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Posted: 4/12/2005 10:45:24 PM EDT
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to their gun from TEFLON oils like Breakfree, Tetra and TW25B? I keep hearing that if you use it in your barrels when it heats up it turns to acid at 400+ degreese or so and will pit the bore. I have shot with teflon(Breakfree and TW25B oil) in my barrels before and haven't seen any damage myself. Is there any truth to this or is this a myth? |
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Before I was "educated" I shot all my guns with a heavy coat of oil in the barrel. I never had a problem and to this day all my guns are accurate. I now know better now and dry patch the bore before I shoot. When I think back to this I wonder if it is false also that you can buldge the barrel from having to much oil in it on the first shot....I never saw this to be true. I hear that oils with teflon will turn to acid in the bore while shooting. I can't find any proof of this and it is ticking me off!!!! I just want to know the truth!!!!!! I have shot my guns with lots of teflon fortified oil in the bore and after years of doing this my bores are still like a mirror inside! I'm finding this to be false also but I still don't feel 100% safe using teflon oils. This myth of teflon turning to acid had to start someware so I'm leary till I find the truth. I may never find the truth on the net, to many inconsistancys to know what is the thuth and hard fact! Maybe I have just been lucky!?!?!? |
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I used Break Free with its teflon in my bores for almost 15 years.Even in the days that it contained a chlorinated solvent which is a much larger concern really.And since have used the Mil-comm MC-2500 oil as well in the same weapons with its even higher PTFE content. I have yet to see any PTFE acid induced damage,the mystical accuracy issue or the PTFE gumming or clumping up in parts that is said to happen. Like Ive said before Im neither pro or con PTFE.I do see some of the points made by the anti PTFE folks,but I also think its an over blown topic.If it was a problem I think we would have seen evidence of such long before now. The only barrel damage I have had in my 25 years of shooting is due to normal wear from firing.Ive shot the leade out of two barrels.Not ruined mind you just beyond the accuracy I needed of the barrel with medium and magnum calibers.The 7mm mag seems to shoot out at about 2000 rounds by the way. Like I said Ive never seen an issue one way or the other with PTFE.Im not concerned one bit about the PTFE's acid formation. And if we are talking chromed lined barrels like in the AR the topic is even of less interest. I talked with Don Yoder at Break Free in length about this back about five years ago in my benchrest days.He assured me that what is being said on the topis is well over blown.Its not an issue with the mil-spec. He said that the PTFE actually burns at 1% per hour at 900F.His recommendation was to keep the weapon below that temp for sustained operation.Which is a given really since stuff would be melting off the weapon. Mr.Yoder said that the inhibitors used in the formula remains even is the oil component is burned away which will prevent and acid induced damage or corrosion in either case. Mil-comm recommends to keep the weapon operational temp below 600F for extended periods.And is the maximum operational temp of the Mil-comm if my memory serves me correctly.The Mil-comm also uses inhibitors in the mix. But if the lube fails due to heat it fails its function regardless and needs to be replaced with a fresh application.And that goes for any lubricant. |
You CAN bulge your barrel shooting with too much oil (water or any other liquid as well) in the bore. Ask any gunsmith how many times they have seen guns damaged like this in their shops. |
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Forgot to reply to the first portion of your post. Yeap anything than the thin film that remains after dry patching the bore is too much to fire with. What I do is wet a patch with oil and run it through the bore several times and then run a single dry patch through the bore too remove excess and prevent migration.This is my storage condition. For a carry gun or one I plan to use shortly I dry patch well.This leaves some oil on the metal that will protect as you cant get it all out without a solvent. You also need to make sure that the chamber is dry and any excess oil is removed.I have heard of set back to bolts due to the cartridge slip from lube in the chamber.Cartridge peens against the bolt face. |
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Another funny thing about shooting with to much liquid in the barrel is I have a friend I grew up with who is now in SEAL Team 5. He told me about some of the training they do under water. They come up fast and fire right away when the gun is full of water. He said they NEVER have any damage guns from that in the 3 years he has been in the team. That is why I question damaged barrels from to much oil, water, whatever. I'm sure it happens but is extreemly rare and I bet the barrel has flaws in the steel that cause it to bulge and not the liquid by itself. |
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Well the buddy who is on SEAL team 5 is using an issue weapon and not one he is paying a pretty good chunk of change for.Im not trying sound like an ass either. Thats something Ive never even pondered.Liquid does not compress so it acts as a solid in that situation.I wonder what effect it has on the gas tube.I do not want to do it anyway.I love my AR's too much. Firing with water in the bore will ring a barrel.Maybe thats why I have heard of M4's bulging barrels at the 203 cut. |
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I wonder if thay have some modification to allow to fire when full of water? He did say that the guns are moddified to fire under water and IIRC use a fluted fireing pin to help aid that. I got a little crazy once and fired my SIG 229 and Springfield XD under water once several time. The guns would fire and cycle 2 to 3 times and then would not fire. The hammer would fall but the guns would not fire. Now that time the barrels were 100% full of water and did not get damaged. Why? I'm now older and wised and would NEVER EVER even think of doing that to any of my guns now a days!!! |
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Skag, Your Buddy with the "Boat People" (Jarhead slang for decent Sailors) might not be risking his personally purchased weapon, but he is betting his life on the thing and training to accomodate the realitys of warfare under the circumstances that can be expected by he and his team mates. The Metalurgy,engineering and attention to the weapons used, will allow for this at the far right end of the bell curve, with some risk involved. On our end as fat,dumb, and happy, civillians, there is no need to stress things unnecesarily. Light coat of protectant in the bore will do just as well as a heavy coat, and will avoid the issue of a hydraulic bulge or worse. As for damage from the Teflon..... No. And yes, My guys and myself get the barrels above 400 degrees quite often, and yes.... I do have a bore scoope that is used regularly. If the problem were real, our Military would be having huge problems that were documented long ago. I understand that in theory, it COULD be a potential problem to consider. But in the real world of heavy use and abuse, it has not proven to be a factor. At least to my knowledge, and from what I have seen. S-28 |
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S-28 I'll give him some crap when I talk to him next, He hates being called a "sea-men"  I'll try "Boat people" next!Tetra is loaded with Teflon and they reccomend that you coat the bore with it and you will have an increase of velocity. If Tetra oil causes acid from the PTFE when the barrel heats up it would corrode. I'd think the people at Tetra would know this and address it if it were a problem. This would apply to BreakFree and Mil-Comm TW25B also. It's good to know you have never seen any acid problem and the military still uses Breakfree and they obviously have no problem. |
 , that may be true for larger bor weapons, or open bolt weapons, which will pretty much drain themselves. 5.56 has a tendency not to due to the small diameter of the barrel, surface tension, and the inability of air to get in to the barrel keep it from draining. That's why if you think you've got water in the barrel, you pull the bolt back, and point the barrel down...............Too much oil in a barrel could be bad news, but it would have to be a good amount of oil, like dripping out the muzzle. Oil in the barrel will also make your initial shots less consistent, until all the oil is blown out of the barrel due to the pressure of firing the weapon. |
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