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Posted: 1/25/2014 5:55:16 PM EDT
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"Now if your going to buy 300 black of course you could build it yourself, especially you guys that are hobbiest out there, I use to be that way until I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around. So go with a good company than can build a dedicated system, a upper receiver that you can swap out. Cause you know it's going to be specked and it's going to be quality controlled and its going to work. You can hobby build it yourself but then remember it's just a hobby gun at that point" - Travis Haley
The question I have with this is if I use a quality parts KAC, Noveske, BCM, ect will there really be a difference in reliability and quality? I don't doubt that Travis Haley can build an AR, but in my opinion he is a reputable source and if he doesn't have the confidence to build a rifle to use as a defensive tool should I be concerned with building a rifle for defense? "untill I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around" can anyone elaborate on this statement? This is my first post in ar15forum, Im still trying to figure everything out. Sorry for any ignorance. |
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If you build it right without making mistakes, and use quality parts, there isn't any real advantage to a production rifle. Getting the gas block on right, and getting the barrel torqued correctly are important, but other than that, it really won't make a lot of difference.
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Quoted:
"Now if your going to buy 300 black of course you could build it yourself, especially you guys that are hobbiest out there, I use to be that way until I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around. So go with a good company than can build a dedicated system, a upper receiver that you can swap out. Cause you know it's going to be specked and it's going to be quality controlled and its going to work. You can hobby build it yourself but then remember it's just a hobby gun at that point" - Travis Haley The question I have with this is if I use a quality parts KAC, Noveske, BCM, ect will there really be a difference in reliability and quality? I don't doubt that Travis Haley can build an AR, but in my opinion he is a reputable source and if he doesn't have the confidence to build a rifle to use as a defensive tool should I be concerned with building a rifle for defense? "untill I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around" can anyone elaborate on this statement? This is my first post in ar15forum, Im still trying to figure everything out. Sorry for any ignorance. I agree... if you build it yourself, it's a hobby build unless you're a pro builder. Think about it - when (if) you try to sell it, the buyer doesn't know if you built it well or if you're a hack. And if you ever had to use it in a defensive situation I'm sure the attorney suing you "just might" pick up on the fact that it wasn't built by an established builder and try to use that against you in court. Neither point is meant to imply that your build is not a high quality build. Just saying... no matter how good you are, if you're not doing it professionally then it's a hobby. |
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Quoted:
I agree... if you build it yourself, it's a hobby build unless you're a pro builder. Think about it - when (if) you try to sell it, the buyer doesn't know if you built it well or if you're a hack. And if you ever had to use it in a defensive situation I'm sure the attorney suing you "just might" pick up on the fact that it wasn't built by an established builder and try to use that against you in court. Neither point is meant to imply that your build is not a high quality build. Just saying... no matter how good you are, if you're not doing it professionally then it's a hobby. Quoted:
Quoted:
"Now if your going to buy 300 black of course you could build it yourself, especially you guys that are hobbiest out there, I use to be that way until I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around. So go with a good company than can build a dedicated system, a upper receiver that you can swap out. Cause you know it's going to be specked and it's going to be quality controlled and its going to work. You can hobby build it yourself but then remember it's just a hobby gun at that point" - Travis Haley The question I have with this is if I use a quality parts KAC, Noveske, BCM, ect will there really be a difference in reliability and quality? I don't doubt that Travis Haley can build an AR, but in my opinion he is a reputable source and if he doesn't have the confidence to build a rifle to use as a defensive tool should I be concerned with building a rifle for defense? "untill I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around" can anyone elaborate on this statement? This is my first post in ar15forum, Im still trying to figure everything out. Sorry for any ignorance. I agree... if you build it yourself, it's a hobby build unless you're a pro builder. Think about it - when (if) you try to sell it, the buyer doesn't know if you built it well or if you're a hack. And if you ever had to use it in a defensive situation I'm sure the attorney suing you "just might" pick up on the fact that it wasn't built by an established builder and try to use that against you in court. Neither point is meant to imply that your build is not a high quality build. Just saying... no matter how good you are, if you're not doing it professionally then it's a hobby. "attorney suing you "just might" pick up on the fact that it wasn't built by an established builder and try to use that against you in court." Use the fact against you in what manner? |
| To raise the fact that you built the rifle yourself to raise "questions" in the jury's collective mind. This wouldn't be a criminal case where he has to prove your guilt, it would be a civil case in which he only has to make you look worse than the person you shot, even if the shooting was legally justified. |
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Quoted:
To raise the fact that you built the rifle yourself to raise "questions" in the jury's collective mind. This wouldn't be a criminal case where he has to prove your guilt, it would be a civil case in which he only has to make you look worse than the person you shot, even if the shooting was legally justified. i disagree. the fact that your building your own custom rifle shows you have more knowledge than the average gun owner who may or may not know how to properly handle a weapon. second, i dont think this would even come up. if anything i scumbag lawyer would try to paint somone as a crazy gun nut because he owns several AR's and try to make the point that dont need that unless you a gun nut planning on killing people. not that i think that ( i certainly have more than the average bear) but the pond scum lawyers to paint you in a bad way, that is how its going to go down. the're not gonna give a rats ass if its hobby built or pro built, just one more evil gun to them. now if you were ever involved in a shooting and the weapon itself came into question i.e. a negligent discharge or something and liability comes into play then yes a hobby built gun will def be a factor. for personal use i think the statement he was making is more about the kind of thing where someone who doesnt know what their doing gets in over their head. like doing a trigger job when they dont understand what the're working on and making something dangerous. or more importantly and more common is the home builder who puts on a hammer spring backwards (how many times have we seen that here) and then it fires and suddenly doesnt go bang anymore!!!! |
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At what point does a production rifle turn into a hobby rifle than? If I change the trigger group? bcg? hand guard? Or if i need to charge the barrel for whatever reason does it automatically make it a hobby rifle? The only part that seems like it would cause a lot of problems is the gas block and in that case you can buy a barrel with the gas block already installed.
