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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Militec 1? (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 12/25/2006 6:04:27 AM EDT
| I've been using Militec 1 as a lubricant for my handguns for years and have been very impressed by it. Is there any reason I shouldn't use it on my new RRA Entry Tactical? |
| If you use it properly, i believe it bonds to the metal and reduces friction. I think the way to do it is degrease the metal parts, apply, heat or fire to heat up, do it 3 times and it should last a while. I used it and after 3 applications went to regular clp. Works well. |
Not trying to start a shitstorm, not expecting miracles. I'm just someone who's used it for years on other firearms and wanted to know if there are any reasons not to w/ my new AR. I'm sure I'll try CLP at some point but the combination of M-Pro 7 and Militec 1 has served me well for a long time. I don't want to offend the traditionalists who use CLP exclusively, I'm just asking a question. FWIW I'm a Hoppes #9 fan as well.  Chad |
I also use it on my HandGuns with good results. CLP works very well overall as a Rust preventative and I find that if I soak parts in it for 10 minutes before cleaning with Hoppes it really helps clean as well. Personally, Militec is one of my favorite products. It really works it's way into the metal over time which eventually provides a Dry like lubrication. You need only a small ammount and it doesn't evaporate as quickly as CLP IMO when using it as a lube. Basically.....CLP/Hoppes for cleaning and CLP gets rubbed onto all metal surfaces for protection against the elements. I like Militec on the Bolt, Cam Pin, Carrier, and Gas rings. |
| I use Militec-1 on all my pistols, rifles and shotguns. No it's not magic due to word is it's not a good rust inhibator, I second that motion. I use Militec-1 on the insides, and CLP for the rust protection outside. Since this is a AR-15 board I will say I use it for the bolt assembly group and insides of upper/lower group. No problems and no complaints. It works as advertised. Were lucky to have so many choices of quality lube/protection/cleaning solutions on the market. Whatever you choose that works to your satisfaction is a great thing! |
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I clean with MPRO-7 too. Excellent stuff. Militec has some less than favorable political history. I don't buy that molecular level bonding BS. This got an oil company in a huge lawsuit about claims such as those. Google Slick 50. If you want a bonding dry lube, then get a product that really does that. Dupont Krytox is a good one. True bonding lubes usually require oven curing. Sailkote doesn't, and I am just starting to do some testing with it. |
The many tests that have been done on the lube. Most can be read here. The whole "you have to bake your firearm to get the most out of Militec" is marketing BS. What Solider has access to an oven or hair drier in the field? It also has less rust protection in it then a glass of salt water. This has been proven over and over and condriticts what the manufacture says.....they are compleet liars about their product. |
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I have used the stuff for a long time now. I love it, good stuff. Never baked with it, and have had ZERO rust issues. Also, never had any lube issues either. I will say, anyone who says a quality lube is junk or is the best, needs not to be taken serious. There are so many good lubes, and few sh*tty ones. I have always believed that a single purpose product will do a better job than an all-in-one product. For example, take a look at tires. Performance tires perform better than all season tires. Snow tires do better in the snow than all season tires. So, I buy the product that works best for one duty. If I had to carry everything with me, then I would compromise with an all-in-one (CLP). Thank God I don't, and thank God for those who do. |
No offense, but I think I'll stick with my years of experience using it over your overwhelming empirical evidence against. I've put over 10k rounds downrange out of various handguns over the last few years, all lubed w/ Militec 1. Not a single issue. But thanks for the valuable contribution. |
