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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - My First AR and 80% lower question (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/2/2015 9:28:53 PM EDT
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Noob to ARs here. Been lurking, reading and surfing the web for a couple of months or so. Labor Day Sale so I just ordered:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/psa-16-chf-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-ultra-light-moe-defender-rifle-kit.html So, my question is, where's the most reliable place to get 80% lowers and a jig? I tried to search first but couldn't search because the search doesn't like the % sign. I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive anodized and found some interesting stuff. *DISCLAIMER* I am not a shill. Daytona Tactical and a couple of others kept showing up on google when searching for 80% lowers. I'd found their "great" deals when looking for an AR rifle kit and soon found the archived thread here about them. I Google mapped their address and a little flag pointed to a "Gun Parts Plus" at the same address. Their website shows the same kits as DT. When you Street View the address it's a crappy metal strip garage. One of the signs on the door says "Elite Custom Mailing Inc." Hmmm. Two websites with the same address and nothing you can see in the street view (the garage door is open and all you can see a lot of crap) looks even remotely firearm related. Another vendor that popped up was less than a mile away - Thunder Guns - Whose stuff also looked familiar... Street view of their address shows "Decorative Electro Coatings". Has anyone ever bought anything from any of these clowns? And please, I'm sure there must be other threads on 80% so point me there. Thanks! I am looking forward to soon making little holes in paper a lot farther away than I can with my Glock. |
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Thanks! I knew the info was already here somewhere.
That Modulus jig is a work of art but since I'm probably only going to do two or three I can't really justify $200. Looks like TM fills the bill. I was kind of leaning that way but reassurance by those who have gone before is always nice. Now I have to get the ex's crap out of the garage and buy a drill press. I will be back when I actually have something to show. Thanks again! |
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Thanks! I knew the info was already here somewhere. That Modulus jig is a work of art but since I'm probably only going to do two or three I can't really justify $200. Looks like TM fills the bill. I was kind of leaning that way but reassurance by those who have gone before is always nice. Now I have to get the ex's crap out of the garage and buy a drill press. I will be back when I actually have something to show. Thanks again! I said that one time with my first 80%, now 8 completed lowers later with 3 to go, I am looking for more to finish. It becomes an addiction. I'm glad I got the Modulus Jig, makes it much easier. I've used Tactical Machine, New Frontier 80%, and Iconic Industries lowers. The modulus Jig is the only one that could do all three. |
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What is the attraction to getting 80% lowers versus a stripped ready to go lower? Because you can build it yourself.. no manufacturers name or logo on the lower.. you can get it roll marked/ engraved however you want it.... FREEEEEEEDOM (use your best William Wallace voice) |
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Where are you getting $200? The complete Modulus jig is only $150 including the endmill Quoted:
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That Modulus jig is a work of art but since I'm probably only going to do two or three I can't really justify $200. Where are you getting $200? The complete Modulus jig is only $150 including the endmill Damn. It wasn't on sale the last time I looked. Thanks! |
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Legally it's just a paperweight. No serial number, no registration, no "visibility". No guvmint. It's YOURS. Forever. Quoted:
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What is the attraction to getting 80% lowers versus a stripped ready to go lower? Legally it's just a paperweight. No serial number, no registration, no "visibility". No guvmint. It's YOURS. Forever. For me it's fun to finish 80% lowers on my Easy Jig, so I am a fan of 80% lowers. As far as it being yours forever, well, the guvmint can ban anything, including lowers you made yourself. For most people, especially AR noobs, I would suggest purchasing a lower over building one every day of the week and twice on Sunday. |
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Quoted: Thanks! I knew the info was already here somewhere. That Modulus jig is a work of art but since I'm probably only going to do two or three I can't really justify $200. Looks like TM fills the bill. I was kind of leaning that way but reassurance by those who have gone before is always nice. Now I have to get the ex's crap out of the garage and buy a drill press. I will be back when I actually have something to show. Thanks again! What kind of drill press are you looking at purchasing? edit for emphasis |
