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Posted: 2/4/2015 6:01:11 PM EDT
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Hey everyone, new to the forum here.
I'm a PA state trooper and am looking to get my own patrol rifle setup the way I like now that the department has given us freedom in what we can carry. I've done alot of research and seem to keep going in circles so I'm going to ask for some help. I want to get a good lower and then SBR one upper and maybe have a 16" or 18" upper to play with. My research has led me to think that I should go with BCM or Noveske. I was considering buying a RRA fall special 16" and then buying an SBR upper since the price of the RRA was quoted at $900. I want my SBR to be very reliable since I'll be using it at work. So a few questions I have are: 1. Would a RRA lower be a good one to make my SBR lower? I'm considering it because of the lower price of the total rifle. 2. If not option 1, I'm considering buying a BCM upper and lower from G&R Tactical and its odd that if you buy the upper and lower separate, it's a couple hundred bucks cheaper than a complete rifle. Is that normal? The BCM lower seems to have some good stuff like an H buffer and and staked nut. Not sure if RRA has this. 3. It seems that alot of people say the 11" is a better choice than the 10" for SBR due to dwell time, velocity etc. Are there any 10" SBR's that are very reliable? Thanks everyone! |
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I have no idea what research lead you to believe you should either go with BCM or Noveske.
Both are great companies, but maybe not good choices. Something you may want to consider, if you fire your rifle in order to secure an 'arrest' then will you not have it confiscated until an investigation is over? I wouldn't want my $3000 Noveske in the hands of random people. Also, the rifle will gain a lot of wear unless it's cased in the trunk. Like, bare metal everywhere. That'll happen even if you never fire it. I'd go with BCM, Colt, FN, LMT, and not many others. Those will be reliable duty rifles. BCM probably gives you the most variety, since you won't be able to make after purchase mods to most of the parts on it without compromising the reliability from the mnfr. You'll NEED an optic. I suggest Aimpoint or Eotech. Weight and size will be a big consideration as well. Have you browsed BCM's website? Highly recommend you shop their uppers for a big selection. I do NOT recommend the RRA for a lower for the BCM upper or SBR project. I have an RRA Tactical Entry rifle. Either the upper or lower won't swap to my other rifles. So, not mil spec sized parts and I'm not sure they'll be as interchangable as most anything else. Spikes might be a good route for a lower. |
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Grab an 11.5 bfh or elw/elw-f upper and slap it on the lower of your choice. I prefer bcm lowers for my bcm uppers for less of a garage gun look but I'll also be the first to tell you they don't do a damn thing the more value branded lowers do...simply a matter of preference and finish.
I only have an 11.5 so sorry I can't comment on reliability vs 10.5 Of the uppers I listed, the ELWs with the kmr rails are toy like light. Very handy and easy to carry around. My 14.5 with an aim point, buis, and Lwrc compact stock is 6.2 lbs unloaded. |
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Quoted:
1. Would a RRA lower be a good one to make my SBR lower? I'm considering it because of the lower price of the total rifle. Quite possibly NO. My RRA Tact Entry has either (or both) an upper and lower that won't fit any of my others. Quoted:
2. If not option 1, I'm considering buying a BCM upper and lower from G&R Tactical and its odd that if you buy the upper and lower separate, it's a couple hundred bucks cheaper than a complete rifle. Is that normal? The BCM lower seems to have some good stuff like an H buffer and and staked nut. Not sure if RRA has this. The glorious GOV charges a big extra tax/fee when the manufacturer builds a complete firearm. a way around this is selling complete uppers and complete lowers. Usually the cheapest way to buy! Quoted:
3. It seems that alot of people say the 11" is a better choice than the 10" for SBR due to dwell time, velocity etc. Are there any 10" SBR's that are very reliable? BCM, and quite possibly ONLY BCM says that (originally). A while back BCM stated they didn't persue anything less than 11.5" barrels was that the loss after 11.5" was huge for reliability. Makes sense. That said, BCM made horrible 14.5" midlength guns and uppers. The guns were badly undergassed and borderline functional. This was done to 'smoothen' and dampen felt recoil. They've fixed it, kinda. Since then, midlength for 14.5" barrels has become a fad... and usually with that smoother recoil comes guns that are undergassed. Dirty rifle or .223, especially underpowered .223 and it won't cycle reliably. Hope these more direct answers help. |
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"Both are great companies, but maybe not good choices. Something you may want to consider, if you fire your rifle in order to secure an 'arrest' then will you not have it confiscated until an investigation is over? I wouldn't want my $3000 Noveske in the hands of random people. Also, the rifle will gain a lot of wear unless it's cased in the trunk. Like, bare metal everywhere. That'll happen even if you never fire it.