Gregory, Thank you for posting some links to actual tests instead of just spouting off. I guess I should mention that I use Militec 1 ONLY as a lubricant, I don't expect it to provide anti-corrosive capabilities. I'm not saying it's better than CLP, as I stated I've never tried CLP, only that I like it as a lubricant. I store my firearms in a safe w/ a goldenrod in a low humidity basement. I've never had an issue w/ rust, even with guns that have been in storage for a year or more. Hence, I've never had a reason to look into the anti-corrosive abilities of any compound. |
I was not spouting off and said you can read many of the tests right on here. Do a search for "lube tests" "Rust tests" or "oil tests". I have done the research and know that Militec is crap. You must even have doubts about it or you would not have came here to ask it it was good enough for your RRA. Mil-Comm, FP-10, Slip 2000, Tetra to name a few are all better lubes in every way. |
In the actual instructions it says that it can be heated by shooting it. I used a hair dryer and a couple mag dumps and it seems good as gold. Just my unprofessional .02. |
No, Militec isn't crap. I doubt any knowledgeable authority would proclaim it crap. I don't have doubts about it, I was merely double checking since I'm new to the AR. I'm no armchair expert, I double and sometimes triple check things. I've tried Tetra in the past, it worked fine but not noticeably better than Militec 1 so I stuck with what I was used to. I'm done trying to explain myself to you, frankly I don't know why I'm bothering to try and have a rational conversation with you since you're obviously not open to it. I encourage you to stick with the products you've tried and tested, as will I. Good day. |
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Since rust prevention isn't an issue for you, use it all you want. I used to use it and liked it except for it's complete and total inability to prevent rust from forming in the bore of my USP. Their marketing hype is total bullshit though. They claim rust protection for two years. Two minutes maybe. And the crap about how some weapons were bursting under fire in Desert Strom just reeks. |
That is right. It has also done extreemly poor in the 4 ball wear test and that is another reason it is garbage when it comes to lubing. You are better of lubing your firearms with water then Militec. Militec is probibly the only lube I will strongly reccomend people to avoid. |
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archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=272590&page=1 "metal conditioner"? Sounds like the snake oil the kids at 5 minute oil change places are always trying to "upsell" you. edit-They claim it increases muzzle velocity and accuracy? 
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I can see this is a rather polarizing topic here @ ARFCOM. The last thing I'm going to point out is that pretty much every lubricant on the market, including the ones mentioned here, makes the same kind of claims. These are all from the manufacturer's websites as of this morning. Tetra Gun "Bore conditioning for increased velocity" FP10 "This improves bore accuracies due to FP-10's unique metal-treating capabilities and the reduced coefficients of friction between the bullet surface and rifling lands of the barrel. This results in more linear bullet velocities and a more even distribution of chamber pressure during ignition and bullet flight within the bore. Improved accuracy is expressed in better average velocities, extreme spreads, standard deviations and bullet groupings." Slip2000 " It penetrates the micropores of the metal surfaces bonding itself to the metal allowing lubrication from within the metal itself. " "Automatic and rapid firearm users will see Increased Muzzle velocity" I don't claim Militec is the greatest lubricant ever, just that it's worked well for me in the past. FWIW, I couldn't care less what claims Militec makes about its product, I just care whether it works for my intended purpose. I also don't hate on other products for making the same wild claims that Militec does, it's marketing folks. |
A company rep from the company that makes FP10 has been on here saying it was a metal conditioner. It's just already mixed with an oil. Same for the original FP10 and the stuff that is sold by Kleene Bore (as that's sold to them by the maker with no changes). I do hate on a product when it completely fails it's claims. If it states that it will prevent rust, then it should damn well prevent rust. There is a difference between marketing hype, and pure bullshit. Militiecs claim of 2 years of rust prevention is bull, unless they are meaning storage in a room with a dehumidifier located in Dath Valley. |
What is a 'linear' bullet velocity? 
