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Posted: 8/9/2009 5:16:52 PM EDT
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Just ordered a kit from copes : http://www.copesdistributing.net/product_info.php?cPath=49&products_id=1328
Wanted a 74 , and the cost on this was justifyiable after my estimates for building it out. So , furthermore i'm curious as to the quality of these kits after the build? Read a few articles online and a few posts here, but not too many about the quality of these rifles. |
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The key factor is the condition of the kit. A mint kit is going to make a better rifle than a kit in only "good" condition.
As for the Bulgarian AK-74 kits overall quality, they're "probably" the best of them all. According to Kalashnikov himself, when asked who built the best AK's other than his own Russian produced rifles, he said the Bulgarians built the best AK rifles of them all. The Bulgarians made very close copies of the Russian rifles, and often used parts imported from Russia. Quality was very good, and they are as close to a Russian AK-74 as you can get. So, how good your rifle will be depends on the condition of the kit, and how good a job you do. |
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Well , i just got the kit, don't know much about AK kits as a whole , but what I got sure looks nice , bore looks clean and no corrosion or the like (Of course I can't check TE or anything like that).
I paid $420 , shoulda bought a few when they were under $200 , but oh well , this is better than the $1k 74s I've seen. Now I've gotta build this up , hopefully building up from a flat won't be too bad :) |
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absolutely - buy an NDS-2 receiver. Nothing else comes even close, and it is the only heat treated receiver (sorry OOW, but a blowtorch on the axle holes ins't heat treating!).
There are a few interesting things I'm discovering as I build these bulgies. Why toes the trunion have an 8.5 degree angle. Are the 1-4 numbers on the rear trunions a mold identifyer or is there a dimensional difference I can't find? |
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absolutely - buy an NDS-2 receiver. Nothing else comes even close, and it is the only heat treated receiver (sorry OOW, but a blowtorch on the axle holes ins't heat treating!). There are a few interesting things I'm discovering as I build these bulgies. Why toes the trunion have an 8.5 degree angle. Are the 1-4 numbers on the rear trunions a mold identifyer or is there a dimensional difference I can't find? Is it overly difficult to build up from a NDS? I've been spoiled by AR builds, this is a whole different world. |
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An AK 'build' is considerably more work than an AR 'assemble'.
You will still need a few tools to get this done properly. I couldnt imagine doing a build without a press. Here are my two recent Bulgy 74 builds. ORF kit with Bulgy side folder 
Copes plum kit (next to Polish Pass) 
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Cassini put it well.
You don't "build" an AR. You assemble it. AK builds are much more involved. You'll need at least a press or maybe one of the modified bolt cutter tools to do the rivets, and you'll definitely need a drill press, a dremel tool, some punches, etc. There's lots of info on the net about building. Just do a search here and on various AK sites. If you don't want to spring for all the tools and/or you aren't all that mechanically inclined, you'll do better to buy the NDS receiver Mark (gunplumber) mentioned and send everything to him to do it for you. |
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Yeah , I emailed him about doing the build for me........
I really , really shoulda pulled the trigger on the 5-6 kits I was looking at 3 years ago, Would have warranted all the expense...Oh well , I guess I'll learn, I still have several AR lowers to be assembled out :) |
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Makes me want to try and Build an AK AR's aren't that impressive when I can do em.  That's what I thought till i got the thing ,lots more work involved :D I'm not gonna save any money building just 1 AK up , compared to assembling ARs which has saved me $500-$600 so far. |
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Makes me want to try and Build an AK AR's aren't that impressive when I can do em. That's what I thought till i got the thing ,lots more work involved :D I'm not gonna save any money building just 1 AK up , compared to assembling ARs which has saved me $500-$600 so far. That's absolutely right. Just like you said above, it was worth doing a few years back when the kits were cheap enough to justify buying the tools. Ya know, on another note, there is one thing I forgot about that might be challenging to you on the AR stuff. It wouldn't save you any money, but if you just like a challenge, you might enjoy it. That would be doing an 80% lower. It would still require some tools, but if you already have a good drill press it might not be too terribly expensive. If you didn't want to get into the whole anodizing thing, you could just finish it with aluma-black (provided you cleaned it well with acetone first). Here are a couple of links, if that's something of interest: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=210572 http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=444489 That would definitely bump things up a notch from just assembling parts. 