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For me it's fun to finish 80% lowers on my Easy Jig, so I am a fan of 80% lowers. As far as it being yours forever, well, the guvmint can ban anything, including lowers you made yourself. For most people, especially AR noobs, I would suggest purchasing a lower over building one every day of the week and twice on Sunday. You admit that it is a fun project, then go on to say that nobody should do it. that doesn't seem to make any sense. Nobody else is allowed to get in on the fun? As far as banning the sale 80% receivers goes, that is always a possibility. But isn't that all the more reason to jump on them now, while you still can? |
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You admit that it is a fun project, then go on to say that nobody should do it. that doesn't seem to make any sense. Nobody else is allowed to get in on the fun? As far as banning the sale 80% receivers goes, that is always a possibility. But isn't that all the more reason to jump on them now, while you still can? Quoted:
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For me it's fun to finish 80% lowers on my Easy Jig, so I am a fan of 80% lowers. As far as it being yours forever, well, the guvmint can ban anything, including lowers you made yourself. For most people, especially AR noobs, I would suggest purchasing a lower over building one every day of the week and twice on Sunday. You admit that it is a fun project, then go on to say that nobody should do it. that doesn't seem to make any sense. Nobody else is allowed to get in on the fun? As far as banning the sale 80% receivers goes, that is always a possibility. But isn't that all the more reason to jump on them now, while you still can? Most people /= Nobody. Most people would be better served with a factory 100% lower. For those who like to DIY and want the satisfaction of building their own firearm, an 80% lower is a good way to get started. |
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Yeah, that's not most people though. I think you might be surprised. As some folks here know, I am the tech rep for a jig and 80% receiver manufacturer. (I will not mention the name lest I get accused of shilling) I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working with customers who are using our products. Most customers are able to complete the receiver on their own. Of those who run into a problem or question, the vast majority of them still end up with functioning receivers as long as they are smart enough to contact me at the first sign of a problem. Usually I can walk them through the rest of the way. |
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I think you might be surprised. As some folks here know, I am the tech rep for a jig and 80% receiver manufacturer. (I will not mention the name lest I get accused of shilling) I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working with customers who are using our products. Most customers are able to complete the receiver on their own. Of those who run into a problem or question, the vast majority of them still end up with functioning receivers as long as they are smart enough to contact me at the first sign of a problem. Usually I can walk them through the rest of the way. Quoted:
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Yeah, that's not most people though. I think you might be surprised. As some folks here know, I am the tech rep for a jig and 80% receiver manufacturer. (I will not mention the name lest I get accused of shilling) I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working with customers who are using our products. Most customers are able to complete the receiver on their own. Of those who run into a problem or question, the vast majority of them still end up with functioning receivers as long as they are smart enough to contact me at the first sign of a problem. Usually I can walk them through the rest of the way. Your viewpoint is skewed, your customers are generally going to be the kind of people that prefer to build their own stuff, have some mechanical inclination, and are willing to learn. Those people make up a very small percentage of the population as a whole. And yes, the gun owning public likely has a higher percentage of so-minded people than the general population does, but even then, it's far from the majority. Most gun owners would rather just get something that they can go shoot, or at most push a couple of pins and then go shoot. |
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Your viewpoint is skewed, your customers are generally going to be the kind of people that prefer to build their own stuff, have some mechanical inclination, and are willing to learn. Those people make up a very small percentage of the population as a whole. And yes, the gun owning public likely has a higher percentage of so-minded people than the general population does, but even then, it's far from the majority. Most gun owners would rather just get something that they can go shoot, or at most push a couple of pins and then go shoot. Quoted:
