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Posted: 10/30/2013 6:55:00 PM EDT
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I’m building my first AR and I have a question about staking. I did a search in the forum for staking and LocTite and didn’t come up with anything. If there is a thread on this, I’d be happy to go and look it up.
I was wondering if using Loctite 242 (Red) would be adequate for the buffer receiver nut. From what I’ve read, staking was a sure way to keep a nut or bolt from coming loose. But I was wondering if these thread locking compounds were not around back when the AR was invented? If not maybe staking was the only way to assure nuts and bolts would not back off. I’ve used the Loctite products for many of my engine building projects and they do a very good job of keeping internal fasteners of a high performance engine from backing off. |
| I would stake the castle nut. I definitely wouldn't red loctite it. If you need to service the rifle for any reason and you red loctite the castle nut, you won't be getting it off easily... you could potentially ruin your castle nut, buffer tube, or even the lower receiver trying to get it off. |
| def stake. small center punch and give a little tap. doesnt take much. and only do it in one spot. dont go all around hitting every spot where there is a cutout. one small stake is more than enough to hold it and you wont bugger it up. never had one come loose with this method. but i have a few that i didnt bother to stake (like the full auto one i just built a while back) and none of those have ever come loose either and i have shot matches with those and just toss them on the ground or throw them in the back of the truck bed from a few feet away. |
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Never use red locktite on any firearm IMO. Nothing stronger than blue should ever be used and then only very sparingly.
On the castle nut, buffer tube, I never use any locking on them. Since my rifles will never see serious use I don't even bother to stake them. I am always changing things around for one reason or another so staking makes no since to me for my uses. I snug down the castle nuts or buffer tube good and tight and call it a day and I have yet to have one come loose on me. Unless you are seriously using this in extreme conditions friction is good enough, but if you must lock it down because your life depends on it, stake it. |
| I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates. |
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Stake.
I started using the Hammerhead Rifle Tool for obnoxious castle nuts that came to me from the factory with blue Loctite on them when someone wanted an endplate installed that allows sling use. Often times they wouldn't be staked from the factory either, and I'd do my work, tighten it back down, and stake it. Don't use blue. |
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I tighten the nut and call it a day. Never had one come loose. Yeah I know, blasphemy ^ this... I just use a little dab of grease and tighten that sucker up. Never had one come loose. If I was going to use Loc-Tite or something, I would use Vibra-Tite. I see no reason to stake a civilian owned semi-auto. YMMV. |
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I tighten the nut and call it a day. Never had one come loose. Yeah I know, blasphemy OP I'd just stake it if you are worried about it. This. If you put the lower on a magwell viseblock in a vise and tighten the castle nut down with the correct wrench you wont find it coming loose. Ive never staked, or used loctite, and havent had one loosen up. I actually just removed one a few days ago and had a hell of a time breaking it loose. |
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for staking castle nuts, I use a spring loaded center punch. easy as hell. Quoted:
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Would you guys think it would be ok to use loctite blue on the gas key bolts? for staking castle nuts, I use a spring loaded center punch. easy as hell. +1 I tried to get away with no staking before but it came loose after a few hundred rounds. I use a spring loaded center punch makes it super easy to unstake it too. |
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I tighten the nut and call it a day. Never had one come loose. Yeah I know, blasphemy OP I'd just stake it if you are worried about it. Not blasphemy, just very reasonable. Staking is overkill, so is loctite for 90% of the people on here. These are people that are more likely to change their stocks than fire the gun. If it is your SHTF gun, or you take it to war/duty, then by all means, I would recommend staking it. Otherwise, just tighten it. |
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Quoted: I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates.  |
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I did an experiment and used blue loctite specifically instead of staking on a carbine. I'm not a very high volume shooter, it probably sees about 500 rounds per year though so it does get out. It has lasted for about 4 years but I noticed at a 2-gun match about two months ago that it was loose (very loose). The carbine still functioned fine, I mean even if the entire thing came off, the tube would have had to unscrew as well for anything to come apart. I didn't have a castle-nut wrench on me at the match so I snugged it up as tight as I could by hand and it stayed put through the match. It has since had the loctite re-applied and has also been staked... While it isn't a true test of the method it was enough for me to want to stake it in place. The cost of a end-plate is minimal and I will most likely never take it off anyway. For me I would rather know that the castle nut isn't going anywhere than try to not "ruin" it by staking... For you guys that use neither, are you tightening to a specific torque-value or just giving it the old gorilla treatment? |
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Quoted: What other stuff on an AR is loctited? The correct answer is that nothing on an AR is loctited. Expensive end plates? Yeah, at $5 each that can be expensive if you are using up 100 of them. Quoted: Quoted: I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates. I use it to secure the screws on optics mounts and rails but that is about it. I have heard that some folks put them on gas-key screws but I just give them a good staking. Staking them has worked for me so far and while I'm no chemist I would worry about that stuff melting and fouling up my BCG somehow... |
