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Posted: 1/25/2017 10:33:44 PM EDT
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So, a co-worker ask if he could use my headspace gauges, FYI they are Clymer Tool 223 Match go/no-go(1.4636 and 1.4666)and I also have a 5.56 no-go gauge(1.4696). According to Clymer that is all that is needed for checking 223, 223 Wylde and 5.56. The barrel was a Rainier Arms 223 Wylde SS, not sure the exact model, and the BCG was a BCM. We disassemble the bolt from the BCG and remove the extractor spring like I do on all of my builds. So while checking the barrel outside of the upper, the bolt will not close on the GO gauge. So just to check, I tried both of the NO-GO and it would not close. So I removed the gauges and checked without a gauge and it would close. At his point I'm thinking that the bolt or the barrel is out of spec. To check we pulled the bolt out of his DPMS that had less than 500 rounds through it. We checked the DPMS with my gauges and it was GTG. We checked the new Rainer barrel with the DPMS with the same result, failed on the GO gauge.
We called Rainier and told them what we had. Both of the reps we spoke to were nice. The first was a female that said she could help after I asked for Tech Support, but after a short bit she transferred me to a guy. They asked if I was using 223 Wylde gauges and I said no. They said that they check every barrel with 223 Wylde gauges before it leaves the factory. I asked what was the size of their go gauges and they said 1.4636, the same as mine. I told them that mine was the same size and the guy said, " but they are not for 223 Wylde". After a brief conversation where he said, " I don't sit around all day checking the headspace of barrels, but you have to use the correct gauge", he said to send them the barrel and BCG to them to check it. He also said that, "bolt carriers are mass produced and often are not correct."  ......I was thinking, so are barrels.
Anyway, my co-worker told me today that he got an email saying that the barrel was bad and they were sending him a new one and it will be here Friday. So to repeat what I have said before, know your gauges, know your barrel and know your measurements. I have used some of Rainier's products and I would again, they are a good company, but Trust no one and check it your self. |
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So was the 5.56 good? And I would not have argued with the guy when the specs matched on the two gauges I would have said oh wait yet it is .223 wylde. Issue resolved then. No, the barrel would not close on any of the gauges. So it appears that the headspace was short with the go gauge, but would have passed both no-go's. |
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I bet the bolt was .001" or so big. Since new ammo is usually .005"-.010" short, there wouldn't have been a problem. They said they checked the BCG and it was good, the barrel was the problem. I'm not good with "usually", that's what specs are for. Maybe you should call them and see if thy will sell you the barrel at a discounted rate..... BCG bad, lol. Are you the guy that I spoke too????? 
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No, the barrel would not close on any of the gauges. So it appears that the headspace was short with the go gauge, but would have passed both no-go's. Quoted:
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So was the 5.56 good? And I would not have argued with the guy when the specs matched on the two gauges I would have said oh wait yet it is .223 wylde. Issue resolved then. No, the barrel would not close on any of the gauges. So it appears that the headspace was short with the go gauge, but would have passed both no-go's. |
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NO GOs are longer than GO gauges. Quoted:
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So was the 5.56 good? And I would not have argued with the guy when the specs matched on the two gauges I would have said oh wait yet it is .223 wylde. Issue resolved then. No, the barrel would not close on any of the gauges. So it appears that the headspace was short with the go gauge, but would have passed both no-go's. LOL.......I never knew what the numbers on the other side of the decimal were for.  You need to add Mathematician next to Machinist above you avatar....
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LOL.......I never knew what the numbers on the other side of the decimal were for. You need to add Mathematician next to Machinist above you avatar....Quoted:
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So was the 5.56 good? And I would not have argued with the guy when the specs matched on the two gauges I would have said oh wait yet it is .223 wylde. Issue resolved then. No, the barrel would not close on any of the gauges. So it appears that the headspace was short with the go gauge, but would have passed both no-go's. LOL.......I never knew what the numbers on the other side of the decimal were for. You need to add Mathematician next to Machinist above you avatar....