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Yeah, that's not most people though. I think you might be surprised. As some folks here know, I am the tech rep for a jig and 80% receiver manufacturer. (I will not mention the name lest I get accused of shilling) I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working with customers who are using our products. Most customers are able to complete the receiver on their own. Of those who run into a problem or question, the vast majority of them still end up with functioning receivers as long as they are smart enough to contact me at the first sign of a problem. Usually I can walk them through the rest of the way. Your viewpoint is skewed, your customers are generally going to be the kind of people that prefer to build their own stuff, have some mechanical inclination, and are willing to learn. Those people make up a very small percentage of the population as a whole. And yes, the gun owning public likely has a higher percentage of so-minded people than the general population does, but even then, it's far from the majority. Most gun owners would rather just get something that they can go shoot, or at most push a couple of pins and then go shoot. That is my point. 90% of our customers, the ones with a fair amount of mechanical aptitude, are all set on there own. It's the other 10% that I am referring to. They are the ones who may have bitten off more than they can chew. But even if they are in a little over their heads, We can generally get them through it. We have no hard feelings against those who would rather start with a stripped receiver (other than the insistence on calling it a build, if there is a 4473 involved, you haven't built anything) building is not for everyone. But it is not as difficult as some folks make it out to be. |
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You admit that it is a fun project, then go on to say that nobody should do it. that doesn't seem to make any sense. Nobody else is allowed to get in on the fun? As far as banning the sale 80% receivers goes, that is always a possibility. But isn't that all the more reason to jump on them now, while you still can? Quoted:
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For me it's fun to finish 80% lowers on my Easy Jig, so I am a fan of 80% lowers. As far as it being yours forever, well, the guvmint can ban anything, including lowers you made yourself. For most people, especially AR noobs, I would suggest purchasing a lower over building one every day of the week and twice on Sunday. You admit that it is a fun project, then go on to say that nobody should do it. that doesn't seem to make any sense. Nobody else is allowed to get in on the fun? As far as banning the sale 80% receivers goes, that is always a possibility. But isn't that all the more reason to jump on them now, while you still can? You misunderstood literally everything I wrote, well done! 
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I'm not handy with tools at all. In fact, I'd never used a router or an end mill before and bought a DeWalt one just to be able to do an 80% lower project. I bought the modulus arms kit and used a hand drill. The result (now, x2):  I feel rather "accomplished". So yeah, "anyone" can make one if you can read and follow directions. |
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Geez. Didn't mean to rile the "natives".
Would I be correct in assuming that's why this forum is called "Build It Yourself"? I'm 63 and have acquired some experience. With the Modulus jig I could crank out lowers all day. A more challenging build-it-yourself would be doing an 80% WITHOUT a jig. Ya know, with just a mill, a VERNIER caliper and a drawing... and I could do that. Take a bit longer though. |
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I'm not handy with tools at all. In fact, I'd never used a router or an end mill before and bought a DeWalt one just to be able to do an 80% lower project. I bought the modulus arms kit and used a hand drill. The result (now, x2): http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/jtb33/Misc2/20150830_095243_zpsscnpllf8.jpg I feel rather "accomplished". So yeah, "anyone" can make one if you can read and follow directions. Nice job, congrats. LOL at X2, once you've got one under your belt, it's hard to stop. |
| I got an 80% from ares armor on sale for something like 30-40 bucks aluminum thinking building a lower would be great with some benefits but after some research the price to get the jig and the bits it was cheaper and a safer bet to buy a stripped lower. I still get the satisfaction of building the AR without having to worry about drilling something wrong or losing my money because of some issue during the drilling process. I have been lucky getting most stripped lowers for around 30-60 bucks how can you beat that. |
