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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:58:32 PM EDT
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Basics: I'm not a new shooter but am new to ARs (and to this site). I bought a lower and parts kit from a friend. Now I need the rest of the firearm.
Intended use: Groundhogs and squirrels. Most of my groundhog shots should be under 200 yards, but some of the persistent critters are in horse pastures; accuracy is a big issue. Yes, a .223/5.56 is a bit much for squirrels so I need to be able to count on enough accuracy for head shots, possibly out to 100-125 yards. After picking the brains of a few "AR guy" friends, I've come to the conclusion that I probably need to be looking at free-float uppers. Also on their advice, I'm sticking with mil-spec as much as possible. I've done quite a bit of 'net surfing and reading (and, of course, shopping!) but just don't feel like I have enough of an information base to push the "buy" button yet. So I figured I'd give my friends a break from my probably-too-basic frequent questions and ask you guys. I've been looking at PSA, Rock River, and BCM complete uppers (but am having trouble figuring out which of the BCM uppers are free float) and have also been looking at this upper from Ares Armor: http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/aa_BAupper One of my friends thinks the Ares package is pretty nice and would be able to provide the accuracy I need. I'm currently waiting to hear back from an FFL friend to see if he's got any other suggestions, or similar packages at a better price. Anyway, what do you guys think? I'm almost ready to go with the Ares upper but am certainly open to other opinions. Thanks! Disclaimer: Please excuse any first-post gaffes. I tried! |
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this one is much better and will be really accurate at 200. BTW, you don't need to use a FFL. This can be shipped right to your door. |
| For your stated purpose (head shots on squirrels at 125 yards is pretty much a sub-MOA requirement), I'd personally go with an 18"-22" bull barrel. CMMG and DPMS both offer some pretty decent bull barrel uppers that don't break the bank. I'm not a huge DPMS fan, but I have played with their bull barrels uppers, and they are accurate. Armalite M15(T) upper is another option, and they do state MOA accuracy. |
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Quoted:
http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/Upper_Harpe_18_SPR this one is much better and will be really accurate at 200. BTW, you don't need to use a FFL. This can be shipped right to your door. Yes, I know I don't need an FFL for an upper (probably should've clarified on that one  ). He said he'd try to cut me a price break depending on what I decided to get -- that's why I'm waiting to hear from him. I'm cheap!
I'd looked at that 18" upper as well and liked it. I guess I could contact Ares to see when they might have it back in stock. (Patience is NOT one of my -- otherwise numerous -- virtues.) Thanks for the suggestion! |
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when talking about the accuracy youre looking for the important thing is the barrel. the bolt and upper aren't as important, as those are more reliability and looks concerned. a 'free-float' upper has to do with a barrel that is not connected to the hand guard in any way. so for the most part anything where the handguard is not mounted to the front sight post will be free float. when it comes to accuracy in a barrel you're looking for at the twist rate, tighter twist you will want heavier ammo, longer you will be better with lighter ammo (for the most part, that is the rule of thumb)
barrel lining is also 'important', chrome is what most people will say, also look into melonite lining. Bull barrels are good, but not necessary, you will find alot of lightweight barrels that are some of the most accurate. but you're going to be paying alot more for them. for the most part any manufacturer can supply you an MOA upper. head shots on groundhogs at 150 yards will have alot to do with your optics, and the person shooting the rifle. IMHO also, the longer the barrel the more accurate you will be at a longer distance as the bullet will have more velocity upon exiting. also look fora barrel using chromoly steel as it will last longer |
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Hydra-shokz, what's your rationale for recommending that particular upper? I notice that it's roughly $150 more than the Ares upper and I'd have to add another $40 for the charging handle. Is it worth the extra $200 and, if so, why? Thanks! Yes it's worth the extra money. One of the best FF tubes on the market. Solid barrel. One of the best BCG's on the market. One of the best charging handles. BCM is just good solid stuff. It should alo hold it's value we'll if that means anything. Personally, I would build. I would also go with a Surefire MB-556K and a quality 2-stage trigger like the Geissele SSA-E. I would also stick with 16" for your needs. You also need to consider optics. Your budget would be helpful. |
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Dirq, thanks so much for the ARs-for-Idiots explanations! I sort of knew what "free float" was (hand guard not affecting barrel) but there are so many choices (and new terminology) with the AR platform that sometimes it's hard to figure out what's most important. I also appreciate the quick-and-dirty explanation for the rule of thumb on twist rate. I'm thinking I won't need particularly heavy ammo for my intended ranges and targets, so what I've been finding online and what my friends have been telling me (1:7 will work fine) seems correct.