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I feel like things need to be explained when details like removing the ejector are left out when checking headspace is all. Quoted:
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So was the 5.56 good? And I would not have argued with the guy when the specs matched on the two gauges I would have said oh wait yet it is .223 wylde. Issue resolved then. No, the barrel would not close on any of the gauges. So it appears that the headspace was short with the go gauge, but would have passed both no-go's. LOL.......I never knew what the numbers on the other side of the decimal were for. You need to add Mathematician next to Machinist above you avatar....I did remove the extractor spring, did you not read all of my post? Also do you know how to check headspace when the barrel is not attached to the upper? 
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I did remove the extractor spring, did you not read all of my post? Also do you know how to check headspace when the barrel is not attached to the upper? I have found a number of barrels that failed a Go gage check with a high tolerance bolt. Measured from the back of the lugs to the bolt face the tolerance range for bolts is .153” to .156”. Mostly the same way it is checked in the upper. Remove the EJECTOR and the EXTRACTOR. Some gages have a cutout for the ejector and don't require the ejector to be removed. Put the gage in the chamber and try to turn the bolt to the locked position. |
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I know how to check the headspace on the barrel. When you check it outside of the upper you don't have to remove the extractor or the ejector.
I checked the headspace on the barrel and it failed and the manufacture agreed. Whether or not you agree with the way I checked it the manufacturer came to the same conclusion that I did, THE BARREL FAILED. Bottom line is check your headspace and know what you're doing when you do it. |
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I always match bolts to my barrels before installing the barrels.
Personally I will continue to go with the recommendation of my gage manufacturer; which is to remove the ejector and extractor to check headspace. It does not matter if the barrel is installed or not. |
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I always match bolts to my barrels before installing the barrels. Personally I will continue to go with the recommendation of my gage manufacturer; which is to remove the ejector and extractor to check headspace. It does not matter if the barrel is installed or not. I'm all about doing it the way the manufacturer suggest. I've headspaced several dozen barrels and this is the first that has failed. Have you ever had a barrel that failed with the ejector and extractor, but past with them or Vice versa? |
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I'm all about doing it the way the manufacturer suggest. I've headspaced several dozen barrels and this is the first that has failed. Have you ever had a barrel that failed with the ejector and extractor, but past with them or Vice versa? Yes, most all will fail the GO gauge with the ejector installed, if they are close to the minimum. Unless the gauge has an ejector cut out. |
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Yes, most all will fail the GO gauge with the ejector installed, if they are close to the minimum. Unless the gauge has an ejector cut out. Quoted:
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I'm all about doing it the way the manufacturer suggest. I've headspaced several dozen barrels and this is the first that has failed. Have you ever had a barrel that failed with the ejector and extractor, but past with them or Vice versa? Yes, most all will fail the GO gauge with the ejector installed, if they are close to the minimum. Unless the gauge has an ejector cut out. So it can't be over come by a little more pressure when checking not attached to the upper? If not, I guess I have never had one close... |
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So it can't be over come by a little more pressure when checking not attached to the upper? If not, I guess I have never had one close... I have always removed both the extractor and ejector. Just for fun on one build I played with variations of extractor in and out, ejector in or out, and the bolt would not close on a Go with the ejector left in. Just an N of 1, but enough to prove to me that it can make a difference. I use Forster case gauges. Manson has made some with the extractor and ejector relief cut in but they are not listed on the site. At least one of our regulars has a set and does not need to remove the extractor or ejector. Manson says that their currently available gauges have a rim dimension that allows the gauge to position correctly under the extractor and to center on closing the bolt so as to allow correct use without removing the extractor and ejector, but I have not used them. Manson case gauge pdf |
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I'm all about doing it the way the manufacturer suggest. I've headspaced several dozen barrels and this is the first that has failed. Have you ever had a barrel that failed with the ejector and extractor, but past with them or Vice versa? Since my SOP is to remove the ejector I would never see anything. I have found grit or something in the hole on a few occasions and in one case a bad spring so I consider the exercise worthwhile for multiple reasons. So far all of the Go gage failures I have had were with bolts that measured in .155” - .156” range and switching to a bolt that measured at the low end of the range worked. Usually when I see a post on a Go gage failure that was sent back the manufacturer says it passed their check. Obviously in your case the barrel assmby was clearly beyond this for them to replace it. The best manufacturers out there have the occasional problem. I am a member of the “trust but verify” school of thought. I buy from vendors I think are trustworthy, but still find the occasional issue. |
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