AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/11/2014 7:17:44 PM EDT
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Quick question.... I bought a couple of new receivers and when shipped to my FFL they were registered as rifles. I have not built them up yet but am contemplations a pistol build in the future. Can I use one of the lowers and re-register it or do I have to buy another lower and have it registered as a pistol from the start?
Also, can you start acquiring pistol parts prior to having a registered pistol lower? |
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If your FFL logged stripped lowers as rifles, he's a moron who will be shut down in a matter of time.
Virgin receivers (AR or otherwise) are logged as "firearm"; not handgun or long gun, which is why you have to be 21 to purchase from an FFL. They can be assembled into either configuration. |
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Quoted:
If your FFL logged stripped lowers as rifles, he's a moron who will be shut down in a matter of time. Virgin receivers (AR or otherwise) are logged as "firearm"; not handgun or long gun, which is why you have to be 21 to purchase from an FFL. They can be assembled into either configuration. Does this apply even if AR pistols are not legal in your state? My new receivers were registered as rifles because AR pistols are not legal here. |
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Quoted:
Does this apply even if AR pistols are not legal in your state? My new receivers were registered as rifles because AR pistols are not legal here. Quoted:
Quoted:
If your FFL logged stripped lowers as rifles, he's a moron who will be shut down in a matter of time. Virgin receivers (AR or otherwise) are logged as "firearm"; not handgun or long gun, which is why you have to be 21 to purchase from an FFL. They can be assembled into either configuration. Does this apply even if AR pistols are not legal in your state? My new receivers were registered as rifles because AR pistols are not legal here. If they were listed as rifles on the 4473 then it was done wrong. Whatever Hawaii may register them as (you do have firearms registration there, right?) is a State matter. But, on the 4473, they should properly be listed as 'Other". |
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Quoted:
If your FFL logged stripped lowers as rifles, he's a moron who will be shut down in a matter of time. Virgin receivers (AR or otherwise) are logged as "firearm"; not handgun or long gun, which is why you have to be 21 to purchase from an FFL. They can be assembled into either configuration. I may have just assumed that they were registered as rifles, and just assumed he didn't log them as a pistol. I will have to check with them to see for sure .... I didn't even consider " firearm" or "other". Thanks for the info. |
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Quoted: I may have just assumed that they were registered as rifles, and just assumed he didn't log them as a pistol. I will have to check with them to see for sure .... I didn't even consider " firearm" or "other". Thanks for the info. Quoted: Quoted: If your FFL logged stripped lowers as rifles, he's a moron who will be shut down in a matter of time. Virgin receivers (AR or otherwise) are logged as "firearm"; not handgun or long gun, which is why you have to be 21 to purchase from an FFL. They can be assembled into either configuration. I may have just assumed that they were registered as rifles, and just assumed he didn't log them as a pistol. I will have to check with them to see for sure .... I didn't even consider " firearm" or "other". Thanks for the info. You don't even need to check with them. They should have transfered them as "other", but even if they messed up and did "long gun", it doesn't matter to you. Legally, so long as the receiver has never been assembled into a rifle configuration (barreled and has a stock) as it's first complete configuration, you can do whatever you want with it.
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I guess that was really the answer I was hoping to hear and better understand the circumstances. I appreciate the help and am giving it more consideration.