- My main purpose for buying the rifle is to have a rifle that I know and shoot well in the event that I need to use it it's just like a reflex. I dont like the way the department rifles are setup and sighted in by a handful of people. If I fire my rifle at all during work it will be taken during the investigation, but that doesnt matter to me. What matters is that if I fire it, it will be to save my life or the life of someone else. If they take it and damage it, I'll replace it, it's worth it. The whole issue of wear is why I want a good quality rifle that will be able to stand up to the abuse for years. I'm not treating this like a fragile rifle, it's a work rifle, but I want a good one. Thanks for the info about the RRA not fitting, that makes my decision much easier. Gearhead, thanks for the recommendations, I was looking at those models as well and will probably go with them. CavScout, thanks for your help too, I wasn't aware of the difference between a complete rifle vs. separate receivers. Do you think that an 11.5" BCM SBR will be reliable then? Or is it just any SBR can be tricky due to the gas systems? |
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Sheepdog, I was in the same boat as you and decided to go with the 11.5. I know you can ring steel at 100-200 yards with shorter but you gotta look at your dept ammo, velocity, and reliability since it MAY be used to save your life or someone else's.
If you have 2 similar rifles, one in 11.5 and the other in 10.5, the 11.5 "should" be more reliable theoretically because it will have "40%" more dwell time (based on my research). But rifles can be somewhat tuned and could make the 10.5 reliable, 11.5 is a good compromise because the increase in velocity, and theoretical reliability. Also, if your going form 1, then the lower will probably be married to you for the end of days (unless you can find someone that will purchase with your trust name (and state) engraved on your lower. If your going form 4, then it'll be a little harder but not as bad as engraved. RRA is fine but there are better out there. I originally went Noveske forged gen 1 lower for my form 1 but since it is now at the factory for the front pivot pin not fully seating. I have on order a Battle Arms Development (BAD) 15 forged lower, currently at Rainer's engraver for my new form 1. I too am building a SBR for work and thought long and hard about 11.5 vs 10.5 but still chose 11.5. If you need more info, send me a PM. |
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Quoted:
"Both are great companies, but maybe not good choices. Something you may want to consider, if you fire your rifle in order to secure an 'arrest' then will you not have it confiscated until an investigation is over? I wouldn't want my $3000 Noveske in the hands of random people. Also, the rifle will gain a lot of wear unless it's cased in the trunk. Like, bare metal everywhere. That'll happen even if you never fire it. - My main purpose for buying the rifle is to have a rifle that I know and shoot well in the event that I need to use it it's just like a reflex. I dont like the way the department rifles are setup and sighted in by a handful of people. If I fire my rifle at all during work it will be taken during the investigation, but that doesnt matter to me. What matters is that if I fire it, it will be to save my life or the life of someone else. If they take it and damage it, I'll replace it, it's worth it. The whole issue of wear is why I want a good quality rifle that will be able to stand up to the abuse for years. I'm not treating this like a fragile rifle, it's a work rifle, but I want a good one. Thanks for the info about the RRA not fitting, that makes my decision much easier. Gearhead, thanks for the recommendations, I was looking at those models as well and will probably go with them. CavScout, thanks for your help too, I wasn't aware of the difference between a complete rifle vs. separate receivers. Do you think that an 11.5" BCM SBR will be reliable then? Or is it just any SBR can be tricky due to the gas systems? WTF? Am I misunderstanding you there, or are you really saying only a handful of officers sight in the department rifles? Besides, that, go take a look at the Mk18/CQBR picture thread to get a good idea on exactly how a SBR in a "patrol" role should be set up. |
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Thanks for all of your insight here. I purchased a BCM lower and will be waiting for a BCM 11.5" to come in stock soon.
Where do you guys go for parts? I wanted to try and find a buy/sell forum to purchase items but haven't found one. Yes our firearm instructors sight in the rifles because we all share them. That's a big part of why I'm buying my own rifle. I've seen it on more than one occasion where someone pulls out their are to finish off an animal that was hit on the road only to miss a couple times. It wasn't really their fault, I know them and they're decent shots, but not knowing where it's sighted in caused them to miss. Also the optics are mounted on a carry handle so point of impact differs. |
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You can buy stuff in the equipment exchange
Or places like Rainer Arms, Brownells, or anywhere else that has a good deal. |
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