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Makes me want to try and Build an AK AR's aren't that impressive when I can do em. That's what I thought till i got the thing ,lots more work involved :D I'm not gonna save any money building just 1 AK up , compared to assembling ARs which has saved me $500-$600 so far. That's absolutely right. Just like you said above, it was worth doing a few years back when the kits were cheap enough to justify buying the tools. Ya know, on another note, there is one thing I forgot about that might be challenging to you on the AR stuff. It wouldn't save you any money, but if you just like a challenge, you might enjoy it. That would be doing an 80% lower. It would still require some tools, but if you already have a good drill press it might not be too terribly expensive. If you didn't want to get into the whole anodizing thing, you could just finish it with aluma-black (provided you cleaned it well with acetone first). Here are a couple of links, if that's something of interest: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=210572 http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=444489 That would definitely bump things up a notch from just assembling parts. Yep , looked at doing the 80% lowers and am almost sure I could do it (One of the guys on this forum did it with hand tools , so I'm sure I could do it with access to a drill press). The painting of it is what bothers me, I'm quite familiar with anodizing aluminum enough to know I don't want to mess with it. I haven't checked on 80% lower prices, as the last time I checked they were around $200 compared to the last batch of lowers i bought @ $89.95. I'll get this AK built up whether I like it or not , I was looking around today for a hydraulic press, I'd like to have a little shop to do things like this with..Might as well start getting toys. Not to change the intent of the original post much , but has anyone successfully built up a pps43 to a working rifle (and been able to refurb a receiver or something similar?) I'm dying for one, and the kits are only about $150 and if some of the equipment I'd need to build up an AK would be the same , it'd be easier to justify the expense. |
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Yep , looked at doing the 80% lowers and am almost sure I could do it (One of the guys on this forum did it with hand tools , so I'm sure I could do it with access to a drill press). The painting of it is what bothers me, I'm quite familiar with anodizing aluminum enough to know I don't want to mess with it. I haven't checked on 80% lower prices, as the last time I checked they were around $200 compared to the last batch of lowers i bought @ $89.95. I'll get this AK built up whether I like it or not , I was looking around today for a hydraulic press, I'd like to have a little shop to do things like this with..Might as well start getting toys. Not to change the intent of the original post much , but has anyone successfully built up a pps43 to a working rifle (and been able to refurb a receiver or something similar?) I'm dying for one, and the kits are only about $150 and if some of the equipment I'd need to build up an AK would be the same , it'd be easier to justify the expense. Haven't done one of the semi 43's, but that sure would be a fun challenge. If you find good info on it, be sure to post it.
Regardless of how you finish any of this stuff, the main thing is to get ALL oils (including from your fingers) off first, otherwise, you'll have loads of troubles. You probably already know that, but I just thought I'd mention it. I've had much better luck using acetone for final degreasing than with anything else. It's easy to come by at the hardware store. If you do the 80% AR thing (or for that matter if you're re-touching a spot on any aluminum), be sure to try the Aluminum Black. Good stuff. |
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Just about forgot, if you're looking for a press, this is a nice compact one that works well:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33497 |
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Just about forgot, if you're looking for a press, this is a nice compact one that works well: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33497 Ah , thanks for that , I wasn't sure where to get that press (I've seen several AK build videos where they use that exact press). |
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No problem. They have a lot of good deals there.
Here are A couple of other places that could be useful to you on ak stuff, as well as some other things: http://www.ak-builder.com/ http://dpharms.com/ |
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A PPS43 build is more involved than an AK build in many ways.
As an open bolt sub gun, the whole action/ FCG has to be redesigned. The fixed pin bolt has to be modified to allow a floating firing pin. The bolt catch trigger has to be converted to a hammer/ disconnector type. or striker fired type. The bolt has to be milled to clear a blocking bar that goes in the receiver. Basically a bunch of precision machine work, and fabrication is in order. I have one in the works now, along with a AK or VZ conversion to 7.62x25 using pps 43 mags...I have way too many projects. |
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Continue to read everything over trying to grasp the concept...............I think my route will be going through with a NDS2 receiver (I think those will work on this bulgy74?)
Then using the bolt cutter method for the rivets (As it stands right now I have no place to put a press, and my attempts to contact a friend who is a machinist weren't successful in securing the use of one). After that, I guess i'm not sure where it puts me , I've been trying to read articles on trunion setting and such , but most mention grinding out rivets which I can't find on my specific kit. ALSO - What is the consensus on utilizing screws instead of rivets? Most of the reviews on this site talk about using rivets but I've read one article that talked about the usefulness of using screws (Which I'd be much more comfortable with) Is anyone familiar with the bulgarian kits from Copes? It almost appears the receiver has been removed from the front and rear trunnions. In addition to that , will I need to press the barrel and trunnion out? From the pictures I see It looks almost like I could fit the trunnion/barrel into the receiver , I'm really having a hard time grasping the concept of this and all, it seems there's hundreds of AK variations all with enough minor variations to cause alot of milling/filing to be done. |
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