Just out of curiosity and for arguments sake..... Legally, how would it be determined if it was ever barreled with a rifle length barrel or fitted with a stock? |
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Ok, say you were charged with creating an unregistered SBR, which is what you would have if you built an AR pistol with a barrel shorter than 16" from a receiver that was first configured as a rifle. The burden of proof is on the government, so they would have to prove that the receiver was a rifle first. They would most likely start with the manufacturer, provide them with the lower's serial number and ask how it left the factory. If it was originally sold from the manufacturer as a complete rifle, then you'd be boned. However if they say it was originally sold as a stripper lower, or a complete lower (stock and LPK installed, but no upper), then they'd have to investigate further. If the lower had any previous owners before you, and they bought it through an FFL, they could be tracked down with the infor from the 4473 they filled out at the gunstore, and asked what they did with the lower. If the first owner who did anything with it, admits to building a complete rifle on it before they stripped it back down and sold it to you for your pistol build, then you'd be in trouble. And it goes on and on from there. This is why the safest bet is to buy a "virgin" receiver that you know has no history. Otherwise, if the government wanted to make a case against you, you'd basically have to come out and admit you built it as a rifle first, and then a pistol, or publicly posted some pictures that would prove such. In other words, it's very hard for the government to prove unless the one being charged essentially proves it for them. Then if you want to get really deep into the stupidity of the laws, concider this: Remember that if its built as a rifle first, it is always a rifle and can never become a pistol. If it's first built as a pistol, then it can be reconfigured from there to a rifle, and back to a pistol whenever you want. So, say you're building a 16" rifle from a stripped lower. You install the LPK in the lower, attach the carbine receiver extension, and attach the upper which has a 16" barrel. The only thing you have left to do on your build is slide on the stock. At this point, what you would have is an AR pistol. There is no max barrel length for a pistol, so the 16" barrel makes no difference. With the bare receiver extension, there is no stock, so legally it's not a rifle, it's a pistol. So this firearm's first build configuration is as a pistol. This means you can now slide that stock onto the extension and re-configure it to a rifle if you wish, and then slide it back off and replace the upper with a 10.5" barrel and use it as a pistol if you wish. What it comes down to is, so long as you assemble the parts in the correct order (slide the stock on last), all AR builds could be considered pistols as their 1st build state, and thus able to be reconfigured back and fourth from pistol to rifle and back at will. |
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In California, gun stores are not allowed to register virgin, stripped lowers at "other" on the state side. Therefore ALL are registered as rifles. The only way to get a pistol is to buy an 80% lower or to buy one pre-built from the factory that comes into the gun store as a pistol.
Maybe MN has the same/similar law on the books. |
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Quoted:
In California, gun stores are not allowed to register virgin, stripped lowers at "other" on the state side. Therefore ALL are registered as rifles. The only way to get a pistol is to buy an 80% lower or to buy one pre-built from the factory that comes into the gun store as a pistol. Maybe MN has the same/similar law on the books. They require a permit to purchase a pistol or an "assault " rifle , that might be the issue. PURCHASE A handgun or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon may be sold by a dealer to a person who presents a handgun transferee permit or carry permit, or to a person who has undergone a seven (7) day waiting period where a transfer report has been filed. READ ALL |
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So, say you're building a 16" rifle from a stripped lower. You install the LPK in the lower, attach the carbine receiver extension, and attach the upper which has a 16" barrel. The only thing you have left to do on your build is slide on the stock.
At this point, what you would have is an AR pistol. There is no max barrel length for a pistol, so the 16" barrel makes no difference. With the bare receiver extension, there is no stock, so legally it's not a rifle, it's a pistol. So this firearm's first build configuration is as a pistol. This means you can now slide that stock onto the extension and re-configure it to a rifle if you wish, and then slide it back off and replace the upper with a 10.5" barrel and use it as a pistol if you wish. I'd be very cautious about using a standard carbine RE on a pistol build. There's a reason "pistol" tubes are completely round and often of a different diameter; Constructive possession is almost a non-issue with SBR, but an AR pistol that can accept a standard carbine stock is not something I'd want to get caught with. |
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Quoted: I'd be very cautious about using a standard carbine RE on a pistol build. There's a reason "pistol" tubes are completely round and often of a different diameter; Constructive possession is almost a non-issue with SBR, but an AR pistol that can accept a standard carbine stock is not something I'd want to get caught with. Quoted: So, say you're building a 16" rifle from a stripped lower. You install the LPK in the lower, attach the carbine receiver extension, and attach the upper which has a 16" barrel. The only thing you have left to do on your build is slide on the stock. At this point, what you would have is an AR pistol. There is no max barrel length for a pistol, so the 16" barrel makes no difference. With the bare receiver extension, there is no stock, so legally it's not a rifle, it's a pistol. So this firearm's first build configuration is as a pistol. This means you can now slide that stock onto the extension and re-configure it to a rifle if you wish, and then slide it back off and replace the upper with a 10.5" barrel and use it as a pistol if you wish. I'd be very cautious about using a standard carbine RE on a pistol build. There's a reason "pistol" tubes are completely round and often of a different diameter; Constructive possession is almost a non-issue with SBR, but an AR pistol that can accept a standard carbine stock is not something I'd want to get caught with. It's a non-issue. The ability for "constructive possession" is only applicable if you have a short barreled (under 16") AR pistol with the carbine tube, AND also own in your possession a stock which could be slid onto said tube, and nothing else. However, if you also own the longer barreled upper that allows you to re-configure into a standard rifle configuration, or any number of other rifles that you own that could accept the stock, then there is no issue. This letter is relevant:  And also:    |
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