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Posted: 11/28/2011 10:20:37 AM EDT
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I have a BM M4 that I recently separated into a BM lower and upper. I had to change the lower to a Smith so that it would be complaint with my department's AR program (pretty stupid huh?)
My problem is this, I have the BM flat top with a Magpul MBUS2 rear sight that I cannot get to zero. It is consistently low on paper. I replaced the carry handle and it shot just fine. I contacted Magpul and they sent me a new rear sight to see if there was a defect in the original. I looked at me FSB and it is not "F" marked anywhere that I can see, which seems strange since it came with a flat top rifle...? I haven't gotten a chance to re-shoot the new sight yet, but i am not too optimistic about it... I want to go with a DD free float rail system. I am going to have to replace the gas block/FSB but because this is a 14.5 barrel with a pinned welded break (Izzy), I need to cut it off and replace it. I tried searching the web and here for Break/Hider suggestions for replacing the Izzy, but I am fairly lost in the world of advertising and idiot videos to make a smart decision. I was looking at the Battlecomps and the SureFire's, but they are way too expensive; everyone says the Vortex hiders have an annoying "ring" to them, and the Troy Claymore and Medieval's people say are way too loud (this is going to be a Patrol Rifle)... So I'm lost. Please help... Joseph Humphrey |
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My problem is this, I have the BM flat top with a Magpul MBUS2 rear sight that I cannot get to zero. It is consistently low on paper.
My understanding is Bushmaster has some different heights than most other manufacturers. Perhaps you could contact them on the sight issue. ––––-How low at 25 meters? Is the sight post in fact bottomed out? Simple solution is to aim at target. Mark sight post at the level the bullet is hitting. File the sight to that level and apply cold blue if the front sight is just a little too tall this should not be a problem. You may want to make sure there isn't an obstruction in the bottom of the front sight post first. From BM website: Colt A3 Removable Carry Handle Sights are taller than A1& A2 Rear Sights, and require an .040” taller Front Sight Post. Also for use with Swan Sleeves & ARMS #40 sight Would A1/A2 work? I replaced the carry handle and it shot just fine. Could be commercial vs milspec difference I'm not sure about differences. I contacted Magpul and they sent me a new rear sight to see if there was a defect in the original. I looked at me FSB and it is not "F" marked anywhere that I can see, which seems strange since it came with a flat top rifle...? I haven't gotten a chance to re-shoot the new sight yet, but i am not too optimistic about it... FSB can be ground down/recontoured as a low profile gas block and use BM front sight ![]()
I want to go with a DD free float rail system. I am going to have to replace the gas block/FSB but because this is a 14.5 barrel with a pinned welded break (Izzy), I need to cut it off and replace it. –––––––––––––– There are milspec rail systems that will replace the original forearm. I'm not sure but I thought there was one out there that was a freefloat system that would plug in to the rear mount without modifcation of the upper. DD Omega It's a two-piece free float that requires no mods to install. posted hereHERE
I tried searching the web and here for Break/Hider suggestions for replacing the Izzy, but I am fairly lost in the world of advertising and idiot videos to make a smart decision. I was looking at the Battlecomps and the SureFire's, but they are way too expensive; everyone says the Vortex hiders have an annoying "ring" to them, and the Troy Claymore and Medieval's people say are way too loud (this is going to be a Patrol Rifle)... You could grind down the front to a lowprofile block and put a rifle length rail on it if it would clear. My rifle does that. I purchased it on Gunbroker. Someone else built it with reprofiled front sight and extra long rail systom compatible with 203 attahment. I'm not a gun smith though just trying to help. |
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Consistently low? Bushmaster carbines, in general, flattop or not, don't come with proper height FSBs or FSPs. That being said, your rifle should fail to zero high, not low, if this was the issue. What range / zeroing procedure are you using? ~Augee All of mine came with the right FSP/FSBs. |
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Consistently low? Bushmaster carbines, in general, flattop or not, don't come with proper height FSBs or FSPs. That being said, your rifle should fail to zero high, not low, if this was the issue. What range / zeroing procedure are you using? ~Augee All of mine came with the right FSP/FSBs. That's nice. In general, Bushmaster carbines do not come with either proper "F" marked FSBs - or .040 taller front sight posts. Some do/have. Most do not. Even if the more recent Bushmaster carbines have 100% switched to the correct standard - the vast majority of Bushmaster carbines do not have properly FSB/FSP combinations and it's something to check before buying if you're concerned about it. ~Augee |
| I donno, I remember seeing a post a long time ago about bushmasters sights being marked differently to reflect the taller sight. What says it HAS to be marked with an F? In your first post you said they dont come with the right sights. Not the right markings on the sights. Just sayin... |
