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Posted: 5/31/2003 6:56:08 PM EDT
| I have heard that one can use break cleaner for cleaning rifles in a quick, half assed way. Is this safe? I don't think I could ever put that stuff in my gun. Is it only for bore cleaning, or for the entire upper also? Thanks in advance! |
| I have used it for years and it does a great job at a fraction of the cost of Gun Scrubber. Understand though that it strips all oil off so that must be replaced and it will destroy most wooden stock finishes, paint and many plastic parts (got a Marlin 60 with a permanent fingerprint in the trigger guard). |
| I was in BJ's Wholesale Club today and noticed that they have a case (12 nineteen oz. cans)of brake cleaner for $11.99. There is a warning on the can that advises you not to use it on plastic or rubber. I have heard many times that Brake Cleaner and Gun Scrubber are chemically identical. So I am tempted to pick up a case. But I don't want to find out the hard way that they are not the same. |
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I've been using it since I got my first AR. If you're gonna use it get the non chlorinated version. Not sure what the chlorine would do to your rifle, but the gunsmith who recommended it to me told me to get the non chlorinated type. As Hoppy said it takes all oil off the metal. I actually like that however, just be sure to reapply. It'll will help if you take it to the range and use it in the bore and chamber while the barrel is still warm. Makes for an easy clean up when you get home. Shabo |
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Quoted: Does anyone know if this stuff will strip the teflon buildup, from CLP, off? Sounds like it might be worthwhile It's very worthwhile if you use Gunscrubber. It will remove teflon residue from CLP, as well as anything else but metal. Get the cheapest non-chlorinated stuff you can find. -hanko |
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Quoted: Sounds like it might be worthwhile It's very worthwhile if you use Gunscrubber. It will remove teflon residue from CLP, as well as anything else but metal. Get the cheapest non-chlorinated stuff you can find. -hanko Stocked up with a couple of cans today. Non-chlorinated, $1.63 a can to Wal-Mart. Between guns, Harleys and fourwheelers this stuff has a hundred uses around my house. Hoppy |
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Gun Scrubber an Brake Cleaner are not the same chemcial, while both work to remove grease and dirt, they are totally different chemicals now days (years ago the brake cleaners were different). Lastest MSDS Sheet form Birch Wood Casey lists Gun Scrubber as being Trichloroethane, which is not flammable and thus does one does not have a fire hazard (you may damage you liver breathing the fumes and/or getting on your skin, but that is a different discussion). [url]http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/msds.asp[/url] The non-chlorinated brake cleaners are a mix of solvents, often with acetone (which burns very easly), thus when using brake cleaner do it out side, or at the very least next to an open door (i.e. handel like it was gasoline and you should be safe ....) MSDS for brake cleaner [url]http://www.berrymanproducts.com/msds/2401-2405-2416-2455.pdf[/url] A good starter guid to solvents (in this case for camera cleaning) is contained in the following link (you have to scroll down the part on sovlents) [url]http://www.exaktaphile.com/vx2ar/chem.html[/url] Note the Prestone brand is listed in the above as being xylene and acetone , which does burn Myself, in the summer I like to use mineral sprits with ATF and then rinse with Brake cleaner when done. For winter cleaning like to use Mpro 7 (cost more ... so use the solvents in the summer ;-) |
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Just stopped by the auto parts store to check (plus needed some window washer solvent ;-). A lot of the spray break cleaners on the shelf are now flamable (also noted many do not list the contents with out going to a web site etc.). Appreciate any recommendations for a brand of brake cleaners that is not flamable and trichloroethane (in the old days nearly all the brake cleaners and gun scruber products were the same trichloroethane or "better" solvents). In connection with using brake cleaner for cleaning vs. Hoppies #9 or mineral sprits with ATF. The spray brake cleaner (or gun scruber) work great for degreasing and flushing the firearm, however, the spray products evaporate very fast and thus make it hard to keep the surface wet while you brush any dirt (i.e. carbon layers in barrel). Addtionally I like some type of wetting/detergent (which the ATF helps supply along with a thin layer of oil) to help remove the carbon / powder residue from the bore. Have been using mineral sprits / ATF mix (1 to 10 or 1 to 16) for cleaning after a major shoot, in particular 1919A4 (which gets cleaned n a 5 gallon bucket ;-). For the really dirty parts (excluding the booster which I clean with a wire brush and carb cleaner) I typically start out with MPro7 or Hoppies #9 (also been trying out Simple Green in the ultrasonice followed by a warm water rinse and bake and/or alchol rinse. |
