to screw them at any possible opportunity. As for myself, I trust the media to put whatever sells on the screen - if it leads, it bleeds, as the saying goes. In short, I simply don't trust these folks to make any decisions that are not in their own best (financial) interest. If they could make money by screwing all the gun owners, they'd do it.. if they could make more money by not screwing any gun owners.. they'd do it. Except for PBS and NPR, they're untainted by financial interest and without bias. -L "Find the joke in this post" |
|
Quoted:
Snip... "Find the joke in this post" Um, I almost had to call you on it.
FWIW, check out the penetration of 00 Buckshot. It's impressive. And I am not personally concerned with the type of firearm I might use for self-defense. I'm not going to be in the wrong legally, though I have every intention of being alive. Even if an incident sees the grand jury and I am indicted for something I did in defense of life, the charges will be based on something other than actual wrongdoing on my part, so I will suck up the financial destruction and continue living, but that's a worst case scenario. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
How do you figure?If someone wants something to protect thier home with get a mossberg 500 or a remington 870 for 500 dollars cheaper.Not a rifle in .223 unless you want the perp to survive to testify against you. You should get with Legendre. You may as well both figure what you're talking about together. wow what the hell is this suppose to mean? |
|
Quoted:
Fuck the media. The media will fuck us over even if we use BB guns to defend ourselves. Remember when they portrayed the Glock as an assault pistol. I'm not going to allow the liberal media to determine, in advance, the best way for me to protect my family. If so, then they already won. I'm a firm believer in shotguns and revolvers. Revolvers is what I keep loaded in my safes...but as an owner of more than a hundred weapons I'm going to grab the first thing available to me to protect my family. It pays to train and practice hitting the target. That way you don't have to worry about the "hitting-the-neighbor" thingy.
Caliber selection discussion aside, I believe that "long guns" make great home defense weapons. There is a big difference between theory and reality. What are the odds of a scumbag perp fleeing the scene after being engaged by a home owner brandishing a long gun, as opposed to the odds of a handgun. Talk about self-defense without taking a shot. I bet the media will love those stories. There has been a shitload of them in real life...and not by gun forum commandoes but by regular people. You can even use your long gun's stock to neutralize a wounded perp that won't bleed to death. Not shooting him again will get you some media sympathy. Thats nice for the headlines "local man shoots home invader than repeatedly beats him when hes wounded and dying." |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How do you figure?If someone wants something to protect thier home with get a mossberg 500 or a remington 870 for 500 dollars cheaper.Not a rifle in .223 unless you want the perp to survive to testify against you. You should get with Legendre. You may as well both figure what you're talking about together. wow what the hell is this suppose to mean? It references a lack of familiarity with the terminal effects of the .223 Rem./5.56x45mm cartridge. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck the media. The media will fuck us over even if we use BB guns to defend ourselves. Remember when they portrayed the Glock as an assault pistol. I'm not going to allow the liberal media to determine, in advance, the best way for me to protect my family. If so, then they already won. I'm a firm believer in shotguns and revolvers. Revolvers is what I keep loaded in my safes...but as an owner of more than a hundred weapons I'm going to grab the first thing available to me to protect my family. It pays to train and practice hitting the target. That way you don't have to worry about the "hitting-the-neighbor" thingy.
Caliber selection discussion aside, I believe that "long guns" make great home defense weapons. There is a big difference between theory and reality. What are the odds of a scumbag perp fleeing the scene after being engaged by a home owner brandishing a long gun, as opposed to the odds of a handgun. Talk about self-defense without taking a shot. I bet the media will love those stories. There has been a shitload of them in real life...and not by gun forum commandoes but by regular people. You can even use your long gun's stock to neutralize a wounded perp that won't bleed to death. Not shooting him again will get you some media sympathy. Thats nice for the headlines "local man shoots home invader than repeatedly beats him when hes wounded and dying." Have you ever heard: "while he was down he was reaching for his gun"? 
|
|
Quoted:
A rifle can be the BEST choice for home deffense. The guy needs to learn alittle bit(night vision). I dont know why you are all such pricks to the newbies. You dont have a clue what kind of people they are.... if they prove to be asshats fine. Obviously you could do with a little more knowledge yourself if you think that using a 223/5.56 for home deffense is a ridiculous choice. Try worrying about the plank in your eye, before you consider the speck in your brothers.
