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Posted: 1/9/2014 3:23:24 PM EDT
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I just built a new Ar15 with a Seekins billet upper and lower. It has a Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and a WMD nickle boron BCG. I just took it to the range and inserted a mag. When i hit the release, the bolt went forward, but it did not seat all the way. I had to force it out. I finally gave up there and took it home. I swapped out my 6920 lower and bcg and had the same issues. I tried using store bought ammo instead of my reloads but it made no difference. The only thing I have not tried is other mags besides my pmags. I have 25 of these and really hope this is not the issue. Any idea what would be causing this?
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| Also, check the half-moon cutout inside the upper receiver that allows the cam pin room to rotate when it locks, and unlocks. The cam pin could be getting jammed here. Look for any gouges, wear marks, etc. around the half-moon cutout, and also the cam pin for the same thing. |
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Also, check the half-moon cutout inside the upper receiver that allows the cam pin room to rotate when it locks, and unlocks. The cam pin could be getting jammed here. Look for any gouges, wear marks, etc. around the half-moon cutout, and also the cam pin for the same thing. I didn't even think of this. Definitely check this to see if the edge of the cam pin is catching, and check the gas key on the carrier for signs of getting caught up on the gas tube |
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Might want to pull the extractor and look for both a O ring and a extra tension extractor spring installed.
Also a quick photo of the face of the bolt with the extractor installed would help, since the ramp on the extractor may be out of spec and not allowing the rim of the case to open the extractor up so the rim can lock in place. Also, would help to know the location of the bolt face when you had the jam. If the bolt was behind the case rim, and the bullet just starting to enter the barrel lugs, then FP is catching on the hammer. If the bolt a bolt about a half inch off the barrel lugs, then gas tube. If the bolt just starting to enter the barrel lugs, then either head space problem, or the extractor problem noted above. And as noted, pull the bolt off the carrier and try to dry fit the carrier with key in the upper to check for any binding problems (key too wide for the upper slot channel, or gas tube not aligned with the carrier key. If no binding problem, put the bolt B/C back together and dry fit the B/C by hand into the upper for cam and lug to lug binding problems next. |
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Thanks for all the ideas guys. I have swapped 2 of my other BCG to see if I just had a bad one but they all binded the same way. I'll get some more pics up when I get off this afternoon.
I would say it is about 1/4-1/2" in from closing before it binds. It always locks on to the case rim. |
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Thought I should add: When I close the bolt with no ammo, it seats just fine. Here's a picture of the bolt in its stuck position. http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy6/Knighthawk1911/6F8E92F4-D309-4FC5-B47E-95611FA9E41F_zps41upz5ai.jpg If the key is not binding up on the gas tube, the rim of the round not having a problem getting past the front of the extractor, then would dare to guess that the head spacing on the barrel is too tight. You mentioned that this was a problem with a different B/C as well, so time for the bolt and barrel to be checked for a head spacing problem. Also, with the selector on safe and keeping muzzle control, try to load a live round, then cycle the live round out, and post a photo of any wear makes on the round. When you hand cycle out the round, the right hand barrel lugs are going to scratch the tip of the bullet (normal), but it other marks like the shoulder of the case that looks to be pushed back, o the tip of the bullet that maybe has signs of rifling engagement, or other loading scrapping/marring mark on the case or rim that I want to see. |
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I had this exact issue with my brand new build. First 3 rounds didn't chamber, I could still see most of the bolt. I lubed the crap out of it, tried different ammo, fired 5 rounds. Then went back to teh troublesome ammo and that worked too. Not sure if it was a tight new upper needing to be quick broken in or just lubed up.
I'm using a PTAC upper receiver, Daniel Defense 11.5" CHF 5.56 and a spikes tactical Chrome M16 BCG, and a used slightly bent badger ordnance charging handle. |
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I had this exact issue with my brand new build. First 3 rounds didn't chamber, I could still see most of the bolt. I lubed the crap out of it, tried different ammo, fired 5 rounds. Then went back to teh troublesome ammo and that worked too. Not sure if it was a tight new upper needing to be quick broken in or just lubed up. I'm using a PTAC upper receiver, Daniel Defense 11.5" CHF 5.56 and a spikes tactical Chrome M16 BCG, and a used slightly bent badger ordnance charging handle. Good point, and did not think of that, The charging handle pulls the B/C back via the ledge on the top of the carrier just in front of the key (read key and gas tube should fit inside the hole in the front without binding). If the charging handle lower tab lip below the hole for the gas tube to go through is too long, then is will bind the B/C up just at the point of lock up. With the min of rounds through the rifle, pull the charging handle and take a look at the edge of the tab on it that pulls the Carrier back. The back bottom edge should still be sharp, and should not have any wear marks to the bottom the pull tab. Also, should not be any wear marks in the channel through the center of the pull tab either. |
The case rim seems to come out fine after mortaring the round out. The bullets are getting a little eaten up. Here's a picture. I'm beginning to think the chamber might be too tight. Either that or Grim might be right about it being brand new. I tried some azoom dummy's and they cycled fine but they are way shorter than a normal round.