I guess what I need to do is research mil-spec and mil-standard?? |
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If you build it. And you shoot it, a lot, and it functions just fine with accuracy acceptable to you, what is wrong with that?
If you build it. And you shoot it a few times and put it away and then at some point you really need it to defend yourself or someone else and it malfunctions - whose fault is that? Yours. Even factory built guns fail. If they didn't why do the manufacturers have warranties on them? My failures to function Glock M31 - once - got an empty caught in the ejection port and couldn't chamber the next round 2012 S&W M&P 9MM - trigger/sear failure when brand new, just stopped firing (bought an Apex dcaek kit and fixed that. 2012 Colt 1911 (real 1911) - once - failed to chamber a round where the bullet had been seated crooked and swelled the case 1980 Colt Series 70 - doesn't like "short rounds" like 185 grain HPs or semiwadcutters, get nose up in the ejection port failures to feed (with 3 or 4 different brands of magazines and with a new recoil spring) 2010 S&W 586 - hung up the cylinder after a box of ammo or so when new (cylinder to barrel/forcing cone gap was about 0.015" and crud would build up on the two surfaces while firing) 1981 S&W 686 - firing pin nose bushing had to be replaced when brand new due to hole being too large - allowed primers on .357 magnum ammo to flow back into the hole and hang up the cylinder rotation 1984 M1A - popped the extractor out of the bolt after I put some extra slippery lube on it one day. Hasn't done it since 1980 or 81 M1 Garand - bolt over the 3rd round in the clip and ejected the clip and 8th round when the 7th round fired 2007 ARs I've built 20" HBAR clone - failed to feed/eject/chamber several times during the first range session till we swapped out bolts with the other brand new 20" HBAR clone we'd taken to the range (father/son builds exactly alike). For some reason my bolt functioned well in either gun. My son's bolt functioned fine in my gun but not his. Rubbing a little bit somewhere. Swapping bolts out cured it. 2010 16" carbine - didn't like my reloads and would fail to chamber a few rounds from every magazine. Both the bolt and barrel were bought from the same manufacturer. Headspace was really tight, in spec, but tight. Swapped out bolts with another rifle that was "loose" (in spec but noticeably looser) and no issues since. 2011 Wow, way more issues with factory/professionally built guns that with my AR builds. I trust what I build. I build it. I shoot it. I fix it if its not right. Shame on me if I don't shoot it enough to know it's going to work when I need it. Too many people today allow themselves to be convinced that they are not capable of taking care of their own issues. Maybe some of them are right. Having had cars/trucks worked on by "professionals" I can tell you I've been way more pissed off with the results that when I do it myself - which is why the only thing I've had done professionally is rebuild automatic transmissions and paint'em. And I've not been happy with the paint jobs but I can't yet do that myself and do any better. I think most people would be better off spending more time getting to know there equipment in more detail so they know when its right and they know when something isn't quite right. I know way more about the guts of my AR builds than I know about the SIG 556R I bought. Just my 2 cents....or so. 