Sorry these guys were beyond "newbie". How many times have gone and bought $3500 worth of rifles and then asked "what do these shoot?". Probably never even when you were a newbie. I can maybe forgive an 18 year old for doing it, but these guys were 40-50 years old. If I don't know the caliber of a particular rifle, I ask first, do some research and see if it's what I really want, then buy. Not the other way around. Using a .223 as a home defense rifle is one thing, but asking for night vision scope for my home defense rifle is ridiculous. It like a guy that has no training and never rode a motorcycle going in a buying a 1000cc sport bike with 160 hp. Guaranteed problems. I expect some buyer remorse in the near future from some of them, so maybe I can benefit from their ignorance. night vision for home defense is rediculous? how so? it gives the home owner the advantage of knowing where everything is in his home, and the ability to see without the lights on. i would say it is very reasonable, especialy say if he lives in a rural area. dont crucify the newbies so soon. we did just gain annother gun owner. unless their the pricks who buy them for the sole purpose of making $ when the ban comes. |
|
Quoted:
night vision for home defense is rediculous? how so? it gives the home owner the advantage of knowing where everything is in his home, and the ability to see without the lights on. i would say it is very reasonable, especialy say if he lives in a rural area. dont crucify the newbies so soon. we did just gain annother gun owner. unless their the pricks who buy them for the sole purpose of making $ when the ban comes. Go get your hunting rifle, the one with the 10 power scope. Now go around your house looking through the scope in the daylight and try to find the "bad guy". Perhaps night vision goggles may help, (until someone turns the light on), but a scope, no. If he lives in a rural area and needs a scope for home defense, that means he is shooting long distances outside the house. He will be going to prison for murder for sniping some guy. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
night vision for home defense is rediculous? how so? it gives the home owner the advantage of knowing where everything is in his home, and the ability to see without the lights on. i would say it is very reasonable, especialy say if he lives in a rural area. dont crucify the newbies so soon. we did just gain annother gun owner. unless their the pricks who buy them for the sole purpose of making $ when the ban comes. Go get your hunting rifle, the one with the 10 power scope. Now go around your house looking through the scope in the daylight and try to find the "bad guy". Perhaps night vision goggles may help, (until someone turns the light on), but a scope, no. If he lives in a rural area and needs a scope for home defense, that means he is shooting long distances outside the house. He will be going to prison for murder for sniping some guy. Nothing necessarily wrong with night vision, though a good white light and quality training are far less expensive and more versatile. As for "scopes", just what are we talking about? PVS-10? PVS-14 monocular? Magnified, unmagnified? A PVS-22 from Wes at MSTN? Some models fit certain roles better than others. Also, if you are clearing your house rather than waiting quietly in a position of dominance something has gone very wrong. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How do you figure?If someone wants something to protect thier home with get a mossberg 500 or a remington 870 for 500 dollars cheaper.Not a rifle in .223 unless you want the perp to survive to testify against you. You should get with Legendre. You may as well both figure what you're talking about together. wow what the hell is this suppose to mean? It references a lack of familiarity with the terminal effects of the .223 Rem./5.56x45mm cartridge. so your saying that a rifle in .223 cal would be better than a 12 guage or a larger rifle?I think we can agree that if youre looking for a home defense gun a rifle in .223 is noyt the best. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck the media. The media will fuck us over even if we use BB guns to defend ourselves. Remember when they portrayed the Glock as an assault pistol. I'm not going to allow the liberal media to determine, in advance, the best way for me to protect my family. If so, then they already won. I'm a firm believer in shotguns and revolvers. Revolvers is what I keep loaded in my safes...but as an owner of more than a hundred weapons I'm going to grab the first thing available to me to protect my family. It pays to train and practice hitting the target. That way you don't have to worry about the "hitting-the-neighbor" thingy.