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I got an 80% from ares armor on sale for something like 30-40 bucks aluminum thinking building a lower would be great with some benefits but after some research the price to get the jig and the bits it was cheaper and a safer bet to buy a stripped lower. I still get the satisfaction of building the AR without having to worry about drilling something wrong or losing my money because of some issue during the drilling process. I have been lucky getting most stripped lowers for around 30-60 bucks how can you beat that. In one word, satisfaction. Same concept for modifying and/or restoring cars. Any person with a good sum of money can go buy a classic corvette, but the guy who bought a rust bucket, did all the body work, paint, dropped in a new engine in his garage, etc., there is a level of pride and self satisfaction he will have that the guy who just bought the car will never have. Maybe only a few people will agree with me, not everyone has to enjoy doing the work, but some people enjoy the labor that goes into a project. Eta: spelling |
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I got an 80% from ares armor on sale for something like 30-40 bucks aluminum thinking building a lower would be great with some benefits but after some research the price to get the jig and the bits it was cheaper and a safer bet to buy a stripped lower. I still get the satisfaction of building the AR without having to worry about drilling something wrong or losing my money because of some issue during the drilling process. I have been lucky getting most stripped lowers for around 30-60 bucks how can you beat that. I have milled a few that aren't perfect but nobody other than me whatever know it and they all function just like they should I've walked more than a dozen people through milling their own. Most knew little to nothing about ARs or milling before they started. I probably getting more satisfaction from standing there watching and knowing I taught them a skill and i helped them make their own, than most people get out of building from a stripped lower. I have probably milled more than I will ever get around to building, but they don't go bad, they don't eat anything and I'm not hungry. |
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I got an 80percent arms easy jig and I like the cerro lowers
Righttobear dot com has good deals on them and Cerro has keyhole marking. First one turned out extremely well with just a hand drill and router. Have the second one awaiting my time now. Would love a drill press and milling machine to have a better finish but functionality is there. Only downfall is having to run anti rotation pins until I can either drill smaller holes and finish. Anderson makes nice 80 lowers and cheap but they also require drilling a 2 step safety detent hole in grip well. |
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Anderson makes nice 80 lowers and cheap but they also require drilling a 2 step safety detent hole in grip well. That is incorrect. If you received an Anderson lower that did not have the selector detent hole already finished, you got a bad one, that missed that step of the machining process. |
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That is incorrect. If you received an Anderson lower that did not have the selector detent hole already finished, you got a bad one, that missed that step of the machining process. Quoted:
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Anderson makes nice 80 lowers and cheap but they also require drilling a 2 step safety detent hole in grip well. That is incorrect. If you received an Anderson lower that did not have the selector detent hole already finished, you got a bad one, that missed that step of the machining process. I had a batch that didn't have the bolt release detent drilled, but that was common during that time. They said that was definitive of the sample they submitted to the ATF for approval. Perhaps they've had other "versions" as well. |
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I had a batch that didn't have the bolt release detent drilled, but that was common during that time. They said that was definitive of the sample they submitted to the ATF for approval. Perhaps they've had other "versions" as well. All of the mfg are pretty much caught up to the demand now as evident by the fire sale pricing on lowers. They were all running 24/7 to try to keep up. During that time Anderson had a couple of runs that missed certain operations. One was a run that missed the selector detent pin hole and another that missed the bolt catch detent hole procedure. This happened on both 80% and 100% receivers Both were well documented and Anderson replaced the bad ones for all those who wanted to return them. |
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So I bit it and went with Modulus. And their anodized lowers while I was at it. Ordered Friday, all was here Tuesday. I showed the jig to our CNC guy at work and he was amazed at both the price and the quality. He wants one...