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Quoted: I typically start out with MPro7 or Hoppies #9 (also been trying out Simple Green in the ultrasonice followed by a warm water rinse and bake and/or alchol rinse. Just to clarify, you're not using Simple Green to clean anodized aluminum, right? As I recall, the U.S. Army forbids the use of Simple Green for cleaning any anodized aluminum firearm as the Simple Green will remove the anodized coating... Simple Green + AR's = Bad... [;)] |
| CRC Break-Kleen uses Tricholoroethane and costs me $2.99 at the auto parts store. Guns Scrubber sells for about $8 at Wal-mart and $10 at the Gun Shop. Brake-Kleen also sells a product called Electra-Kleen for cleaning motors and electrical contacts. It sells for $3.99 has the same chemical as there $2.99 Brake Cleaner. It is even the same can - just a different lable. The non-chlorinated break cleaners uses acetone or xyelene or MEK all very flammable stuff. |
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Simple green removes anodized aluminium......and ar's are made by remco....This is a product marketed for cars and trucks and boats....lots of aluminium anodized and not....... In an effort to further clarify for those of you who own 'Remco' AR's... [url]www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/engine_cleaning.html[/url] ...the liquid "does an admirable job for a fraction of the cost of the aviation cleaners." While that may be true as far as it goes, both the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Army have conducted tests of Simple Green and strongly urge that it not be used to clean aluminum structures. In one test conducted by the U.S. Air Force, results from which were published in 1989, aluminum alloy samples were immersed in Simple Green for a week then removed, cleaned and weighed. The results indicated that the approximately 3.5-gram aluminum alloy samples experienced a material loss of about 31 milligrams in a diluted solution and a whopping 295 milligram loss after spending a week in the undiluted liquid. The Air Force report summed it up this way: "We do not recommend the use of this product on Air Force equipment containing aluminum." [url]safety.army.mil/pages/lessonslearned/simplegreens.html[/url] It has been brought to the attention of the AMCOM Depot Maintenance Engineering Team that numerous units are using the commercial product SIMPLE GREEN as an aircraft wash. STOP! This product has been through DoD testing and was determined to be highly corrosive on aircraft aluminum. It can also be a catalyst for hydrogen embrittlement in high strength aircraft alloys. While the discussion regards aircraft grade aluminum, I think the point is taken that Simple Green isn't for aluminum... Just because the manufacturer markets Simple Green as an aluminum cleaner doesn't make it so... edited for link... |
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Quoted: CRC Break-Kleen uses Tricholoroethane and costs me $2.99 at the auto parts store. Guns Scrubber sells for about $8 at Wal-mart and $10 at the Gun Shop. *snip* I just ran up to PepBoys and bought some of this CRC Brakleen, it's not the same as Gun Scrubber. The Brakleen is Tetrachioroethylene and Gun Scrubber is Trichloroethylene. What the difference is between these two products I don't have a clue. They both say non-flammable. Maybe some of you who know chemicals can fill us in. |
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Correct, not using Simple Green on aluminum (in particular high dollar aluminum), friend works on airplanes and has a nice sample showing what Simple Green trapped in a joint does (not good). As a side note, the same friend and local subgun match shooter pointed out as the receiver prices go up, the per ounce price of aluminum must be getting close to that of gold The difference between Tetrachioroethylene and Trichloroethylene is of course a fourth chlorine atom (not that that helps much [:)] Tetrachioroethylene is a little "heavier", has a higher boiling point and does not evaporate as fast as Trichloroethylene. [b]Tetrachloroethylene[/b] [url]http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/tetrachloroethylene/basic_tetra.html[/url] [url]http://ntp-support.niehs.nih.gov/NTP_Reports/NTP_Chem_HS_HTML/NTP_Chem1/Radian127-18-4.html[/url] Chemical Formula C2Cl4 Boiling point: 121ºC Melting point: -19ºC Vapor Pressure: 14 mm (at 20ºC) Specific Gravity:1.620 [b]Trichloroethylene[/b] [url]http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/trichloroethylene/working_trichloro.html[/url] [url]http://www.camd.lsu.edu/msds/t/trichloroethylene.htm#Physical[/url] Chemical Formula C2HCl3 Boiling point: 86.7ºC Melting point: -84.8ºC Vapor Pressure: 61 mm (at 20ºC) Specific Gravity: 1.463 |
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Quoted: CRC Break-Kleen uses Tricholoroethane and costs me $2.99 at the auto parts store. Guns Scrubber sells for about $8 at Wal-mart and $10 at the Gun Shop. Brake-Kleen also sells a product called Electra-Kleen for cleaning motors and electrical contacts. It sells for $3.99 has the same chemical as there $2.99 Brake Cleaner. It is even the same can - just a different lable. The non-chlorinated break cleaners uses acetone or xyelene or MEK all very flammable stuff. |
