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Posted: 3/13/2007 4:34:50 PM EDT
| What weight are you using? |
... anyways, I have not yet tried it on the AR yet maybe when we head back out west I might for prolonged shooting.
| I took my friends advice who is an armorer. he said Mobile 1 synthetic 15W 50. Just came out. I used it before my recient trip to the range. shot 450 rounds. Broke my gun back down. everything still has a layer of oil on it. Shot real smooth the whole time. Im happy. But to each their own |
thanks im going to give it a shot. |
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the cost of a small bottle of rem oil buys 1 qt of mobil 1....it's quantity for the same or better quality. I clean my AR with automatic transmission fluid, which also lubes it as well, and I follow up lube everything with mobil 1 5w30 oil. I know I'm protecting against rust because I do this with ALL of my tools, some of which are my grandfathers tools. You can also watch the oil get absorbed into the reciever if you rub the whole rifle down with it like I do. I dont' do anything fancy, I just use my fingers 
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I currently use German Castrol 0w-30 (2/3) and Amsoil ATF (1/3) as a mixutre, both synthetic. It seems to perform well as mild cleaner and durable lubrication. Not the most scientific CLP, but better than using diesel or gasoline to clean, and any motor oil to lubricate in the field. The AK series of rifle was designed with this type of "utilitarian" and "loving" maintenance in mind. I do like WD40 as an initial break free catalyst. It is also great for removing some types of adhesive from most surfaces, with little or no damage. For long term constant movement and heavy friction lubrication requirements though, WD40 is not always the best choice. Experience will usually clarify this reality. |
| I recently started using the Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic oil for lube and I am impressed with it so far. After returning from the range yesterday, I tried Automatic transmission fluid to clean the bolt carrier assembly and barrel. I am very impressed with how well the ATF cleaned the carrier and barrel. At this point, it is all that I am going to use. Some may laugh, but it seems to work very well. |
Just don't forget to check the air in the tires and park it outback.  Actually, I used to build engines when I was younger. In doing this, you learn pretty quickly that two metal parts rubbing together need lubrication or they will wear out abnormally soon. So, I guess I am a guy that likes his weapons to be nice and wet as opposed to running them dry like a lot of guys apparently do. |
 I have always used Break Free on every firearm I have owned, but the ATF definitely cleans better than BF and the Mobil oil stays where I put put much better and doesn't dry up. I e-mailed Armalite last week asking if they did indeed have a TSB regarding the use of ATF and Mobil 1 on the AR platform. According to them, they have received rather good reports from Afghanistan regarding the use of both as a cleaner and lube.
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BF CLP = 14 cSt @ 40C FP10 = 21.7 Corrosion X = 31.7 Corrosion X Aviation = 47.3 Typical ATF = ~33 5w30 = ~47 15W50 = ~125 As you can see, the automotive products are typically thicker than gun lubes. This is because they are designed to work at higher temperatures. ANY automotive lube will lubricate guns fine. The problem is that they are designed for a different environment than guns are. FWIW, ATF has almost no cleaning ability. It is designed to be used in a sealed unit that makes almost no debris. Engine oils have better cleaning ability, but they are designed to deal with combustion products of gasoline, not gun powder. Guns also generate much greater amounts of debris per unit of lube than engines do. |
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This is where the ATF/Mobil 1 thing comes from: October 10, 2004 Armalite,Inc. Technical Note 64, Alternate Cleaning and Lubrication Materials for Small Arms Background: ArmaLite officials conducting small arms maintenance training in an allied nation were advised that Military and Police officers often use common cooking oil as a small arms cleaner and lubricant. A 4 ounce bottle of cleaning material common in Europe or America could cost as much as a weeks income for a laborer in much of the rest of the world. ArmaLite is concerned that improper cleaners and lubricants could threaten the performance of its rifles in critical moments. ArmaLite’s staff has therefore conducted a preliminary study to identify inexpensive, effective small arms maintenance materials that are available worldwide. Findings: ArmaLite has consulted with Small Arms experts at Rock Island Arsenal and elsewhere, and has conducted preliminary evaluations of the materials they recommended: Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) as a cleaner and light lubricant. ATF performs admirably as a carbon remover, and protects steel surfaces excellently (“Have you ever seen a transmission that’s rusty inside?). Twenty weight engine oil serves in an environment that is far more strenuous than normally found in small arms so is normally quite successful. The Army authorities recommend synthetic oils such as Mobil 1. (In fact, one noted authority has used Mobil 1 as his personal firearm lubricant for over two decades. No safe copper remover formulation has yet been identified, but government tests reveal that copper removal provides no advantage in a standard military arm. It may serve a useful purpose in cleaning the bore of a rifle meant for extremely precise fire, such as a sniper rifle. Recommendations: Employ ATF as a small arms cleaning agent, and follow with 20 weight synthetic motor oil as a lubricant. Until a commonly available alternate copper solvent is identified, employ a commonly available commercial copper solvent such as Hoppe’s Number 9 on firearms intended for a high degree of accuracy. The point here was that these "alternatives" could be used in third world countries if you werent able to find proper maintence materials. They were never supposed to replace them under normal cicumstances. |
