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Posted: 5/1/2012 4:16:51 PM EDT
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Gentlemen,
I will gladly take a lashing if this is in the wrong place. I get here and start reading and I'm like a dog watching squirrels .. off every which where. I am former Army, M16A1 era, and would dearly love to put together my own M16-ish rifle. Where does a guy start? I read a few threads here and know barely enough to realize I need to decide upon a lower receiver, but in this thread I learned (I think) that I was just supposed to pick the one with engraving I wanted because they are all the same? (greatly paraphrased of course) Are there books that are a good place to start? I have Walt Kuleck's books on the 1911 and like those okay. Any other recommendations? |
| Watch videos on youtube or on the Brownells website for info on how to build. As far as lowers, there are several companies that make the forgings and then the various brands finish them and apply their rollmark. Try a complete 20" upper from Palmetto State and possibly get a lower parts build kit from them as well. That should be a good starting point. |
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Quoted:
Gentlemen, I will gladly take a lashing if this is in the wrong place. I get here and start reading and I'm like a dog watching squirrels .. off every which where. I am former Army, M16A1 era, and would dearly love to put together my own M16-ish rifle. Where does a guy start? I read a few threads here and know barely enough to realize I need to decide upon a lower receiver, but in this thread I learned (I think) that I was just supposed to pick the one with engraving I wanted because they are all the same? (greatly paraphrased of course) Are there books that are a good place to start? I have Walt Kuleck's books on the 1911 and like those okay. Any other recommendations? Not sure on the books...there is a current thread on that, as a matter of fact. Couple of things... Receivers : NoDak Spud Barrel : Green Mountain General parts : Palmetto State Armory Sub Forum: A2 Builds and M16 Retro Forum.....here at AR15.com |
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I'm like you LBussy. I was in the Marines during the transition (for my unit anyway) going from the A1 to the A2. Believe it or not, I built an A2 clone using a lower I picked up from Spikes Tactical, but all the other stuff I got from the equipment exchange. I wanted to see how much it would cost me, and I was able to put together a service rifle for under $500.
It took a little while searching the EE board, but since most guys want a flat top rifle, getting an A2 upper is not all that hard. I was able to get a Colt upper along with a Colt HBAR barrel that I had turned down to the govt. profile just to save some weight. I was like you, hoping to find a book somewhere that I could learn about how the rifle would go together, but like the guys say above, the videos that are out there are more helpful. You won't go wrong with asking questions here, everyone that I have dealt with have been great. |
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Thanks for the responses.
The actual "put it together" part I'm not terribly concerned about. Coming out of the field I used to lock myself in my room (to avoid my second article 15 for disasembling the weapon) and take it ALL the way down to get it clean. I don't know if the rest of you had the same kind of knucklehead armorer we had but this yum-yum used white gloves. Anyway, the lower and barrel and all that is pretty easy for me (or at least it was 25 years ago). I'm more looking for something to describe what the differences are in the current parts so I can choose the right/right for me ones. I've found lowers from $79 all the way up to $250 and not knowing what the difference is there's little to make me want the expensive ones, ya know? |
Hey there. Welcome to ARF and congrats on your upcoming build. As far as lowers go, all decent lowers are going to be about the same. The major differences, and I hope (Know  ) someone will correct me if I am wrong, are going to be how the lower began life. Most are either one of two ways...forged or billet. I tend to avoid billet just because of the outlandish price...I'm a family guy on a budget after all. So let's talk about Forged lowers. The forged lowers all start life in one of a few forges and then get purchased by the companies that finish them. A Spikes lower may have come from the same litter as a Precision Aero lower which might be a brother to a Stag lower. Usually, IIRC, there isn't really a way to tell which forge a lower blank started life in. Then, with the forged lowers, it's simply a matter of a few details for me. 1.) Asthetics...is there a logo or roll mark that I like or think looks "cool". 2.) Machining....some companies farm out the machining of their lowers, and some do it in house. To me this means 2 lowers might have come from the same forge, been machined at the same finishers, but just have a different "label". At that point I merely compare price. Is the "name" worth the extra $$ to me personally. and 3.) Availability...how much of a hurry am I in right now for this build? AIMSurplus sells Spikes blemished lowers for $69....you have to sign up for an email alert and wait for them usually, but it is well worth the wait. If I don't want to wait, it comes down to who has a cheap lower in stock right now. A hidden gem in my opinion is the LRB lowers at Wideners. I think they are $65 and usually always in stock. LRB make some really nice forged M14 receivers and I've heard decent things about their AR receivers. Another option from AIMSurplus.com is the SurplusArms lowers for $59. Palmetto State armory has their lowers for $79 I believe. I guess this has been pretty long winded, but it all boils down to my $.02 which is most forged lowers are the same, so if the name doesn't matter to you, find a good deal and buy 2 or 3.....TRUST ME....once you build the first one....it all goes bad from there. Hope I've lead you in the right direction.
DC |
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^ ^ ^ Good post.