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Quoted: Quoted: CRC Break-Kleen uses Tricholoroethane and costs me $2.99 at the auto parts store. Guns Scrubber sells for about $8 at Wal-mart and $10 at the Gun Shop. *snip* I just ran up to PepBoys and bought some of this CRC Brakleen, it's not the same as Gun Scrubber. The Brakleen is Tetrachioroethylene and Gun Scrubber is Trichloroethylene. What the difference is between these two products I don't have a clue. They both say non-flammable. Maybe some of you who know chemicals can fill us in. |
| Ok the government says simple green is bad when they left aluminium in it for a week and one of your buddies left cleaner residue stuck somewhere and it ate a hole in his wing...I use it in the sink with lots of water. I will try the other things but it is the only thing I have found that will clean my rifle well and quickly. |
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Agree Simple Green has everthing else going for it, cost / easy to find / no danger of fire / cleans well. Have you tried MPro 7 yet for cleaning? [url]http://www.mp7.com/Nknowledge.htm[/url] Have a gallon of MPro 7, however, for the price still thinking on if I want to dump it all into the ultrasonce cleaner. Thus also looking at the L&R Prducts for the ultrasonic. [url]http://www.lrultrasonics.com/industries/weapons/solutions.html[/url] My concern with Simple Green and possible all water based high ph cleaners, is when some becomes trapped in a joint (i.e. the threads in the M16 receiver where the buffer tube threads in) and the aluminum corrodes. If you only use the product a limited time to clean and can get all to material off, then no where near the issue. Break Free makes a water based cleaner CD-L640. by Break Free). [url]http://www.break-free.com/products/products_cleanerdegreaser.asp?catalog=law[/url] Their e-mail reply on using the product to clean aluminum based firearms in an ultrasonic cleaner was: [b]Our Cleaner Degreaser is on the Alkaline side with a relative high Ph. It is quite safe on Aluminum and Magnesium when the Concentrate is diluted down and the parts are thoroughly rinsed after cleaning. A good place to start would be 10 parts water to 1 part Cleaner Degreaser. You can dilute it farther but at 10:1 it should do fine. Ultrasonics will heat the bath and warm is fine but hot is not where Aluminum and Magnesium are concerned. At a 10:1 ratio you should have no problem. Just remember to rinse well after the cleaning cycle. We also have a Solvent based Citrus Cleaner that has done well in Ultrasonic Bath's. In either case you can use an air gun to dry the parts. The Break-Free CLP will do the rest.[/b] |
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Quoted: The difference between Tetrachioroethylene and Trichloroethylene is of course a fourth chlorine atom (not that that helps much [:)] Tetrachioroethylene is a little "heavier", has a higher boiling point and does not evaporate as fast as Trichloroethylene. So how safe is the Tetrachioroethylene compared to the Trichloroethylene? Any issues using it? Treat it just like the gun scrubber? |
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A quick check shows the OSHA limits for both are a nomional 100 ppm for both (depending on length of time etc.). Thus neither one should get on you skin nor should you breath the vapor ... both of which in my younger days I might have been a little careless with ... now days I clean with a good set of gloves on ... at least does not leave finger prints on the gun ;-). Thus if one is not using a water base cleaner, you really need to vent well, either for fire or personel health reasons. Which is one of the reasons went with MPro7 for the winter cleaning. Regards John |
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Twenty years ago use to use a lot of kerosene cleaning truck parts, however, nowdays being married "I like" the low odor mineral spirts for cleaning in the warm weather. At times like to have a little (< 10%) ATF in the mineral sprits to leave an oil coating when done and appears to improve the cleaning effects. The various spray cleaners besides leaving everything bone dry, are good to spray out the cracks and blow away the loose dirt. At work to clean the insides of electronic components we use an air brush with solvents (have though about similar for home). ====== Just got back from Wally World (typicaly do not shop there but was down to last can of Break Free and have been running the ultrasonic cleaner all afternoon ...). Picked up a few cans of "Rusty Duck" degreaser for $3.97 a can, while cost more than twice what break clean goes for, is all Trichloroethylene and less than half the cost of name brand gun cleaner. Regards John |
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In my Bennie Coolie Curriculum carbine class (taught by one of his students, not him) I was told that this was addressed in the class. I was told that they will both do the job, but that it Gunscrubber is less likely to melt the epoxy on tritium sights. Since more of my rifles and handguns have night sights than don't I spend the extra $. pat |
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