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Link Posted: 2/3/2009 12:44:08 PM EDT
[#1]
below is what my gun does how do i fix it?  sometimes it will pick up the next case but it won't seat just right, and stops the carrier and you can see the case all crooked in the reciever.  i haven't found a definative answer or how to adjust the timing?  if someone could point me in the right direction that would be great.  


#3 The extractor does NOT slip off the case, but keeps pulling.
During this pulling, the bullet has JUST left the bore, pressures recede and the case shrinks down, allowing extraction.
The rest of the cycle goes as normal, but you have strong pull marks on the case.
Recoil will be higher than normal when the carrier is allowed to travel to the end of the buffer tube and bottom out swiftly against the end of the buffer tube.
In normal operation, the buffer just kisses the end of the tube.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:50:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KSODA] [#2]
Originally Posted By caneau:
Daniel, I am somewhat surprised by your post. First, Randall is not a moderator. Second, he gave one of the best write-ups about AR-15 functioning I have ever seen on this board. Hell, it's probably one of the five most useful things ever written on this board, much more valuble than slogging through page after page of EOTech vs. Aimpoint, Colt vs. Bushmaster, or 1/9 vs. 1/7 posts. It deserves a pin-up at the top of this forum. If you want to be a Mod, I advise you put that at the top of your agenda.
Second, I have never seen Randall express any favoratism for one brand or another. Let me repeat that again. Randall has NEVER expressed favoratism to one brand or another, even his own products.
If you want to be a mod, step up to the plate, help out on this forum, and do you part. I have no objections to you as mod in the absence of Tweak, but don't go after one of the most helpful people around.
Otherwise, in a manner of speaking, LAY OFF.



I don't know much about the politics or really why  some concider a post like Randall's favortism of one brand or another, but if I may add an opinion as guy who just loves to shoot black rifles and loves to read all these posts; posts like the one iin question gave me...the novis a new understanding of the gas operation of the AR15.

I wrote a post last night because yesterday my Bushmaster M4A3 stopped ejecting, but I have the Gas Tube Retrofit installed in my M4 which diverts the gasses away from the reciever/bolt assy, I found the gas ttube roll pin missing but was unsure whether the retrofit kit does away with that pin or not, so I wanted to understand more of the exact operation.

I searched tthe message boards for a half hour to an hour before I came across Randall's post. While Ihave to re-read the post again, I don't recall reading about the Gas tube retrofit operation, but regardless, Randall's post was quite enlightening and answered many otherquestions I've had about the gas operation.

Bushmaster offers a great anatomy of their M4, but not on the retrofit.
http://www.bushmaster.com/anatomy_bushmaster.asp

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as a bystander, I didn't see favortism in his post, but only great information which helped me understand a lot more than I did yesterday. I hope this helps. But I'd like to see that same post include the gas piston retrofit operation as it operates much differently by sending gasses through the front of the tube under the hand guard.

Link Posted: 2/21/2010 12:42:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Very nice write up. I hope this thread stays up which helped me understand the mechanics and physics involved with the AR system. Well done
Link Posted: 2/16/2011 6:31:44 PM EDT
[#4]
a FEW THOUGHTS FROM A NEWBIE-
1. if the carrier is the newer colt open bottom the no longer present FA carrier "step" is relieved such that as the trigger/hammer sear is worn down even a hair the hammer can catch the fp not at rear but rather between fp rear and midpin enlarged ring resulting in a bent firing pin. Happened to me with a titanium pin and rapid semi auto fire in a newer colt 16" civvy model. This was explained to me by a guru whom I cannot name without permission.

2. Herters made a primer pocket diameter measuring tool for reloaders that works quite well to measure gas port diameter. As usual material is more easily removed than put back on.

3. To adjust these variables I started with a low profile stainless steel gas block. Drilled gas tube hole thru to front. Tapped block sides so smaller set screws can hold gas tube in place without penetrating.  Finally tapped front hole to accept standard set screw. Then drilled set screws with varying size holes in center allowing gas porting out front via set screw hole. Basically a "bleeder system" a set of half dozen set screws now can serve as a regulation system. Started with wide open, no cycling- single shot and then gradually tightened ports until reliability assured with minimum of slamming bcg with excess pressure. This process seemed to work, at least for one guy with one set of parts, 11.5" barrel, fat stainless, .750"  ID, heavy dual chamber muzzle break, old slickside chromed bcg, and a homebrew billet cut upper of 330 stainless steel.

gradually enlarging a bleeder port seems easier than drilling/enlarging holes in barrel.