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Quoted: I use it to secure the screws on optics mounts and rails but that is about it. I have heard that some folks put them on gas-key screws but I just give them a good staking. Staking them has worked for me so far and while I'm no chemist I would worry about that stuff melting and fouling up my BCG somehow... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates. I use it to secure the screws on optics mounts and rails but that is about it. I have heard that some folks put them on gas-key screws but I just give them a good staking. Staking them has worked for me so far and while I'm no chemist I would worry about that stuff melting and fouling up my BCG somehow... |
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What other stuff on an AR is loctited? The correct answer is that nothing on an AR is loctited. Expensive end plates? Yeah, at $5 each that can be expensive if you are using up 100 of them. Quoted:
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I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates. Lots of forends use loctite. Virtually every optic mount uses it. I don't have plain Jane AR rifles anymore so...for me...they all have it. Let me know how your greased scope rings work. All the ones worth a damn come with loctite....... I also use noveske end plates so its 30 a pop. Don't worry about my rifles, I know they're fine. Please keep your lubed scope rings to yourself
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Quoted: Lots of forends use loctite. Virtually every optic mount uses it. I don't have plain Jane AR rifles anymore so...for me...they all have it. Let me know how your greased scope rings work. All the ones worth a damn come with loctite....... I also use noveske end plates so its 30 a pop. Don't worry about my rifles, I know they're fine. Please keep your lubed scope rings to yourself Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates. Lots of forends use loctite. Virtually every optic mount uses it. I don't have plain Jane AR rifles anymore so...for me...they all have it. Let me know how your greased scope rings work. All the ones worth a damn come with loctite....... I also use noveske end plates so its 30 a pop. Don't worry about my rifles, I know they're fine. Please keep your lubed scope rings to yourself Have you ever assembled an engine or any other mechanical assembly? It seems as though your understanding of this subject is very limited. I will concede that I forgot about the use of loctite on several brands of forends.
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I've got LaRue mounts and rings on all of my scoped AR's, 12 of them. Screws were lubed with assembly lube and torqued to 25 inch pounds. Thousands of rounds latter and no issues. Have you ever assembled an engine or any other mechanical assembly? It seems as though your understanding of this subject is very limited. I will concede that I forgot about the use of loctite on several brands of forends. Quoted:
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I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates. Lots of forends use loctite. Virtually every optic mount uses it. I don't have plain Jane AR rifles anymore so...for me...they all have it. Let me know how your greased scope rings work. All the ones worth a damn come with loctite....... I also use noveske end plates so its 30 a pop. Don't worry about my rifles, I know they're fine. Please keep your lubed scope rings to yourself Have you ever assembled an engine or any other mechanical assembly? It seems as though your understanding of this subject is very limited. I will concede that I forgot about the use of loctite on several brands of forends. Nope but I've shot a lot of rifles and had a lot of stuff that wasn't loctited come loose. I'll stick to manufacturer suggestions and every single one of them advises loctite. Sorry if I don't take anonymous internet guys advice over the engineers at Larue, KAC, Bobro, ADM, etc. Its worked for me and plenty other people that use their gear for work, and everyone who has btdt will agree. Maybe my knowledge when compared to your ability to build an engine is limited, but I've worked on guns for a very long time and mine have worked beautifully across a wide range of conditions, because I listen to instructions, de grease and loctite screws with a quality wrench. Top to bottom, left to right. Just as instructed by the guys who make the gear. You can relax your ego, stud. |
| I choose loctite. I loctive the whole buffer tube and lower threads. As well as the castle nut. Let's me easily re-used the castle nut (I know they're cheap). One word of advice! Make sure loctite does not spill into the buffer detent hole. Happened to me once.. took a lot to get it out. If you do it right, you're good. |
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Quoted: I won't even use Loc-Tite on my scope ring screws anymore.  Grease and the proper torque value is that is required. But if ya'll dig fucking Loc-Tite all over your shit, rock on!!! Why wouldn't you use Loctite? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass or imply that you or aardvark_ratnick don't know your way around a rifle but I really don't understand your comments and I'm curious. Is there a downside to using the stuff that I'm not aware of? When working with fore-ends and optic mounts I torque to recommended values and use loctite. It seems like cheep insurance against a screw backing out, especially when a lot of manufacturers provide a disposable vial of the stuff with their products. |