Most use forged uppers & lowers. Billet uppers and lowers are machined completely out of a solid piece of aluminum. They are typically precision machined, excellent quality, usually weigh a bit more (if I recall correctly) and usually more expensive. There are billet upper receivers too which mate with the lower receiver flawlessly. There are also billet monolithic upper receivers that extend all the way out to create a free float hand guard. Examples shown below: Billet Monolithic Upper Receiver:  
Now a days most people use A3 (flat top) upper receivers due to their versatility. There is a huge variety of optics and backup sights that can be attached. You could even attach a removable carry handle while still having the option to remove it and install anything you want. The biggest difference in parts is how they were made for lack of better terms. For instance JP Rifles and quite a few other companies make heavy duty special purpose parts for performance & completion purposes, etc… Palmetto State Armory, just one example, for the most part supplies general purpose parts, some upgrade parts and are usually less expensive. There are a lot of common brands like Rock River Arms, Bushmaster, DPMS and quite a few others. Each manufacturer supplies parts/replacement parts. Many vendors carry those parts too so they are usually readily available. I personally prefer to use a A3 (flat top) upper, a free float barrel and free float hand guard. Most of the time I use front & rear flip backup sights and an optic whether a red dot or magnified. |
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Welcome, I started with the M16A1 too way back when! As was stated, a good place to start is to grab up a stripped forged aluminum AR-15 lower at your local gun shop if they have any, or can get you one fairly quick. There's a pre-election gun buying panic going on right now, so don't be surprised if lowers are hard to find. They are pretty much all the same except for the roll-mark. Look for a 5.56 cal., or maybe a "Multi". There are some that come in 9mm and 7.62X39 calibers also, but are fairly hard to find. The lower is the only part you MUST obtain from a licensed gun dealer. All the rest of the AR's parts you can obtain on-line and have shipped directly to your house. With a completed lower you can match-up a variety of AR uppers. The brand names don't have to be the same between the upper and lower. AR-10 type AR's in .308 cal. are a whole separate animal, the parts are generally not interchangeable between the AR-15's.
After getting a stripped lower, you'll need a LPK (Lower Parts Kit), a stock & buffer kit (some call them receiver extensions) of your liking and some tools like a armourer's tool and a lower vice block. Most of the other tools needed are normal household type things like a hammer and needle-nose pliers. If you don't already have any punches, you may need some of those too. There is a host of videos and written info. available on how to assemble an AR lower. It's fairly easy with only a limited amount of skill required. The easiest way to complete your AR after putting together your lower is to buy a "complete upper" from a variety of suppliers available. Your personal budget will determine which way you want to go. They start around $400 and go to the sky from there. Be careful to make sure you are buying the whole thing including a complete bolt assembly, charging handle and foregrips. Some suppliers leave those off and fool you with their really low prices. After you add on all the things you need to be complete, then it's not such a great deal. 16" Mid-lengths are a popular choice these days. Lightweight barrels are also all the rage. Once you get your upper, mating it to your lower takes about 15 seconds and then all you'll need is sights (or optics if desired), magazines and lots of ammo to begin shooting and enjoying your new AR. If you bought an A2 style upper with a fixed carry handle and the A2 style fixed front sights, you don't even have to worry about sights or optics, just mag's. & ammo. Good luck with your new AR quest, just finding parts available is going to be a big challenge right now with all the big panic going on. 
ETA: Despite the temptation because of the low prices, if I were you I woud avoid buying any of the plastic (composite?) AR parts available these days. Aluminum and steel will get you a much better AR IMO. |
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Quoted:
I'm more looking for something to describe what the differences are in the current parts so I can choose the right/right for me ones. I've found lowers from $79 all the way up to $250 and not knowing what the difference is there's little to make me want the expensive ones, ya know? Retro Black Rifle NoDak Spud |
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Quoted:
Gentlemen, I will gladly take a lashing if this is in the wrong place. I get here and start reading and I'm like a dog watching squirrels .. off every which where. I am former Army, M16A1 era, and would dearly love to put together my own M16-ish rifle. Where does a guy start? I read a few threads here and know barely enough to realize I need to decide upon a lower receiver, but in this thread I learned (I think) that I was just supposed to pick the one with engraving I wanted because they are all the same? (greatly paraphrased of course) Are there books that are a good place to start? I have Walt Kuleck's books on the 1911 and like those okay. Any other recommendations? LBussy, welcome to the forum. BTW I am one of the grumpy ones!! Kulek has two great books on the AR. The Owners Guide is a bit dated, but you should buy the Complete Assembly Guide. A wealth of info. Check out the tacked threads at the top of each forum, lots to read and lots to learn. Way back when I bought a H-Bar Colt sporter, then a Bushy and finally started to build my own. I was glad I bought complete rifles to begin with as I learned the platform and realized what I wanted in my own rifle. I lean towards the KISS rifles. With a complete rifle you start shooting immediately, and you can customize as you go. A number of the new owners on the site go overboard trying to out do the next guy. Spend you money where it will help your accuracy and shooting. You need to determine what purpose the rifle will serve...Good Luck and once again, welcome |
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Thanks gents (and NCO's!). Learning a lot here every day - which explains whi I registered and then waited a while before posting.
The links are all great, expecially the http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ website. I never payed much attention to all the little nooks and crannies on my weapons but I'll bet my fingers remember how it's supposed to feel. Anyway, that website is great for demonstrating the differences between the M16 models. Is there a similar site for the M4? |
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