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I've never sprayed my weapons with salt water to see which one rusts first, however I do live in a fairly humid stste with lots of weather. My XD has been treated solely with mlitec since I've owned it and it has never rusted. With that being said I don't use it as a rust inhibitor I've already said that there are much better products for that. Militec is a pretty good lube that will not dry as quickly as CLP while firing in my experience and after using it in the same areas overtime it seems to create a pretty good "bonding" or dry lube type effect (although I would still lube). Thats it nothing else....no extra accuracy, no golden eggs, no supper duper uber pooper. Its just a oil. |
| I used Militec for MANY years but did try a different brand not too long ago. In fact, due to a "business conflict" that arose between that company's owner and I (had absolutley nothing to do with his oil, rather something he was trying to buy from my company) I tried several different "wet" oils these past few years. That said, I've now gone back to Militec. Squabbles aside, the oil works better for me than the others I've tried and that's what I want, the best for my firearms. I still, and always will, use Eezox for corrosion protection and for spraying into tight spots, internals, etc. Finally, I've always heard that Militec won't help much with corrosion resistance, but I must say that I've never had anything rust when coated with ONLY Militec. |
good for lube, terrible if you want to prevent rust. I clean with Hoppes/mineral water. Wipe it down with CLP. lube the rails with Rigs or Miltec. I have a SS TLEII that I made the mistake of wiping down with militec (no CLP) only to find rust under the grips, in and around the hammer cup of the beavertail, and just under the thumb safety after about a week. |
Good question. I'd ask the same about your beloved Slip 2000. To quote them: "It penetrates the micropores of the metal surfaces bonding itself to the metal allowing lubrication from within the metal itself." If it's absurd for other lubes to claim it then it's absurd for them to claim it too. You conveniently ignored my previous post about this. |
Militec is a Chlorinated Alpha Olefin (similar to a Paraffin) Extreme Pressure lubricant. It forms a Chlorinated film on the metal surface by reacting with the base metal under heat & pressure. I believe that it does contain epoxidized soy bean oil which acts as a Chlorine scavenger to reduce the chances of creating HCl and rusting the base metal. It was developed, however, as an additive to be put into other oils which is evidenced by the fact that there is only 1 MSDS, and that there is no differentiation between the gun product and the additive. This is also why it is so poor at corrosion protection...it doesn't have an anti-corrosion package (for the base metal) because the base oil is supposed to. Because it was designed to be diluted in other base stock, the Chlorine levels are quite high. This is were it causing rust becomes a problem, especially if it gets wet. It is one of the few products that I would absolutely not use on my guns. It is also way overpriced. I have never understood when people say that "I use product X for lube but not for rust protection." ALL metal needs rust protection to protect it from the oxygen in the air, air-born water, body acids, etc. If the product one is using does not contain rust inhibitors, one is inviting rust. |
I don't think anyone means that they are not using Rust Protection. Just that they use one for Lube and another for Rust. Technically if you are right, by coating with a light coat of CLP and adding militec on certain areas you would be using it as an additive. |
I can see this happening while fresh oil is on the steel. Some oils can bond better to steel then others. What I was asking is how does the oil build up over time and form a bond to the steel or "dry lube type effect"? If the gun is cleaned then all oil would be removed having no chance to "build up" and if it is not cleaned and you keep adding oil you are just making a sludgy mess in the gun. Slip2000 is a good oil and has been extensively tested at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds by the military. Testing is on going. That alone is much more backing to the credibility of their oil then anything Militec has offered. Slip is simply a better oil in every aspect then Militec. FP-10 and Mil-Comm are a couple more that walk the walk and not just talk it. Try them and I bet you will be plesently supprised! |
| I don't know. It's just my experience that after cleaning any metal that has been treated many times the metal still feels very smooth and sllick. Dry but still slick. I imagine it could be the parts wearing smoother or something. I'm not a chemist. With the way some folks talk about this stuff I feel like tthe luckiest SOB in the world as I've never had any problems. I'd very much like to try the Slip line though. |
If you want to take the time to add it to your CLP in a ~5-10% ratio (per the Militec vehicles page), go for it. Or you could just buy FP-10 and have a superior, premade product that will do the same thing.
The metal will get smoother as the Chlor compounds react with the metal to smooth the surface, but I doubt that you could feel it. The Chlor film is ~ 3 MICRONS thick, which is ~0.00011".
Neither am I. I've just been doing a LOT of reading.
I have to agree that this statement is BS. I don't know exactly what is in Slip (because their MSDS sucks), but I'm guessing that it is an ester based product. Esters are synthetic oils that are polar and stick to metal like a magnet. Most are also biodegradable like Slip is claiming. You don't need oil "within the metal", you need it to form a film on top to prevent the other piece from coming in contact. ALL oil will get into the asperities ("pores") of clean metal because the molecules are so much smaller than the asperities. |
Good stuff as usuall! 