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Quoted: Nope but I've shot a lot of rifles and had a lot of stuff that wasn't loctited come loose. I'll stick to manufacturer suggestions and every single one of them advises loctite. Sorry if I don't take anonymous internet guys advice over the engineers at Larue, KAC, Bobro, ADM, etc. Its worked for me and plenty other people that use their gear for work, and everyone who has btdt will agree. Maybe my knowledge when compared to your ability to build an engine is limited, but I've worked on guns for a very long time and mine have worked beautifully across a wide range of conditions, because I listen to instructions, de grease and loctite screws with a quality wrench. Top to bottom, left to right. Just as instructed by the guys who make the gear. You can relax your ego, stud. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I used to stake, but just started using loctite. 3 dabs of blue, and thats it. Considering how much other stuff on a rifle is secured using loc-tite, I figure the castle nut can be too, and this allows me to swap stuff around without having busted stakes all over my expensive end plates. Lots of forends use loctite. Virtually every optic mount uses it. I don't have plain Jane AR rifles anymore so...for me...they all have it. Let me know how your greased scope rings work. All the ones worth a damn come with loctite....... I also use noveske end plates so its 30 a pop. Don't worry about my rifles, I know they're fine. Please keep your lubed scope rings to yourself Have you ever assembled an engine or any other mechanical assembly? It seems as though your understanding of this subject is very limited. I will concede that I forgot about the use of loctite on several brands of forends. Nope but I've shot a lot of rifles and had a lot of stuff that wasn't loctited come loose. I'll stick to manufacturer suggestions and every single one of them advises loctite. Sorry if I don't take anonymous internet guys advice over the engineers at Larue, KAC, Bobro, ADM, etc. Its worked for me and plenty other people that use their gear for work, and everyone who has btdt will agree. Maybe my knowledge when compared to your ability to build an engine is limited, but I've worked on guns for a very long time and mine have worked beautifully across a wide range of conditions, because I listen to instructions, de grease and loctite screws with a quality wrench. Top to bottom, left to right. Just as instructed by the guys who make the gear. You can relax your ego, stud. Worth noting is that for a proper torque value to be achieved a proper lubricant must be used on the threads. Loctite is not a proper lubricant. |
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I'm still wondering if there is a reason NOT to use loctite. I understand that it may not be necessary but is there a reason not to use it? Loctite is a torque preserver. It holds threaded fastners to whatever torque you apply to it and requires a *lot* of force to remove once it sets. You can actually destroy loctited fasteners by either popping the head off of hex or torx type screws or stripping slotted or phillips head screws. You can cause damage to your upper or lower if you have to apply excessive torque to remove, for example, loctited barrel nuts or receiver extension locking nuts (either the CAR style or castle nuts). I'm not saying that you will *always* damage things but excessive use of loctite will increase the likelyhood. In general I use loctite only where it is specified instructions with a few exceptions. I do tend to use it on sight and optic screws. I also only run KAC URX rails and it is called for on the rail and locking nut on it. Otherwise, I use moly lube -- particularly on non-URX barrel nuts and on the receiver extension. I use rocksett on gas block set screws and other high temperature applications. There is *never* a place for red loctite on an AR-15. Only use loctite 242 (blue) or weaker (green or purple) but *never* use red loctite on anything you ever want to disassemble. YMMV |
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I would stake the castle nut. I definitely wouldn't red loctite it. If you need to service the rifle for any reason and you red loctite the castle nut, you won't be getting it off easily... you could potentially ruin your castle nut, buffer tube, or even the lower receiver trying to get it off. THIS! |
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Quoted: Loctite is a torque preserver. It holds threaded fastners to whatever torque you apply to it and requires a *lot* of force to remove once it sets. You can actually destroy loctited fasteners by either popping the head off of hex or torx type screws or stripping slotted or phillips head screws. You can cause damage to your upper or lower if you have to apply excessive torque to remove, for example, loctited barrel nuts or receiver extension locking nuts (either the CAR style or castle nuts). I'm not saying that you will *always* damage things but excessive use of loctite will increase the likelyhood. In general I use loctite only where it is specified instructions with a few exceptions. I do tend to use it on sight and optic screws. I also only run KAC URX rails and it is called for on the rail and locking nut on it. Otherwise, I use moly lube -- particularly on non-URX barrel nuts and on the receiver extension. I use rocksett on gas block set screws and other high temperature applications. There is *never* a place for red loctite on an AR-15. Only use loctite 242 (blue) or weaker (green or purple) but *never* use red loctite on anything you ever want to disassemble. YMMV Quoted: Quoted: I'm still wondering if there is a reason NOT to use loctite. I understand that it may not be necessary but is there a reason not to use it? Loctite is a torque preserver. It holds threaded fastners to whatever torque you apply to it and requires a *lot* of force to remove once it sets. You can actually destroy loctited fasteners by either popping the head off of hex or torx type screws or stripping slotted or phillips head screws. You can cause damage to your upper or lower if you have to apply excessive torque to remove, for example, loctited barrel nuts or receiver extension locking nuts (either the CAR style or castle nuts). I'm not saying that you will *always* damage things but excessive use of loctite will increase the likelyhood. In general I use loctite only where it is specified instructions with a few exceptions. I do tend to use it on sight and optic screws. I also only run KAC URX rails and it is called for on the rail and locking nut on it. Otherwise, I use moly lube -- particularly on non-URX barrel nuts and on the receiver extension. I use rocksett on gas block set screws and other high temperature applications. There is *never* a place for red loctite on an AR-15. Only use loctite 242 (blue) or weaker (green or purple) but *never* use red loctite on anything you ever want to disassemble. YMMV Thanks for the explanation. I figured that there must be more to it than just the sentiment that one shouldn't have to use it. I use the blue variety and only a drop of it. I have found that so far all of the screws that I have needed to take out are removable with a bit more force than usual. I have a tube of the red variety as well but haven't used any as I have heard that it usually requires heat to remove. |
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