Caliber selection discussion aside, I believe that "long guns" make great home defense weapons. There is a big difference between theory and reality. What are the odds of a scumbag perp fleeing the scene after being engaged by a home owner brandishing a long gun, as opposed to the odds of a handgun. Talk about self-defense without taking a shot. I bet the media will love those stories. There has been a shitload of them in real life...and not by gun forum commandoes but by regular people. You can even use your long gun's stock to neutralize a wounded perp that won't bleed to death. Not shooting him again will get you some media sympathy. Thats nice for the headlines "local man shoots home invader than repeatedly beats him when hes wounded and dying." Have you ever heard: "while he was down he was reaching for his gun"? 
haha yeah he was reaching for his gun so i lunged 10 feet and beat the living snot out of him with my rifle. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How do you figure?If someone wants something to protect thier home with get a mossberg 500 or a remington 870 for 500 dollars cheaper.Not a rifle in .223 unless you want the perp to survive to testify against you. You should get with Legendre. You may as well both figure what you're talking about together. wow what the hell is this suppose to mean? It references a lack of familiarity with the terminal effects of the .223 Rem./5.56x45mm cartridge. so your saying that a rifle in .223 cal would be better than a 12 guage or a larger rifle?I think we can agree that if youre looking for a home defense gun a rifle in .223 is noyt the best. I would argue the very opposite. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
A "rifle for home defense" kinda says it all, lets us know who we're dealing with. The asshat in question is a danger to himself and others. How wonderful..
-L A rifle can be the BEST choice for home deffense. The guy needs to learn alittle bit(night vision). I dont know why you are all such pricks to the newbies. You dont have a clue what kind of people they are.... if they prove to be asshats fine. Obviously you could do with a little more knowledge yourself if you think that using a 223/5.56 for home deffense is a ridiculous choice. Try worrying about the plank in your eye, before you consider the speck in your brothers. Agreed, A rifle can be great for home defense, that is if you know which end to point at the perp! 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
A "rifle for home defense" kinda says it all, lets us know who we're dealing with. The asshat in question is a danger to himself and others. How wonderful..
-L Not only a rifle for home defense, but one with a scope on it...WTF! The term "scope" can mean a lot of things in this context. It may not be the appropriate term, but I might give a new shooter the benefit of the doubt. He could mean dot sight or something. Or not. And there's nothing wrong with employing a rifle for home defense. Not within certain parameters, anyway. |
|
Quoted:
A "rifle for home defense" kinda says it all, lets us know who we're dealing with. The asshat in question is a danger to himself and others. How wonderful..
-L This is what worries me too. I've been reading about and seeing images of a lot of botched AK builds done by people lately, and I'm wondering how long before the AK is considered "unsafe" because of malfunctions due poor manufacturing... 
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How do you figure?If someone wants something to protect thier home with get a mossberg 500 or a remington 870 for 500 dollars cheaper.Not a rifle in .223 unless you want the perp to survive to testify against you. You should get with Legendre. You may as well both figure what you're talking about together. wow what the hell is this suppose to mean? It references a lack of familiarity with the terminal effects of the .223 Rem./5.56x45mm cartridge. so your saying that a rifle in .223 cal would be better than a 12 guage or a larger rifle?I think we can agree that if youre looking for a home defense gun a rifle in .223 is noyt the best. I wouldn't agree with that at all. At real home defense ranges, a 5.56 AR with good ammo will do very bad things to people, with little fear of over penetration. Buckshot and pistol rounds have a very bad habit of going through alot of stuff before they stop, including badguys and the walls behind them. I doubt seriously that a bad guy with 3 rounds of M193 in his chest/face is going to "survive to testify against you" |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Unbelievable... (Page 1 of 2)
AK Sponsor