My PSA order should arrive tomorrow. I keep checking the tracking number but it doesn't seem to make it any quicker... |
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Quoted: So I bit it and went with Modulus. And their anodized lowers while I was at it. Ordered Friday, all was here Tuesday. I showed the jig to our CNC guy at work and he was amazed at both the price and the quality. He wants one... My PSA order should arrive tomorrow. I keep checking the tracking number but it doesn't seem to make it any quicker... |
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A more challenging build-it-yourself would be doing an 80% WITHOUT a jig. Ya know, with just a mill, a VERNIER caliper and a drawing... and I could do that. Take a bit longer though. Probably not. As I own a full size Lagun knee mill, I have never used a jig. First lower I did before I had DROs installed, and that took about an hour. Today, I can knock one out in about 20 minutes. Instead of having to drill a bunch of holes and then take numerous light passes with a tool that was never meant to hog metal, using a mill allows you to do it in fewer operations. I just punch the 7/16" center cutting four flute end mill to 0.625" depth and come around once, staying ~0.005" off the final dimensions. Then I go the other .624 deep and make another pass. One more to clean up. Then I run the rear shelf at full depth and do a clean-up pass. Poke the trigger slot, then flip the thing on it's side and drill the holes. Before ATF 2015-1, I let a number of people do 80 percenters on my mill. I created a cheat sheet to make it real straight forward using the DROs. Even first timers could knock out a lower in an hour to an hour and a half. Biggest problem folks had was remembering which way to run the cranks; for most people, it is counter-intuitive to be moving the work piece rather than the cutting tool, and there were quite a few oopses after coming to a corner and then going in instead of out, left instead of right, etc. |
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Today, I can knock one out in about 20 minutes. Instead of having to drill a bunch of holes and then take numerous light passes with a tool that was never meant to hog metal. It is the tooling that matters, not what's spinning it. The endmills are solid carbide and designed specifically to cut metal. The little Ridgid R24012 router that we recommend to finish these off is one and a half horsepower, more than enough for the task. I'm pretty sure that the router does not know what it is cutting. lol I have a mill also. Obviously whacking one of these out with a mill is childs play. But not everyone has the need, money or space for a mill. Our jigs are designed for these folks |
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So I bit it and went with Modulus. And their anodized lowers while I was at it. Ordered Friday, all was here Tuesday. I showed the jig to our CNC guy at work and he was amazed at both the price and the quality... I am glad that you are pleased. Please contact me if you have any questions you may have once you get started. |
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It is the tooling that matters, not what's spinning it. That statement is beyond disingenuous, even in the narrow scope of machining 80% receivers. I didn't poo-poo your jigs, nor did I say a person couldn't turn out a decent 80 percenter with a jig and a router. And I agree that a jig and router makes a lot more sense than buying a mill for someone who only intends to do lowers. I was simply responding to a specific statement by the OP regarding milling machines. I'm really not interested in arguing equipment with you, but I'll not let such ridiculous and misleading statements go unchallenged, either. |
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That statement is beyond disingenuous, even in the narrow scope of machining 80% receivers. I'm really not interested in arguing equipment with you, but I'll not let such ridiculous and misleading statements go unchallenged, either. Quoted:
It is the tooling that matters, not what's spinning it. That statement is beyond disingenuous, even in the narrow scope of machining 80% receivers. I'm really not interested in arguing equipment with you, but I'll not let such ridiculous and misleading statements go unchallenged, either. Perhaps you'd care to share with us why you feel that a router is not up to the task? It has twice as much horsepower as a mini mill and is specifically designed for cutting latterly. I have done many of them myself and have literately hundreds of customers who have as well. I think the only real ridiculous and misleading statements here are yours. There many, many successful builds in all the AR forums to prove that it works just fine. What is your proof that contradicts that? What facts are you basing your claims on? I see nothing here other than your personal opinion. |
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Perhaps you'd care to share with us why you feel that a router is not up to the task? It has twice as much horsepower as a mini mill and is specifically designed for cutting latterly. I have done many of them myself and have literately hundreds of customers who have as well.
I think the only real ridiculous and misleading statements here are yours. There many, many successful builds in all the AR forums to prove that it works just fine. What is your proof that contradicts that? What facts are you basing your claims on? I see nothing here other than your personal opinion. As you seem only interested in arguing with me by creating straw men and ignoring much of what I say because it doesn't fit that narrative, I'll not waste further time explaining what most here with some machining background understand without my elaborations. If you wish to have a real dialogue where you don't disregard half of my statements and create your own context to frame the other half, let me know. Until then, though, understand that you're making yourself look a fool to machinists and a sanctimonious prick to everyone else. |
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Back on track...