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| There was recently a guy who bought an expensive Daniel Defense rifle Smith and Wesson. S&W is considered a "tier 1" rifle. He had so many problems with it that he ended up destroying it (they failed to fix it the first time he sent it in). So yeah, even buying top tier factory made stuff isn't a guarantee. I think the person who said that probably is in the business of selling rifles. And you can't assume that no one knows how to properly build a rifle just because they don't do it for a living. |
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Quoted:
"Now if your going to buy 300 black of course you could build it yourself, especially you guys that are hobbiest out there, I use to be that way until I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around. So go with a good company than can build a dedicated system, a upper receiver that you can swap out. Cause you know it's going to be specked and it's going to be quality controlled and its going to work. You can hobby build it yourself but then remember it's just a hobby gun at that point" - Travis Haley The question I have with this is if I use a quality parts KAC, Noveske, BCM, ect will there really be a difference in reliability and quality? I don't doubt that Travis Haley can build an AR, but in my opinion he is a reputable source and if he doesn't have the confidence to build a rifle to use as a defensive tool should I be concerned with building a rifle for defense? "untill I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around" can anyone elaborate on this statement? This is my first post in ar15forum, Im still trying to figure everything out. Sorry for any ignorance. Who is Travis Haley and why do I care what he thinks? |
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Quoted: There was recently a guy who bought an expensive Daniel Defense rifle. DD is considered a "tier 1" rifle. He had so many problems with it that he ended up destroying it (they failed to fix it the first time he sent it in). So yeah, even buying top tier factory made stuff isn't a guarantee. I think the person who said that probably is in the business of selling rifles. And you can't assume that no one knows how to properly build a rifle just because they don't do it for a living. You aren't confusing that with the Smith & Wesson guy are you? "Bending bullets" ? Just curious, it sounds like his story |
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Quoted: I agree... if you build it yourself, it's a hobby build unless you're a pro builder. Think about it - when (if) you try to sell it, the buyer doesn't know if you built it well or if you're a hack. And if you ever had to use it in a defensive situation I'm sure the attorney suing you "just might" pick up on the fact that it wasn't built by an established builder and try to use that against you in court. Neither point is meant to imply that your build is not a high quality build. Just saying... no matter how good you are, if you're not doing it professionally then it's a hobby. Quoted: Quoted: "Now if your going to buy 300 black of course you could build it yourself, especially you guys that are hobbiest out there, I use to be that way until I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around. So go with a good company than can build a dedicated system, a upper receiver that you can swap out. Cause you know it's going to be specked and it's going to be quality controlled and its going to work. You can hobby build it yourself but then remember it's just a hobby gun at that point" - Travis Haley The question I have with this is if I use a quality parts KAC, Noveske, BCM, ect will there really be a difference in reliability and quality? I don't doubt that Travis Haley can build an AR, but in my opinion he is a reputable source and if he doesn't have the confidence to build a rifle to use as a defensive tool should I be concerned with building a rifle for defense? "untill I started understanding what mil-spec and mil-standard and what a production rifle was based around" can anyone elaborate on this statement? This is my first post in ar15forum, Im still trying to figure everything out. Sorry for any ignorance. I agree... if you build it yourself, it's a hobby build unless you're a pro builder. Think about it - when (if) you try to sell it, the buyer doesn't know if you built it well or if you're a hack. And if you ever had to use it in a defensive situation I'm sure the attorney suing you "just might" pick up on the fact that it wasn't built by an established builder and try to use that against you in court. Neither point is meant to imply that your build is not a high quality build. Just saying... no matter how good you are, if you're not doing it professionally then it's a hobby. It is a hobby for me, and I have assembled several for my collection out of quality parts. The reliability is for me to worry about, and is my home defense situation. I would trust my life to them, and those of my family. What EXACTLY do I need to know besides checking my headspace properly??? The quality part that I purchased were already MPI'd etc...the torque specs are followed for barrel nuts, and castle nuts. Now, what is this other crap you throwing out there with the attorney? |
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Quoted:
You aren't confusing that with the Smith & Wesson guy are you? "Bending bullets" ? Just curious, it sounds like his story Quoted:
Quoted:
There was recently a guy who bought an expensive Daniel Defense rifle. DD is considered a "tier 1" rifle. He had so many problems with it that he ended up destroying it (they failed to fix it the first time he sent it in). So yeah, even buying top tier factory made stuff isn't a guarantee. I think the person who said that probably is in the business of selling rifles. And you can't assume that no one knows how to properly build a rifle just because they don't do it for a living. You aren't confusing that with the Smith & Wesson guy are you? "Bending bullets" ? Just curious, it sounds like his story Yes, your right, I made a mistake. |
| What bolt would you recommend? BCM? only reason I asked about the KAC is because I am working on a Novekse/KAC build and am using a Noveske ss barrel and would like to keep it all Noveske/KAC. If someone really wanted to drop the coin on it would it work with KAC's bolt design? |
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What bolt would you recommend? BCM? only reason I asked about the KAC is because I am working on a Novekse/KAC build and am using a Noveske ss barrel and would like to keep it all Noveske/KAC. If someone really wanted to drop the coin on it would it work with KAC's bolt design? Spikes, BCM, LMT (non-enhanced), Daniel Defense. Even Rock River would probably be fine. MPI and HPT are nice things to have in the bolt. Umbrella Corp has a new bolt coming out but not much feedback on it yet. It's milspec. The KAC bolt is proprietary and will not work with Noveske. |
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