AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/19/2008 4:42:43 PM EDT
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I took my AR to the range for the first time 4 months ago and put about 140 rounds of Remington .223 through it. Good times!
Cleaned it using Quibs bolt and carrier method along with some extra patch work down the barrel. Spotless, probably cleaner than when I bought it. Went out with my buddy to the range over the last weekend and put 20 rounds down just to adjust the sites a bit. Came home, didn't have time to clean it. Its been sitting for 5 days unclean. I pulled it apart to start working on it and it really didn't look all that bad. Should I clean it or leave it until next time? Am I being too anal or should I put it away museum clean everytime? Just wondering what all of you do. |
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I've seen some people post, that they only clean it once they reach x number of rounds... So their rifle could go months and several range trips theoretically between cleanings. Personally, I try to clean it after every range trip (because I'm shooting 400+ rounds each trip).
I would think with only shooting 20 rounds you'd be fine. It will also depend on what type of ammo it was though, as some are dirtier than others. **Normal disclaimer** as this is only my personal opinion. |
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Personally, I clean my weapons after every range session regardless of number of rounds fired.
There is a certain level of personal responsibility to owning a firearm. Along with that responsibility goes the responsibility to properly clean and maintain it. You take care of that weapon, and if you ever need it to defend your life or the life of a loved one, it’ll be there for you. Neglect it, and you may regret it. |
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Personally, I clean my weapons after every range session regardless of number of rounds fired. There is a certain level of personal responsibility to owning a firearm. Along with that responsibility goes the responsibility to properly clean and maintain it. You take care of that weapon, and if you ever need it to defend your life or the life of a loved one, it’ll be there for you. Neglect it, and you may regret it. What he said..... I also feel that cleaning my firearms after every range session gives me a chance to look over the condition of the weapon and check for any worn parts. It saves me future headaches. Plus, it's relaxing. Michael |
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Cleaning is relative to the rifle and what you want it to do...
I have had both issued and personal Colts that went over a thousand rounds without cleaning. My personal 6920 has gone about 6-8 months without cleaning and weekly range sessions. Not a big deal, apply more CLP and don't worry. There are exceptions... If it gets wet (rain, mud, ect). If it gets sandy. If I am shooting foreign surplus ammo if I need to make a modification to the weapon. Those are the times it will get cleaned. Other than that, I just hose it out with some type of lube and scrub it down, then dry and relube. No worries. Keep in mind, this is with a CL bore. I clean my precision rifle much differently and more frequently. |
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I also feel that cleaning my firearms after every range session gives me a chance to look over the condition of the weapon and check for any worn parts. It saves me future headaches. Another VERY good point. In the Army that’s called PMCS: Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services __________________________________________________________________________________ Also, a low round count shouldn’t be an excuse to NOT clean. It simply means that cleaning will be quicker and easier than verses cleaning after a high round count. ETA: I’ve said this before on this site....... I’ll just never understand the reasoning behind people who feel it’s a bragging point to claim they never clean their weapons. As if neglecting or ignoring the condition of their weapons is supposed to somehow make a person who takes care of their equipment feel inferior. As if the proper cleaning and maintaining of your equipment is over rated. Regardless of the item, personal tools, equipment or weapons, when I’m done using it I return it to it’s proper condition for storage. Take care of it. And it will take care of you. |
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You could take a weapon out and put 20 rounds through it. During those 20 rds a component begins to fail. You take the weapon home and think cleaning is unnecessary and place the weapon in your safe.
Now a week later, you need the weapon for a serious reason, your personal defense. What happens at the first trigger pull? The weapon fails. Now, had you brought the weapon home, ignored the fact that you "ONLY put 20 rds through it", cleaned, maintained and inspected it as you should, there’s a good chance you could have caught that failing part and replaced it. So many people here invest money in a quality firearm, take classes given by instructors on how to properly use their weapon, and talk a mean talk when it comes to dealing with “SHTF” scenarios. But those same people neglect the condition of their weapon. Then come on here to brag about it? 
Sorry, to me something doesn’t quite register with that mind set. 
