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Posted: 9/7/2002 3:05:19 PM EDT
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My "shorty" post ban is acting up by not extracting a fired round about one out of 30. Not a good thing! It has about 4 to 5 thousand rounds thru it. Does it need a new extractor? It doesn't pull thru the rim but does leave a definite mark. New extractor? One of the aftermarket ones? Thanks. |
| I just had the same problem. Mine started out at 1 out of 10 then got to almost every round without extracting. It's most likely your spring or extractor. I used a piece of fuel tubing in place of the spring which tightened it up alot and didn't have any problems the next day shooting 320 rounds. Read the other post I started. ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=139330 |
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Tumor, Pull your extractor and check the claw channel cut for burs. When the channel/grove cut is made, sometimes it leaves outer edge burs and does not allow the extractor to fully grab the ammo's rim. If needed, use a small jeweler's file and remove the burs. To check the extractor for replacement, check the craw to verify that it is still sharp. If it has become rounded/dull, it's time for a new one. The idea of adding tension to the spring, if the rifle ran before, is only a band-aid and will only cause you more problems down the road. Remember, band-aids are for scraps and cuts, and even thought they are shown as a joke/point on the early maintenance manual, have no place in regards to repairing the rifle. |
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I used a bore mop and "FLITZ" metal polish (not very abrasive) to polish the chamber of my AR shorty AFTER the chamber brush and solvent cleaning. WOW!!! The mop came out completely black after only a few seconds in a slow rotation hand-drill. I cleaned the mop and ran it in a few more seconds, black again. Do these chambers get that filthy? The chmaber brush doesn't seem to do too good a job other than "knocking off the big chunks". I've used "FLITZ" for years to polish chambers and it has always worked well. But using it in the AR shows me how the chamber walls can get clogged with garbage. What do you think? |
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Flitz, like Brasso, will polish the chamber, but due to their property, will remove a fine layer of sheet. The black that your seeing is not so much fouling, but the fine layer of steel being removed. The thing thing to remember is if the product will polish plastic, then it has a abrasion property to it. In the future to clean the chamber, without removing metal, use a bore solvent and not the polishing compound. P.S. As long as your chamber was not oversized to begin with, your chamber will be bright and shinny as a babies butt, and fine to shoot. |
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Most likely the extractor spring/insert. The extraction on 16" AR's seems marginal at best. I have pulled and examined extactor springs and inserts after heavy use. In particular the insert is noticeably shortened. I suspect the spring is weakened but unable to objectively test. I would recommend replacement with a heavy duty spring with black insert. As an expedient buy a #61 "O" ring ($0.34) at a home supply store {Lowes} and install around the extractor spring to test. |
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Brownells and Wolff Gunsprings sell a heavy duty extractor spring. SAW Sales www.sawlesales.com/ sells Colt parts including the M4 heavy duty extractor spring and their own heavy duty extractor spring with a black insert. I have bought from SAW in the past but they have a minimum order of $50. Few of us need $50 worth of extractor springs. When you open the tiny envelope tears form in your eyes, but in my experience that is what it takes to keep these 16" guns going in the long run. Many people on the board are of the opinion that the insert color is just a means of identifying the heavy duty spring and is in itself of no significance. I am considering placing another order at some future date additional heavy duty springs and offering them in small quanities to board members. |
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Tumor, My M4-gery was doing this. I polished my chamber with Flitz and a mop and replaced the extractor spring with the Wolff extra power spring. I reused my blue insert (ok according to Wolff). 2000 rounds without a single malfunction since... You can get the black inserts from Armalite ($25 minimum order, though). I picked up several, along with other spare parts to make the $25 minimum since I rplaced the extractor spring. 66B |
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Go for the custom springs from www.sawlesales.com they are magic...like Penicilln to an infection. they are so good they don't need the inserts, per Ken at SAW who is the #1 Colt armorers instructor. Per Colt Blue inserts are for rifles Black inserts for carbines There is a difference ( I'm no insert engineer so I won't try to explain it) It has to do with dampening rebound and vibrations. different systems (short vs long barrels) have different gas systems in place and place different stresses on the whole weapon system...so different inserts. |
Colt is amazing. I wish they would get one story and stick to it. When I finally got an answer from them last year after asking the identical question, they responded that the inserts were identical save for the color which is a coding device to differentiate the old from the new springs which have a heavier rate. It was their understanding that the lighter springs with the blue inserts were only to be used in 20" rifles until the supply was exhausted and then all rifles would get the heavier spring with the black insert. BTSOOM FWIW |
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TUMOR, Thanks for the report. I saw Dilbert cartoon recently in which Dogbert said "the problem with good advice is no one wants to hear it. You showed otherwise. A significant number (most) of reported problems for the 16" carbines posted here can be traced to weak extractor springs. It would be interesting to do a long term test with the "O" ring. I think we would be suprised on how long this would last. 400 rounds is a good start. Let me know if you need some help on the heavy duty extractor spring. |
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I also was having extractor problems with my "shorty". I went to Fulton Armory's website, and ordered a new extractor, spring with black insert, and their D-fender extractor enhancer. Worked like a charm. I have not had a single extraction failure since. I cannot say enough good things about Fulton Armory. Very prompt shipment, fair prices, and they are glad to answer any questions or give advice with weapon function problems via fast and informative e-mails. Give them a try sometime....you will be glad you did. www.fultonarmory.com Herman Snerd |
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Who can explain the RED inserts??? Bud Because we can Okay...How about reddish-orange extractor spring buffers(inserts)? I R&R'd the extractor on my Bushy pistol and that's what came out...a red buffer. I dug through a crate of parts with my bolt repair odds & ends...turnsout that I had (4) more red ones & (2) reddish-orange. NIW, but without inventory tags...are they Armalite leftovers or early BM? Bud |
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Hmmmmmmmmm....had another bad day today. 3 failues to extract. The O-ring helped but still had 3 failures. I swabbed some BreakFree thru the bore and chamber, no more failures in 180 rounds. The extractor doesn't pull thru the rim although it does leave a very bright finish on the front edge of the contact area. Bad extractor? |
Here's a quote from a previous thread in which we were talking about basically the same subject. The discussion included the $50 purchase minimum of SAW, and then the Wolff X-Power Extractor Springs, which prompted Shamayim to contact Wolff:
Here's the thread, with the discussion about the different color extractor spring inserts: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=128382&page=1 Chris |
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