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I think a heavier weight oil would work better since (I'm guessing) it would stay in place better than a lighter weight oil. Mobil 1 makes 15 weight stuff for racing engines. That'be the best. At least I'm going to try it when my little tube of Militech runs out. As for ATF, my car is a manual. :) Dan |
| I wasn't trying to imply that the Mobil 1/ATF was intended to be a better combination than commercial CLP. I read the info from Armalite, which appears to state that the combination does work well. I have noticed that the ATF does seem to clean my bolt carrier assembly very well and the oil does not dissipate like CLP. |
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This Stuff? MSDS is showing CAS 64742-65-0 which is GrpI oil. In other words cheap. But, Grp I oils have high aromatic content (solvent) and naphthenic content (oils that can act like solvents). Here is One example on the Chevron site. This makes for a so-so auto lube, but might explain the cleaning that you are seeing. GrpI oils are often added (<10%) to synthetic oil for solvency so that other additives will not fall out of suspension. I should qualify my earlier comment about ATF cleaning power. This was a post by a Lubrication Engineer that is part owner and formulator of his company:
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Hey all, you guys are touching on a subject of which I have done a LARGE amount of research on over the last 2 years. I am the sales engineer for a company in Chicagoland and we sell a "High Precision" oil filtration machine for industrial use. It is used mainly on Hydraulic and Lubrication oils, with many, many different applications. It is used on Hydraulic presses, flushing machines, heat treating oil, plastic injection molding machines, turbine engines, air compressors, and all sorts of other machinery. One part of my job includes me researching a certain application and verifying that the filtration will work for that application. One application I worked on recently, was a transmission test stand at Honda in Ohio. These test stands run new transmissions to verify that everything is working well before the trans is shipped off to be installed in a car. They used to go through a LOT of transmission oil before we installed our filter... Anyway, ATF contains many different additives to help it operate in the normal automatic transmissions. (ATF is also used in some manual transmissions, like Ford Mustangs). It contains things like detergents (high level), anti-foaming agents, friction modifiers, etc... The concern I have about ATF in a gun would be the friction modifiers. Automatic transmissions have clutches inside that need to GRAB and hold when a gear is changed. If the oil did not have these friction modifiers, then they would have more tendency to slip that to hold. The friction modifiers act as a way to reduce the amount of lubricity of the oil. As you know, however, transmissions also have many bearings and gears which must be lubricated well, so the ATF should do a decent job at lubricating a gun. Engine oil, also contains many additives to assist in dealing with the combustion engine process. It contains high amounts of detergents and anti foaming agents. But the good news is that the detergents in engine oil are designed to attach themselves to a dirt particle, and keep it suspended so that it does not come in contact with bearing surfaces as easily, and is trapped by the filter more efficiently. I would say that this is probably a good alternative to the gun oil. Either way, I would make sure that you cleaned all of the oils out of the gun after shooting. as they can trap that dirt particle and seeing there is no oil flow and no oil filter in a gun, keep it in place over a load bearing surface. I have no idea what types of additives are in gun oil, but I would imagine that they are pretty similar to engine oil. Either way, you gotta keep 'em clean. Unless your wife likes it dirty.... 
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Better read up about ATF again. It has more detergents in it then almost all motor oils out there. If you need to clean off the tops of your pistons, put some ATF in the regular motor oil. |
I suppose you have a source/link for your information?? The quote in my last post was from a lubrication engineer that manufactured lubricants. Also, reference this Link. And how is anything in the oil going to clean piston tops??? |
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ok, I will give this a try since I am huge fan of Mobile one. But let me ask this, after you use ATF to clean do you then clean with something else before you apply the motor oil? what do you use if anything to get all the ATF off before putting the oil on? Peace Rick Repent and Live |
| What I have been doing is using the ATF to clean and then just use a dry rag to wipe everything off (this will leave the bolt carrier assembly/receiver practically dry). I then use the Mobil 1 as a lube. Don't get me wrong, I have used CLP for years and I still like it and think it is hard to beat as an all-in-one cleaner/lube. I have been trying the ATF/Mobil 1 just to see if it works well or not. |
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Anyone tried brake cleaner for cleaning? basically the same thing as gun scrubber I bought some chlorine free brake cleaner for my handgun after hearing about people using it instead of gun scrubber I'll have to give the mobile 1 a try one day. Hey, what about royal purple? Lol they say it "gives you a few extra horses" maybe it'll make my gun full auto??? |
Brake cleaner will work good . . . Having worked in automotive retail parts my entire adult life i have aquired lots of auto-related items. Being a gun enthusiast piqued my curiosity about using automotive lubricants and cleaners on firearms in an attempt at saving a few bucks on cleaning supplies. Synthetic and mineral-based oils are perfectly acceptable for firearm cleaning and maintenance. I've been using this stuff on my guns for over 12 years now Brake cleaner works great for removing grease, carbon and cosmoline Motor oil works for everything! Using motor oil for cleaning the shotgun makes it a snap! Soak the barrel for 10-15 minutes, then push a tornado and a few patches through and voila` HERE'S a link for some excellent homemade firearm cleaning recipes |
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