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Cleaning is relative to the rifle and what you want it to do... I have had both issued and personal Colts that went over a thousand rounds without cleaning. My personal 6920 has gone about 6-8 months without cleaning and weekly range sessions. Not a big deal, apply more CLP and don't worry. There are exceptions... If it gets wet (rain, mud, ect). If it gets sandy. If I am shooting foreign surplus ammo if I need to make a modification to the weapon. Those are the times it will get cleaned. Other than that, I just hose it out with some type of lube and scrub it down, then dry and relube. No worries. Keep in mind, this is with a CL bore. I clean my precision rifle much differently and more frequently. Good post..Many people "in the know" will tell you( kapkirk) thatyour over cleaning.I clean every 1000 rounds.. in 30,000 rounds, it has not let me down.But it's YOUR rifle.Use good/QUALITY mags,ammo, keep your rifle WELL LUBED and it will be good to go.Read up on Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers.. these guys shoot more and KNOW waaaaaayy more about the AR-15 system then 99.99% of people on these and other boards. |
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You should treat it how you want to. I find when I clean my rifle I spend hours and hours on it because I'm a very meticulous person and I wanna get it darn clean. Because of that I tend to spread out cleaning intervals a bit. Some would tell me to clean it less more often (if that makes sense) but, if I'm gonna clean it I'm gonna REALLY clean it.
So I clean it every other time I use it, and when I'm not doing a full cleaning, I still do a real quick take down and re-lube the important parts (anything that "shines", parts mentioned in the "important lubrication points" thread stickied on this forum, etc.). I don't actually do cleaning, but I always make sure it keep it wet. If you read the really nice magazine article that Pat put up you'll see he says, out of everything, that's the most important thing to keep your rifle running, keep it wet (lubed). |
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http://www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf
Awesome article, imo. |
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Do not
concern yourself with the carbon build up on the bolt’s tail. No matter how you clean it, it will just reappear the next time you shoot it. I had an armorer once tell me that the carbon promoted corrosion. That may well be if the gun is never shot, but I have yet to see a working bolt corrode away. I love this one.. PEOPLE DONT WORRY ABOUT THE CARBON ON THE BACK OF THE BOLT. 
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Thanks for posting this Krylancelo.. (sarcasum on) Pat Rogers only sees about 500,000 (and more)Rounds a YEAR.. what does he know.
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You should treat it how you want to. I find when I clean my rifle I spend hours and hours on it because I'm a very meticulous person and I wanna get it darn clean. Because of that I tend to spread out cleaning intervals a bit. Some would tell me to clean it less more often (if that makes sense) but, if I'm gonna clean it I'm gonna REALLY clean it. So I clean it every other time I use it, and when I'm not doing a full cleaning, I still do a real quick take down and re-lube the important parts (anything that "shines", parts mentioned in the "important lubrication points" thread stickied on this forum, etc.). I don't actually do cleaning, but I always make sure it keep it wet. If you read the really nice magazine article that Pat put up you'll see he says, out of everything, that's the most important thing to keep your rifle running, keep it wet (lubed). You got it. 
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This is going to make folks cringe...but here is my cleaning method that I have been using for a while on one of my training rifles-
It gets dirty...I shoot wolf, barnaul, ect. Whatever is available... I usually try to clean it when it is so dirty that I get dirty handling it and it smears black goop all over my clothes and gear...so about every 2k rounds or 6 months. I continualy add CLP. To clean, I field stip it and hose it out with a can of liquid wrench Yes...liquid wrench. It does a great job of softening up the carbon buildup and cutting out all of the old CLP gunk. Then I brush it with a bore and chamber brush, hit the BCG with an AP brush, dry everything off, lube with CLP, and put is all back together. Takes maybe 10 minutes. I have a rifle that has been running like that for about 2 years... Not that I recomend it...but it does work for my training rifle. No ill effects as of yet. |
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My life or someone elses life may depend on the proper functioning of the weapons I carry. They are cleaned after every range session and inspected for proper function. On the rare occasion I do not shoot one of them for more than 90 days, they are inspected and re-lubed. A requirement of the environment I live and work in. A different local LE agency just had two of their ARs FTF during an OIS because they failed to do proper preventative maintenance checks, even though the cops who took them out said they "inspected" them every day.
If you THINK you MIGHT risk your life on that weapon, treat it right and maintain it properly. |
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My life or someone elses life may depend on the proper functioning of the weapons I carry. They are cleaned after every range session and inspected for proper function. On the rare occasion I do not shoot one of them for more than 90 days, they are inspected and re-lubed. A requirement of the environment I live and work in. A different local LE agency just had two of their ARs FTF during an OIS because they failed to do proper preventative maintenance checks, even though the cops who took them out said they "inspected" them every day. If you THINK you MIGHT risk your life on that weapon, treat it right and maintain it properly. I wholeheartedly agree. Good post and good example of why we perform preventative maintenance, cleaning and inspection. |
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I think the difference here is that folks are using the terms cleaning and maintenance as if they are the same thing...
