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Posted: 1/11/2007 7:35:57 AM EDT
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I zeroed a new build yesterday. 20 rounds Remington, 20 of my reloads (Winchester bullet). I also brought along and fired a 30 round mag of Wolf (to burn some of this dirty stuff up). Cleaning it last night, I didn't notice any additional copper fouling in the bore than usual, but when looking at the crown through the flash hider, I could see a buildup of sorts on the crown area. Careful not to actually scratch or nick the crown, I scraped a little with a pick, and it appears to be copper deposits. I can't get this crap off! And my flash hider is permanent, so no, I can't take it off to clean. Anyone else notice this with Wolf ammo? This was a perfectly clean new barrel to start with, so I can't imagine why only 30 rounds made it this bad!? Other ammo I fire doesn't seem to do this. Is the Wolf made of a cheaper copper alloy that vaporizes and coats the muzzle? How do you guys clean this off? |
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I have never encountered copper fowling on the muzzle. Only fowling I have in that area is carbon fowling and usually the solvent that drips out the barrel during cleaning softens that up so a q-tip does the trick. ETA: Try soaking the tip of your barrel in a seperate jar of Hoppes #9, then hit it with a q-tip or two. See if that gets things clean. |
Yeah, thats the idea I came up with, too. I don't have a spare jar of #9, so I am going to put a few drops in the flash hider throughout the day, and see if that eats some of it off before I have to go to work this evening. The carbon at the muzle (as you mention) cleaned right off as usual, but underneath is bright, sliverish colored copper in splotches. I just hope I didn't scratch the crown last night with that pick!  I was tired, frustrated, and mad when I went at it with the pick. I need to come up with some sort of tool to help scrub it, though....like a 3/8" dowel rod, with a piece of scotchbrite attached, or something. Man, it makes me not want to shoot that Wolf anymore!
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Drop the picks and scotchbrite! Your headed in the right direction with the wood dowel. What I use in "worst case" situations like that for carbon deposits are Ka-bob skewers. I stole a handful from the wife’s kitchen drawer! Better yet is to let the Hoppes or maybe a stronger copper solvent do the work. Let the chemical action do the work for you, not mechanical action. |
Yep that foam copper solvent works great for me. |
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Little nutcracker picks work wonders and are available in every Publix, Winn-Dixie, Wally World, etc. Also might try using some gunscrubber/brake cleaner/carbeuretor cleaner on the tip. However, I have shot Wolf and haven't experienced this problem at all. Is this left over packing material from when the gun was stored maybe? Just not sure this is true copper from Wolf because why would the barrel be stripping copper off the bullet? Wolf's cheap and polymerized, but nothing like that from my experience. Nutcracker Pick |
Thanks guys for all the help. I have made some progress on it, but there is still some left. I agree with letting the chemical action do the work instead of manual scraping. The other night at work, I stood up the rifle on the buttstock and every couple hours, I put a few drops of Hoppes BR #9 down the inside of the flash hider, so it would pool around the muzzle. It ate away most of the big bead of copper and all of the two little ones, in a twelve hour shift. I did buy some Hoppes Elite copper terminator today that I am going to try to finish it up with. I was looking for Sweet's, but only came up with the Elite. I'm gonna use it on a Qtip here in a bit and see if it will work any faster. Man, having cleaned it up so far, you can see a LOT of machine marks on the end of the muzzle (it looks like you can see circular cutoff saw marks on the muzzle). Kind of makes me not worry so much about using that pick very gently near the crown the other day....
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sorry for your problems... but my question is this. how do you know it was the wolf ammo that gave you that copper fouling? you shot 20 remington and 20 reloads...did you check the muzzle after the first 20 and again after the second 20? if it is a new build and a first time shooot.... i would have a gunsmith check the crown of the barrel for burs ( which may have already burnished off)... good luck with it. |
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I suspect the Wolf ammo is causing it, because I have never seen this buildup before firing Wolf, as with my reloads or UMC. You are right, though, if there is an issue with the barrel, it may not be the ammo's fault. I will take it out tomorrow and evaluate the muzzle after the different brands of ammo is fired. The Hoppes Elite didn't work any better the the BR #9. I guess I'll order some Sweet's for future copper buildups, and work on this muzzle the next few days with #9. 
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The copper desposit near muzzle end was discussed in this months precision shooting. It is cause by barrel break in. Copper is shaved off bullet near the chamber because of reamer marks in barrel. Reamer leaves circular ridges not longitundal. The shaved copper is in a plasma state during bullet travel. The gas expansion causes a cool down when then plates the copper out some distance from the chamber. Us JB to get it out, or some other copper remover. You will also have a carbon ring near chamber. Use carbon cutter on it. Use the JB on some oversize patch,brush,feltboob to smooth up the chamber throat area, or go to the shoot/clean/shoot/clean until it gets broke in. Then the copper fouling will stop. It is not the wolf ammo |
Interesting. Looking at the chamber/bore, I don't see any roughness, but your explanation makes sense. Oh, and what is "JB"? I got most of the copper off (very slowly) using BR #9, but I think I'll go to the range this after noon and put some more rounds down range, with some cleanings periodically. Thanks. |
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You would have to have a bore scope to see the ridges which are about $800 bucks which most of us won't shell out to see if our bore is clean. JB is a non-embedding pumice. A very fine abrasive. If You go to the Brownells site there are some techincal article that explain its use. All the benchrest shooters use it. I'm not saying Wolf is the most accurate ammo, typical is about 2.5inch at 100 yards, out of my gun which will shoot inside 1 inch with box match or home rolled quality bullets. I also don't buy line about steel cases will wear out your barrel. First thing that goes on your barrel is the throat, and you can't setback a AR barrel. So long before noticeably wear happens in your chamber that would affect accuracy or reliability the throat will be gone. How long will ar barrel last? Depends chrome line chamber and bore will last longer but won't deliver the best accuracy. Stainless seems to be most popular choice now. With people mentioning 5000 rounds before accuracy change happens. But depending on your requirements you may get 20,000 rounds before you notice accuracy drop off is significant. |
Do not buy a bore scope! If you look at the inside of your barrel with a bore scope after you are sure it is perfectly clean and shiny you will cry. The inside of the barrel will look like the damn surface of the moon. This will shatter your confidence in the barrel and affect your shooting (mentally)! Trust me, you do not want to see the inside of your barrel. Someone else's barrel sure, just not yours. It is like looking at Medusa, you are screwed.  The service rifle guys swap the barrels when they will not hold moa at 600 yards generally. The barrel is still fine for practicing back at 300 and closer. So a barrel is normally not done at 5K, it is done at 600 yards. |
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