A firm believer in the DI system where all moving metal is on same axis, has served us well.
Link Posted: 6/3/2011 10:30:31 PM EDT
[#5]
tried 5 different rifles. Tula ammo. All rifles FTE after 3-4 mags. Great technical stuff here, sometimes cheap cases do not work as well as brass. been around a long time, shoot every week.
Link Posted: 10/23/2011 12:33:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Wow, I gotta say I learned soooooooo much from this post

Thank You

Understanding the mechanics and how they are supposed to work really can help one when dealing with a problem

Thanks again

Marc
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 10:46:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 2/18/2013 4:10:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Just found this very old post and read it with great interest. Not to stir up the bee's nest but something here does not seem right. I quote in blue/green the part that I have a problem with. -- #3 The extractor does NOT slip off the case, but keeps pulling. During this pulling, the bullet has JUST left the bore, pressures recede and the case shrinks down, allowing extraction. The rest of the cycle goes as normal, but you have strong pull marks on the case.
The part in green implies that the bolt extractor has begun pulling on the case rim while the bullet is travelling down the barrel.
The problem I have with this is that the carrier does NOT begin any rearward movement at all until the bullet has already left the barrel. Since the carrier has not started rearward movement then how could the bolt/extractor start pulling while the bullet is still in the barrel? What am I missing here?
Link Posted: 3/12/2013 10:16:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 8/24/2013 3:27:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Awesome post, albeit many moons ago.
You commented that same owners open-up or ream out there barrel gas port thereby hoping to increase tube gas pressure in order to solve one of several stated problems. You further state that over-pressure is generally more prevalent an issue than under pressure  for certain issues.  That being said, I also believe that by opening up the barrel gas port a few thousandth's really does increase down-stream gas pressure.  Here's my take. If the barrel gas port is a smaller diameter than either the gas block hole diameter or the gas tube ID, then the barrel port acts like an orifice in a flowing hydraulic system.  Typically, IMHO, an orifice in a flowing gas system acts as a pressure reducer because it restricts flow when gas enters it. A common comparison is an orifice installed in a gas pipeline that decreases downstream pressure and restricts and reduces flowrates. So logic tells me that opening up the barrel port will allow more flow and an increase in pressure downstream, provided the initial assumption holds true - that the barrel port is smaller in diameter than the gas block hole and gas tube.
If you agree, let's look at the problem of a bolt/carrier not retracted far enough to reset the trigger hammer 100% of the time. (Which just happens to be my issue at the moment with my Timney cartridge-type trigger assy).  Let's further assume that all other causes of a failure to reset the hammer 100% of the time have been eliminated - ammo, friction, springs, tight nuts and components, etc.  Does it follow that one should attempt to open-up the barrel port a nominal amount in an attempt to obtain more reliable hammer resets, or does this create retraction speed problems that may only compound the issue?
If you are still available I would enjoy your response, and for that matter any others who care to weigh in.
Link Posted: 3/21/2014 10:13:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Leemlh:
Hello all!

This site is amazing. I rarely need to post with so many questions already answered. God bless the search function!

I am a little confused on the dwell time vs. max pressure. I am considering a 16" CMMG carbine with a rifle-length system. CMMG M10 Full Length MedCon Rifle (scroll down) After reading this topic, I am now unsure if that is a wise choice. The charts Randall was so kind to produce show:

16" barrel with rifle gas = ~18k PSI and .078 dwell time

14.5" barrel with carbine gas = ~25k PSI and .206 dwell time

Can someone explain which would be worse and why? Shorter dwell time vs higher pressure? I thought I had it figured out until I started to compare gas systems and barrel lengths. If .2 is the optimum dwell time, does that negate the higher pressures the carbine would be submitted to? I know that there are other options, but these were my two main selections. Carbine and rifle gas are more commonly available, and I am set on a 16" or less barrel. Longevity and reliability are the key concerns for the rifle.

Am I suffering from Acute Anal Black Rifle Disease?

Thanks for any help!

S/F,
[div style='margin-left: 40px;']
Lee
View Quote


I'm also kicking around the idea of a 16in barrel with a rifle gas system and have the same questions...can this system work reliably?
Link Posted: 9/29/2014 11:55:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 12:58:42 PM EDT
[#13]
What would the diameter of the gas port on a 18" barrel in .308 for an AR-10 action? It seems that I have the problem with "short-stroking" and the brass stovepipes at a 90 degree angle while trying to strip another round from the magazine. Is it undergassed or overgassed? The ammo is ZQI 147gr FMJ. I tried another brand of ammunition, PPU 165gr SP, and it seemed to function fine, no stovepipes until the ZQI ammo comes into battery. Any ideas?
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 2:44:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WILSON] [#14]
Link Posted: 8/26/2016 4:31:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dano523] [#15]
Link Posted: 6/15/2023 7:49:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: knjdefense] [#16]
Great thread
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