Since I started this whole 80% game knowing nothing about milling, I enjoy and gain a ton of knowledge from those who choose to share their personal and professional experiences. I bought a mini mill and a couple of dozen different 80 and 0% lowers. I have since tried to share my experiences with others, boh in person and here on the interwebs. I still continue to read these posts to either lend my share of knowledge or to gain new perspectives. I haven't tried to use a router based jig nor a full sized knee mill, but both are on mY to do list. Based on what I've read here, both should be good experiences and should produce functional lowers. |
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As you seem only interested in arguing with me by creating straw men and ignoring much of what I say because it doesn't fit that narrative, I'll not waste further time explaining what most here with some machining background understand without my elaborations. If you wish to have a real dialogue where you don't disregard half of my statements and create your own context to frame the other half, let me know. Until then, though, understand that you're making yourself look a fool to machinists and a sanctimonious prick to everyone else. Quoted:
Perhaps you'd care to share with us why you feel that a router is not up to the task? It has twice as much horsepower as a mini mill and is specifically designed for cutting latterly. I have done many of them myself and have literately hundreds of customers who have as well.
I think the only real ridiculous and misleading statements here are yours. There many, many successful builds in all the AR forums to prove that it works just fine. What is your proof that contradicts that? What facts are you basing your claims on? I see nothing here other than your personal opinion. As you seem only interested in arguing with me by creating straw men and ignoring much of what I say because it doesn't fit that narrative, I'll not waste further time explaining what most here with some machining background understand without my elaborations. If you wish to have a real dialogue where you don't disregard half of my statements and create your own context to frame the other half, let me know. Until then, though, understand that you're making yourself look a fool to machinists and a sanctimonious prick to everyone else. What? What is straw men? I am still waiting for one single example or shred of evidence of why a router is not up to the task. I have hundreds of examples that prove that they certainly are. |
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I wanted to try the router to do an 80% just to see how they worked. I personally tried one and found that it is completely usable to make a very good 80% lower into a working lower.
While much slower than a real mill, a router is 100% usable for making a lower if you dont have a mill. Just take shallow cuts and wear good hearing protection, they are loud. I took a break after I was about 1/2 way since my arms were getting tired. I usually only have to type then press a button to machine something so the router wore me out a little. |
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What is straw men? I am still waiting for one single example or shred of evidence of why a router is not up to the task. THAT is the straw man argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I never said it couldn't be done with a router. I said a router isn't designed to hog metal, and that is a fact. Ask Milwaukee, Dewalt, or whomever's tech reps, they'll tell you the same. And if you try to make a warranty claim and mention to the warranty department that this is what you used it for, guess what they're gonna say.......................... |
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So. Used a router. Didn't "hog" any metal, just put some Pink Floyd in the earbuds and took my time. I think it turned out alright.
Is there any realistic reason to do anything further to the bare metal? I can alodine, paint or lightly oil it. I will probably be dead and dust before any significant corrosion can happen. The plan is to try out my new paper punch this weekend. YeeHaw... 
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So. Used a router. Didn't "hog" any metal, just put some Pink Floyd in the earbuds and took my time. I think it turned out alright. Is there any realistic reason to do anything further to the bare metal? I can alodine, paint or lightly oil it. I will probably be dead and dust before any significant corrosion can happen. The plan is to try out my new paper punch this weekend. YeeHaw... <a href="http://s721.photobucket.com/user/skylane5sp/media/IMG_0116.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww215/skylane5sp/IMG_0116.jpg</a> Nice job, it looks pretty clean, smooth, even and straight. I'd like to see more angles of the side walls if they look as good. As far as the finish, I have 4 I finished almost two years ago, I haven't done anything to add to the bare finish, they still look the same as the day I milled them. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - My First AR and 80% lower question (Page 1 of 2)
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