While cleaning is a part of maintaining a weapon, it is only part. I know that in my case, I am religious about getting guns LTI'd and guaged by the armorer, making sure the witness marks are correctly lined up when things are mounted, checking zero at the range constantly, and changing springs before they get worn out. Cleaning is a part of my maintenance schedule...but it is only a small part. I commend you guys that clean constantly...it is always a battle for time with my gear...do I work on my armor, correct how pouches are placed, go back and dummy cord some small part that keeps falling off, apply tape to my belt to keep the holster in place, ect...vs do I clean a rifle that isn't dirty enough to cause problems...or do I go get my radio reporgramed to correct for wantering freqs...get batteries reconditioned...re-do the wiring on my vest so that my earbud quits getting pulled out when I turn my head...or I can get my vehicle packed with med gear, have it serviced, pre-stage more emergency gear in it...then there is my low pro rig that requires its own set of maintenance. All my gear is in competition for my limited time...cleaning is required but only to a point. Past a certain point, the time is better spent working on other gear IMO. Oddly enough this whole situation is why I haven't gotten another 1911. With everything in competition for my time, I don't have time to deal with a high maintenance secondary weapon... But I sure do want one. YMMV. |
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Depends on the use of the firearm.
Not every firearm is for self-defense use. Personally I clean my defensive guns after every shoot session. However my other guns may or may not get cleaned for some time after shooting. In any case I would push a well oiled patch down the bore after shooting and before putting the gun away. I would also shoot a little oil into the the chamber. Both to prevent rust in case you don't get back to it for some time. Obviously you would want to dry the chamber and bore before shooting again. |
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Excellent feedback all.
I am usually meticulous about all my firearms, but I'm just lazy/tired from holidays and work. After reading all of your posts, I'm not making any excuses to not clean after every trip. It is a machine and like any machine it needs proper maintenance AND cleaning. Best put, if my life MAY depend on it, then I better treat it as so. I am going to check those articles mentioned above for more information. Thanks for all the excellent feed back, thats why I hang here at AR15. :) 
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Obviously you would want to dry the chamber and bore before shooting again. Is it bad to have a wet chamber and barrel? I thought it was good to have them oiled? I haven't hesitated to fire a rifle with a very light oil film in the bore, and I haven't ever had problems (though I prefer to be conservative and punch with a dry patch), but excessive oil and certainly grease is supposed to be a big no-no.... essentially being a barrel obstruction. Regarding the chamber, this is from my M1A manual: "Do not oil cartridges, and be sure to wipe the chamber clean of any oil or preservative before comencing to shoot. Oil actually iterferes with the friction between cartridge case and chamber wall that is necessary for safe functioning, and subjects the firearm to stress similar to that imposed by excessive pressure." I always dry an oiled chamber before shooting. |
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If I remember the term correctly it is hydrostatic pressure. The bullet and casing are made to fit very closely in the chamber and barrel. When there is oil in the chamber it will cause an increase in pressure. When in the barrel the bullet is wider than the smallest diameter of the rifling, this causes it to deform around the lands into the grooves so it picks up the spin of the rifling. When there is oil in there the bullet is moving faster than the oil can move and the only place for it to go is out, this can cause bulging in the barrel deforming the rifling and the barrel. This may not be a big deal most of the time but if you keep on doing it I don't believe it can ever be good for the barrel. This is what we were taught in Basic and why we were instructed to always keep our chamber and bore bone dry. The chrome lining of the bore (yes I know not all bores are chrome lined) will not easily rust. If you do not shoot often it is perfectly fine to keep something in the barrel and chamber to prevent corrosion as long as you always remember to clean it out before shooting it. For a defensive weapon I think it is best to keep the bore and chamber dry and periodically clean and check it.
If anyone disagrees with me I am happy to hear your reasoning but I warn you, I'm probably going to stick with what our Drill Sergeant taught us.
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For ARs, I clean regardless of round count. Otherwise I can't go to sleep .
For M1As, M1s, M1 Carbines, etc, I do not disassemble for a full cleaning after each range session, as removing them from the stock will require re-zeroing later. I just clean all exposed areas, the bore, and the chamber. But these weapons don't get anywhere near as dirty as an AR type. -Dan |
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If anyone disagrees with me I am happy to hear your reasoning but I warn you, I'm probably going to stick with what our Drill Sergeant taught us. "..................what our Drill Sergeant taught us."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/BT.jpg Phew! I was relieved to see he was just pushin and not the flutter kicks.  Especially since this particular Infantry DS was not afraid to use his 'retard strength.'
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