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Well if the militec was reacting with the surface and smoothing it you would be feeling a smoother metal surface NOT the Chlor Film itself. I'm not measuring my militec to CLP ratio 1/5 or whatever I just use both. I will continue to do so until I run out. I have no problem trying new oils. To tell you the truth I've been thinking of trying Mobile 1. Alot cheaper! and will continue to use the Protective stuff for rust protection. |
Ordinary wear will make a surface feel smoother regardless of the lube used. This is why old guns feel smoother than new guns. The microscopic asperities ("peaks") eventually wear each other down like sand paper to a smoother surface. This generates particles and and can change tolerances with scuffing ("cold welding"). This is not that big of a deal in firearms as they are loose anyway, are open, and don't generate that much pressure to cause scuffing. Bearings, engines and other closed systems are a different matter. "Metal conditioners" do this is a faster and more controlled way and get the benefit of the EP Chlor, Sulpher, Phos film that is generated. The film is 3 Microns because that is the amount of base metal the chemical will react with, and help to reduce further wear. If the asperities are much bigger than that, particles are generated (from my understanding). The smoothed surface also increases the film strength of the base oil because there are no tall spikes to stick up and hit the other metal. I think a good motor oil should work fine for lubrication. My problem with it is that it is lacking in the anti-corrosion department for "open system" machines like guns because it is designed to be used in a closed system like an engine with ~ 5 quarts to back it up. It also has other additives designed especially for engines that are not needed for guns. For a range gun it should be fine, for a "working" gun, I wouldn't use it. |
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Alright, here's my take on the Militec: I am a Marine who has spent the majority of the year living with the Iraqi Army in Ramadi with a move, and subsequent summer vacation, living in downtown Fallujah. I an intelligence advisor for an Iraqi battalion. (just wanted to establish that I was not what we call "a FOBlin", sitting in a firm base somewhere. We were given samples of Militec to try out before we left. I used it in place of CLP in Ramadi; after the weapon had been fired a few times (worked fine) I just wiped it dry, and put the occasional drop of it down in the carrier key. Out of twelve of us, engaged in intermittent firefights over the spring and summer, none of our M4s malfunctioned, and we just kept them wiped down with an almost imperceptable film of the stuff. CLP was used to clean the bore and chamber. (then scrupulously dried) The bolt carrier assembly seemed to develop a "glaze" on it, eventually. The Iraq soldiers (jundi) fired their weapons a lot more; with bursts of 7.62x54 being fired over my shoulder on one occasion, more than a few rounds of 5.56 were usually not needed at one time, however. Larger weapons, like the M240G and Iraqi PKCs didn't seem to care whether they were lubed with CLP. motor oil, Militec, or bear snot...they worked anyway... So....I think Militec is beneficial in a desert environment, when a weapon needs to be operated fairly dry; it helped me out a lot. In anything other than a desert environment, CLP is just fine. The weapons in my safe are lubed with the old-style teflon CLP, as long as I can get it.....and the Militec treatment I played with doesn't seem to have much use stateside. Anyone have any thoughts on LSA oil? I use it on the 1911........ |
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Is there any issue with rust prevention when Militec is applied per instructions (clean base metal, apply Militec liverally, heta for 20 minutes or so, then wipe off) followed by your standard lube, e.g., SLIP 2000, TW-25B, FP-10? If any of these lubes cook off, do the treated Miltec parts still have some residual lube from just the "conditioner"? Does applying Militec first reduce the capabilities of the 2nd lube, i.e., does it interefere with the other lube bonding to the base metal? |
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If your using SLIP 2000, TW-25B, FP-10 there is no need for miltec. Fp-10 already has it's form of miltec added in. Tw-25b is a heavy teflon based lube. Slip 2000, no idea. I would only add miltec to an oil like Type F transmission fuild in a 10-15% mixing amount. But if it makes you feel good to add it first then cover it up go ahead your not going harm anything but your pocketbook. |
+1
Yes. The Chlor film will stick to the metal and provide protection (mostly on ferrous parts). This is why Militec claims it is a "dry" lubricant, BUT it is still metal on metal contact with high friction. The film will not last forever though, and having an oil film between the moving parts is still better, and provides lower friction.
+1. As Gregory K stated, FP10 already has a Chlorinated EP additive similar to Militec. Adding Militec to FP10 is bad idea as the Chlorine content will be too high. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Militec 1? (Page 1 of 3)
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