Overall, I think I'd prefer a lighter-weight barrel -- depending on the price. My deer rifle is a Tikka T3 Lite and I chose it for the light weight (just over 6# without scope) and accuracy. I know nothing about barrel composition or linings but have seen chromoly barrels and there seems to be plenty of chrome-lined options. So far, most everyone I've talked to seems to think a 16" barrel would be sufficient for my purposes. I called Ares yesterday and their rep said the 16" upper would suffice instead of waiting for the 18". But since I haven't purchased anything yet I'm still checking out 16"-20" options. As far as optics go, I was planning on adding a Nikon P223 3-9x40 scope. I have Nikon optics on my Tikka and muzzleloader and really like them. Of course, I'm open to other suggestions. |
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Hydra-shokz, I know BCM makes good stuff and I was planning on getting one of their "large" charging handles. Resale value (of BCM vs. others) isn't much of a concern (I generally don't sell.) but I do care about quality, durability, and longevity -- and from what I've read BCM qualifies in all of those categories. I haven't read as much on Ares, but one of my AR-guy friends seemed to be pretty impressed with the package and its constituent parts. I know lots of people would prefer to build, but that's not me at this juncture -- maybe eventually...when I have fewer projects on my plate.
I'm not sure on budget, but I'd really like to stay under $1K and the further underneath that mark, the better. I was initially going to get one of the cheaper upper packages from PSA until I started reading about longer-range accuracy and the merits of free-floating, etc. I haven't tried aftermarket trigger assemblies so have no frame of reference (other than what I read) for determining whether to replace what I've got and, if so, with which option. I know this site seems to recommend the Geissele product. You noted that the BCM upper included one of the "best FF tubes on the market." On what are you basing that statement? I'm not trying to start an argument or question your conclusion, but if there's a site (or a few sites) that provides relatively unbiased reviews please point me in that direction! Or, since I'm still learning the navigation on this site, if the information is already here please tell me where to start reading. Thanks for the information. I really appreciate the explanations and suggestions! I'm still researching everything so all of this is very helpful. |
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Hydra-shokz, I know BCM makes good stuff and I was planning on getting one of their "large" charging handles. Resale value (of BCM vs. others) isn't much of a concern (I generally don't sell.) but I do care about quality, durability, and longevity -- and from what I've read BCM qualifies in all of those categories. I haven't read as much on Ares, but one of my AR-guy friends seemed to be pretty impressed with the package and its constituent parts. I know lots of people would prefer to build, but that's not me at this juncture -- maybe eventually...when I have fewer projects on my plate. I'm not sure on budget, but I'd really like to stay under $1K and the further underneath that mark, the better. I was initially going to get one of the cheaper upper packages from PSA until I started reading about longer-range accuracy and the merits of free-floating, etc. I haven't tried aftermarket trigger assemblies so have no frame of reference (other than what I read) for determining whether to replace what I've got and, if so, with which option. I know this site seems to recommend the Geissele product. You noted that the BCM upper included one of the "best FF tubes on the market." On what are you basing that statement? I'm not trying to start an argument or question your conclusion, but if there's a site (or a few sites) that provides relatively unbiased reviews please point me in that direction! Or, since I'm still learning the navigation on this site, if the information is already here please tell me where to start reading. Thanks for the information. I really appreciate the explanations and suggestions! I'm still researching everything so all of this is very helpful. BCM really did their homework with the KMR. It's super light and has a very strong lock up. I installed one on a friends rifle and was really impressed. I'm also no a BCM fanboy but the KMR is that nice. It also feels good in the hands and allows you to put rails or whatever where you need them. |
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BCM really did their homework with the KMR. It's super light and has a very strong lock up. I installed one on a friends rifle and was really impressed. I'm also no a BCM fanboy but the KMR is that nice. It also feels good in the hands and allows you to put rails or whatever where you need them. Quoted:
Quoted:
Hydra-shokz, I know BCM makes good stuff and I was planning on getting one of their "large" charging handles. Resale value (of BCM vs. others) isn't much of a concern (I generally don't sell.) but I do care about quality, durability, and longevity -- and from what I've read BCM qualifies in all of those categories. I haven't read as much on Ares, but one of my AR-guy friends seemed to be pretty impressed with the package and its constituent parts. I know lots of people would prefer to build, but that's not me at this juncture -- maybe eventually...when I have fewer projects on my plate. I'm not sure on budget, but I'd really like to stay under $1K and the further underneath that mark, the better. I was initially going to get one of the cheaper upper packages from PSA until I started reading about longer-range accuracy and the merits of free-floating, etc. I haven't tried aftermarket trigger assemblies so have no frame of reference (other than what I read) for determining whether to replace what I've got and, if so, with which option. I know this site seems to recommend the Geissele product. You noted that the BCM upper included one of the "best FF tubes on the market." On what are you basing that statement? I'm not trying to start an argument or question your conclusion, but if there's a site (or a few sites) that provides relatively unbiased reviews please point me in that direction! Or, since I'm still learning the navigation on this site, if the information is already here please tell me where to start reading. Thanks for the information. I really appreciate the explanations and suggestions! I'm still researching everything so all of this is very helpful. BCM really did their homework with the KMR. It's super light and has a very strong lock up. I installed one on a friends rifle and was really impressed. I'm also no a BCM fanboy but the KMR is that nice. It also feels good in the hands and allows you to put rails or whatever where you need them. I'm no BCM fan boy, either. However, after shooting a BCM 14.5" KMR carbine at the range the other day, I am willing to become one. Everything in red is exactly the way I feel, too. It's my next upper. |
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