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Posted: 12/25/2006 7:48:24 PM EDT
| I shoot my new WOA upper yesterday. Breaking in barrel. Shoot, clean, shoot, clean. I used shooters choice firearms bore cleaner. It says it removes lead, copper, powder fouling. Cleaning rifle after firing a total of forty rounds I never got anything on patches except a little black power residue. I kept looking for a blue or green patch. I followed directions on bottle to the letter. After you break in a barrel do you ever get any copper in barrel? Confused |
Relax...............copper takes a bit of time to build and takes a bit of time to remove. Try running a wet patch through the bore and waiting 10 minutes, then run a dry patch through, you might get a bit of green then. I use Hoppes copper solvent for that, but SC is really good stuff, give it time to work.
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Like i said............it takes a bit to build. You keep cleaning after every shoot, you may not ever see real blue or green. Happy Trigger pulls. EDIT: After reading your posts again you seem really concerned about copper. You will not see gobbs of copper in the barrel. It just coats the inside some, probably never even be noticable, even if you didn't clean at all. So do not fret.
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I have to wonder if chrome plating mitigates against copper buildup. I have never been able to pull a green patch out of a newish plated bore. Barrels with some mileage start to develop copper fouling; an 11.5 is now about impossible to get completely free of green - think it's had about 4k, all FA. I can't really say how many rounds have to be fired before copper starts to accumulate, but every barrel that sees FA use now shows at least some copper. One semi-only barrel that's seen maybe 700 rds still shows no copper. Shooters Choice is good stuff. So, my guess is your new WOA upper is simply not hanging on to copper............yet. Sam |
Acctually copper builds up quickly. It takes awhile to start to harm accuracy but it does build fast and should be removed every time you clean. To prove my point this is the bore on a new in the box Smith and Wesson 4006 .40 cal hand gun. This gun has only been test fired at the factory and has less then a full mag through it probibly 3 shots total. You can clearly see copper build up on the rifle grooves from only a few shots. Imagen what it will look like after a few hunderd shots have been put down the bore. Th 2nd picture is the patch used with Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner which turns blue as it cleans copper. Remember this is all just from a few jacketed rounds down the bore. This is exactly why you need to de-copper your bore every time you shoot or at least every other range trip. Rifle bores copper up even faster then hand gun bores because of the higher velocitys. 
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been using shooter choice copper remover and shooters choice no. 7 for years with no pitting or loss of accuracy in my SS M1a, rem 700 30-06, my blued Win 88, and my CL ARs. but then I actually read the instructions on use. |
| I got the info from an article written by Boots Obermeyer where he advised against using regular Shooters choice bore solvent and Sweets 7.62 in the same cleaning session because the ammonia would interact with the Shooters Choice and cause metal break down. I guess you would have to dry out the barrel well with patches before switching solvents. |
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NH4OH (or NH3 • H2O) Properties: Colorless liquid, intense, pungent, suffocating odor; acrid taste; strong alkaline reaction; dissolves copper, zinc; fumes are formed when ammonia water is brought near volatile acids; forms exothermic reaction with sulfuric acid; infinitely soluble; specific gravity 0.9 (28% NH4OH) at 25° C; pH 11.6 (1.0N solution); boiling point ca. 36°C (ca. 97F); melting point –72C (-98F); stable under ordinary conditions of use and storage.; produces low temperatures by its own evaporation. I'd like to know more on this etching effects of ammonia. What type of soultion was used? etc? |
| I was told by a respected gun smith that Sweets is safe on steel by itself. It becomes dangerous as it cleans and mixes with the fouling then it will start to etch the steel. Don't know it that is true. I may get a nice new shiny piece of steel and soakhalf of it in Sweets to see what happends. |
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One easy way to remove copper is to leave the bore coated with Hoppes #9 over night (or a week). Anyway, saturate the bore with Hoppes and leave overnight (in air tight case) then run a patch through the nex day. I guarentee that it will be very blue in color. Hoppes #9 is safe for extended periods of time in your bore. Don't know exactly how it works, but is seems to work for me. |
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Copper does build up quickly (in my rifles) I Quit messing around with weak cleaners and started using Sweets. Sweets will not harm steel if used per directions, only idiots that misuse Sweets run into trouble. This is my method (each of us has our own way of cleaning) 1) Clean bore with powder solvent using bore brush and patches (repeat as required) 2) Completely dry/ clean bore with clean dry patches 3) Swab bore with loose patch wet with Sweets copper solvent (wait 10 minutes) 4) Run dry patch down bore until clean patch's comes out 5) Nutralize Sweets solvent, and swab bore with warm water and dish soap 6) Clean bore with dry patches until clean patch comes out 7) Run patches with Hoppes #9, or gun oil, down bore several times Ready for storage - Be sure to run dry patch down bore prior to firing rifle. I usually clean with Hoppes #9, brushes and patches after each use and perform the above method quarterly, or by round count. When shooting my bolt rifles, I clean copper after each range session and it truley needs it. I usually don't copper clean my auto loaders that often due to their intended purpose (not match target rifles). Find what works for you and stick with it !! Good luck Sooner |
This HAS to be your first AR. RELAX DUDE, You fired 40 rounds through it and your worried about COPPER FOULING so soon, Being Anal Retentive about cleanliness is ok, but in this case its WAY TO MUCH way too soon. |
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Here is what Wes @ MSTN uses. I just got the cleaning system in and waiting on my SPR. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=134&t=146969
kgcoatings.com/ |
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A chrome lined chamber and bore will not copper foul quickly and needs very little break in. However stainless, and chromemoly production barrels will foul copper quickly because of bore roughness in the chamber neck area. The copper gets shaved and is in plasma state. As the gas expands it cools and deposits the copper usually between muzzle and half way down barrel. That where the shoot /clean/shoot/clean comes from. You are smoothing out the ridge lines and removing the copper fouling. Good barrels that have had been lapped and chambered carefully won't have this problem. Precision shooting magazine details this along with bore scope shots of what is happening. |
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