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The case rim seems to come out fine after mortaring the round out. The bullets are getting a little eaten up. Here's a picture. I'm beginning to think the chamber might be too tight. Either that or Grim might be right about it being brand new. I tried some azoom dummy's and they cycled fine but they are way shorter than a normal round. http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy6/Knighthawk1911/6840E05F-BCB3-4F2E-9974-A7F0AD329DBF_zpsfucazdfc.jpg Can't tell if its just the lighting, but the shoulder of the case does look to be a tad compressed from being loaded (as if the head space it too tight). Have you taken a chamber brush with CLP to the chamber to make sure that you have it spotless? If so, then may be time to break a Go gauge to check head space. |
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Yes I cleaned it extremely well prior to shooting. I guess I'll have to by a GO guage. It it fails on this, does that mean I have to send it back to Noveske? Yes, and send the bolt along (just bolt, not the carrier) so they can head space the chamber to that bolt when they adjust the head space with a reamer if needed. |
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I just built a new Ar15 with a Seekins billet upper and lower. It has a Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and a WMD nickle boron BCG. I just took it to the range and inserted a mag. When i hit the release, the bolt went forward, but it did not seat all the way. I had to force it out. I finally gave up there and took it home. I swapped out my 6920 lower and bcg and had the same issues. I tried using store bought ammo instead of my reloads but it made no difference. The only thing I have not tried is other mags besides my pmags. I have 25 of these and really hope this is not the issue. Any idea what would be causing this? Thanks Knighthawk1911, I have a simular situation with my newly bought rifle. I had a nickle boron BCG in mine and after the first round the bolt wouldn't go into battery! All I did was replace the entire BCG and now it seems to seat properly but I need some range time with it again to find out of it functions properly. I wonder for you if your BCG is outta spec like mine apprears to be. I think when the BCG goes forward the bolt isn't twisting to allow the lugs to lock up in the breech. This I believe there's too much friction between the gas rings and the carrier. Perhaps too much chroming in that area making the surface too thick. Impala |
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Knighthawk1911, I have a simular situation with my newly bought rifle. I had a nickle boron BCG in mine and after the first round the bolt wouldn't go into battery! All I did was replace the entire BCG and now it seems to seat properly but I need some range time with it again to find out of it functions properly. I wonder for you if your BCG is outta spec like mine apprears to be. I think when the BCG goes forward the bolt isn't twisting to allow the lugs to lock up in the breech. This I believe there's too much friction between the gas rings and the carrier. Perhaps too much chroming in that area making the surface too thick. Impala Quoted:
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I just built a new Ar15 with a Seekins billet upper and lower. It has a Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and a WMD nickle boron BCG. I just took it to the range and inserted a mag. When i hit the release, the bolt went forward, but it did not seat all the way. I had to force it out. I finally gave up there and took it home. I swapped out my 6920 lower and bcg and had the same issues. I tried using store bought ammo instead of my reloads but it made no difference. The only thing I have not tried is other mags besides my pmags. I have 25 of these and really hope this is not the issue. Any idea what would be causing this? Thanks Knighthawk1911, I have a simular situation with my newly bought rifle. I had a nickle boron BCG in mine and after the first round the bolt wouldn't go into battery! All I did was replace the entire BCG and now it seems to seat properly but I need some range time with it again to find out of it functions properly. I wonder for you if your BCG is outta spec like mine apprears to be. I think when the BCG goes forward the bolt isn't twisting to allow the lugs to lock up in the breech. This I believe there's too much friction between the gas rings and the carrier. Perhaps too much chroming in that area making the surface too thick. Impala That's what I was thinking at first, however, I have tried 2 other standard BCG's and they all have the same issue unfortunately. |
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That's what I was thinking at first, however, I have tried 2 other standard BCG's and they all have the same issue unfortunately. Quoted:
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I just built a new Ar15 with a Seekins billet upper and lower. It has a Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and a WMD nickle boron BCG. I just took it to the range and inserted a mag. When i hit the release, the bolt went forward, but it did not seat all the way. I had to force it out. I finally gave up there and took it home. I swapped out my 6920 lower and bcg and had the same issues. I tried using store bought ammo instead of my reloads but it made no difference. The only thing I have not tried is other mags besides my pmags. I have 25 of these and really hope this is not the issue. Any idea what would be causing this? Thanks Knighthawk1911, I have a simular situation with my newly bought rifle. I had a nickle boron BCG in mine and after the first round the bolt wouldn't go into battery! All I did was replace the entire BCG and now it seems to seat properly but I need some range time with it again to find out of it functions properly. I wonder for you if your BCG is outta spec like mine apprears to be. I think when the BCG goes forward the bolt isn't twisting to allow the lugs to lock up in the breech. This I believe there's too much friction between the gas rings and the carrier. Perhaps too much chroming in that area making the surface too thick. Impala That's what I was thinking at first, however, I have tried 2 other standard BCG's and they all have the same issue unfortunately. Knighthawk1911, Remove your entire BCG and twist the bolt itself. Does it toggle with what may appear to be excessive friction? On mine I admit mine did even after cleaning and oiling. It's possible during the firing sequence the bolt won't toggle into locked position due to the excessive pressure placed on the gas rings. Since you replaced your entire BCG and got the same results I wonder now if perhaps your ammo is a little weak. On another rifle it was short stroking with not enough spring pressure to slam the bolt closed. Other than that I admit I's stumped. Impala |
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Knighthawk1911, Remove your entire BCG and twist the bolt itself. Does it toggle with what may appear to be excessive friction? On mine I admit mine did even after cleaning and oiling. It's possible during the firing sequence the bolt won't toggle into locked position due to the excessive pressure placed on the gas rings. Since you replaced your entire BCG and got the same results I wonder now if perhaps your ammo is a little weak. On another rifle it was short stroking with not enough spring pressure to slam the bolt closed. Other than that I admit I's stumped. Impala Quoted:
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I just built a new Ar15 with a Seekins billet upper and lower. It has a Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and a WMD nickle boron BCG. I just took it to the range and inserted a mag. When i hit the release, the bolt went forward, but it did not seat all the way. I had to force it out. I finally gave up there and took it home. I swapped out my 6920 lower and bcg and had the same issues. I tried using store bought ammo instead of my reloads but it made no difference. The only thing I have not tried is other mags besides my pmags. I have 25 of these and really hope this is not the issue. Any idea what would be causing this? Thanks Knighthawk1911, I have a simular situation with my newly bought rifle. I had a nickle boron BCG in mine and after the first round the bolt wouldn't go into battery! All I did was replace the entire BCG and now it seems to seat properly but I need some range time with it again to find out of it functions properly. I wonder for you if your BCG is outta spec like mine apprears to be. I think when the BCG goes forward the bolt isn't twisting to allow the lugs to lock up in the breech. This I believe there's too much friction between the gas rings and the carrier. Perhaps too much chroming in that area making the surface too thick. Impala That's what I was thinking at first, however, I have tried 2 other standard BCG's and they all have the same issue unfortunately. Knighthawk1911, Remove your entire BCG and twist the bolt itself. Does it toggle with what may appear to be excessive friction? On mine I admit mine did even after cleaning and oiling. It's possible during the firing sequence the bolt won't toggle into locked position due to the excessive pressure placed on the gas rings. Since you replaced your entire BCG and got the same results I wonder now if perhaps your ammo is a little weak. On another rifle it was short stroking with not enough spring pressure to slam the bolt closed. Other than that I admit I's stumped. Impala Yea so was the LGS at the range I was at. The problem was loading a round into the chamber, not firing. I may just have to call Noveske. Anyone know the best way to do this? They have had the same answering machine message saying they will be unavailable until the 6th of Jan. I'm guessing maybe shot show is keeping them busy. I assume I just call and ask for technical support. |
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With standard chambers from 223 rem, 5.56 wylder, civilian 5.56 nato, military 5.56 Nato, then custom barrel with short throats, SBR and specialty chambers with a slightly greater cross wall dimension, it's a crap shoot on which set of gauges to really get for any one rifle.
Granted that all should head space to the shoulder the same at least, it's after the shoulder to the rifling (throat), or when checking cross wall dimensions that gets a bit strange and where you can end up with some funky readings if you have the wrong gauge. Instead of buying gauges, check in your hometown forum to see if anyone near you has a feild Go gauge that you can borrow for a few mins instead. If the barrel/bolt will not swallow a feild go gauge, then you will know right away if the head space it too tight or not. |
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With standard chambers from 223 rem, 5.56 wylder, civilian 5.56 nato, military 5.56 Nato, then custom barrel with short throats, SBR and specialty chambers with a slightly greater cross wall dimension, it's a crap shoot on which set of gauges to really get for any one rifle. Granted that all should head space to the shoulder the same at least, it's after the shoulder to the rifling (throat), or when checking cross wall dimensions that gets a bit strange and where you can end up with some funky readings if you have the wrong gauge. Instead of buying gauges, check in your hometown forum to see if anyone near you has a feild Go gauge that you can borrow for a few mins instead. If the barrel/bolt will not swallow a feild go gauge, then you will know right away if the head space it too tight or not. I'll have to try and find someone. Thanks man. I appreciate all your help. I'm trying to do everything I can before going to Noveske. I have a feeling that's going to be a nightmare |
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