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I donno, I remember seeing a post a long time ago about bushmasters sights being marked differently to reflect the taller sight. What says it HAS to be marked with an F? In your first post you said they dont come with the right sights. Not the right markings on the sights. Just sayin... Some Bushmasters have been spec'ed by purchasers to have the proper components. When Colt developed the carbine back in the sixties, they found that a small percentage (less than 20%) of carbines could not be zeroed properly due to the reduced sight radius. Their solution at the time was to issue carbines with taller front sight posts. When the flattop M16A4 receiver was developed, the upper receiver had to be thickened as well, because Dick Swan was reportedly able to stick a sharpened pencil through the thin aluminum of the top rail. Coupled with the large scale adoption of the M16A4 and the M4 flattop rifles, Colt switched from taller front sight posts to new FSBs with the front sight pocket .040" higher and marked them as "F" to designate "flattop." This was primarily to simply the military supply system where "bench stock" of spare parts are used, meaning spare parts are pulled from a bin. It is easier to simply have one front sight post in the inventory, than two different ones to install since the taper pinned FSB is semi-permanent to the barrel and not usually removed. Bushmaster's carbines and flattops do not follow this convention of using the .040 higher front sight as it would mean they would have to complicate *their* manufacturing process to install the proper FSBs and/or FSPs. Rather they installed rifle FSBs and front sight posts on all of their offerings and instead chose to drop the rear sight base on the detachable carry handle. No modifications were made to their fixed carry handle carbines, however. What this means is that their fixed carry handle carbines have a built in failure rate. Approximately 15% of those carbines cannot be properly zeroed from the factory. They do, however sell a .040 taller front sight post. Bushmaster calculates, probably accurately, that the failure rate is low enough, and most users don't shoot enough and don't care enough that they can slime on by without addressing this issue. The few customers who do contact them about it are invited to purchase a .040 taller front sight post, or if they complain more publically, Bushmaster will be "gracious" enough to send them a free taller FSP. It's just good business in their eyes, if less than 15% of the rifles fail, and only a small percentage of those users will actually bother to complain, they can send out quite a few free FSPs before it approaches the cost of sourcing, purchasing, and assembling with proper components from the first place. Their flattops then, might have a backwards solution with their proprietary detachable carry handle, however, a great many people who purchase flattops purchase them with the expectation of installing an aftermarket rear sight. The problem with this is that almost all aftermarket front sights are calibrated for military height front sights - i.e. using the "F" marked FSB. Meaning that the innate failure rate has re-appeared. Again, the risk is taken that the majority of people who install rear flip ups probably do not even bother to properly zero them - and only a small percentage of rifles fail - again, they save money by not correcting their rifles, and simply addressing individual issues as they pop up. In other words - Bushmaster rifles typically *do not* come with the right front sight height, but since they consider the failure rate "acceptable" they do nothing about it even though they know it's an issue. Again, as a business, can I say this is a bad decision on their part? Perhaps not. But it makes you wonder if a 15% failure to zero rate is considered acceptable, what other parts do they apply the same logic and cost cutting procedures to? As a counter-example, LMT rifles do not come with "F" marked FSBs, but they are "F" height. LMT does not produce non-flattop rifles, therefore there's no need for them to distinguish between "F" and non-"F" FSBs. They are not marked "correctly" but are functionally and dimensionally correct. ~Augee |
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Joseph
If you go to a quad rail that is long enough to cover the FSB and and shave your FSB or get a low pro gas block installed then you just get the corresponding Magpul front sight and you should be Good to Go. As far as the Brake/Hider goes. Try a Rainer Arms hider or comp... not as pricey as the Battle Comp or Surefire. In my opinion the others you suggest that may be loud won't be any louder than the Izzy you had on it before. On the cheaper side you could get a A2x to bring you out over 16 inches as well Do a detail... and spend the extra on the Battlecomp you won't be disappointed. Good Luck, David Striker071 |
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I donno, I remember seeing a post a long time ago about bushmasters sights being marked differently to reflect the taller sight. What says it HAS to be marked with an F? In your first post you said they dont come with the right sights. Not the right markings on the sights. Just sayin... Some Bushmasters have been spec'ed by purchasers to have the proper components. When Colt developed the carbine back in the sixties, they found that a small percentage (less than 20%) of carbines could not be zeroed properly due to the reduced sight radius. Their solution at the time was to issue carbines with taller front sight posts. When the flattop M16A4 receiver was developed, the upper receiver had to be thickened as well, because Dick Swan was reportedly able to stick a sharpened pencil through the thin aluminum of the top rail. Coupled with the large scale adoption of the M16A4 and the M4 flattop rifles, Colt switched from taller front sight posts to new FSBs with the front sight pocket .040" higher and marked them as "F" to designate "flattop." This was primarily to simply the military supply system where "bench stock" of spare parts are used, meaning spare parts are pulled from a bin. It is easier to simply have one front sight post in the inventory, than two different ones to install since the taper pinned FSB is semi-permanent to the barrel and not usually removed. Bushmaster's carbines and flattops do not follow this convention of using the .040 higher front sight as it would mean they would have to complicate *their* manufacturing process to install the proper FSBs and/or FSPs. Rather they installed rifle FSBs and front sight posts on all of their offerings and instead chose to drop the rear sight base on the detachable carry handle. No modifications were made to their fixed carry handle carbines, however. What this means is that their fixed carry handle carbines have a built in failure rate. Approximately 15% of those carbines cannot be properly zeroed from the factory. They do, however sell a .040 taller front sight post. Bushmaster calculates, probably accurately, that the failure rate is low enough, and most users don't shoot enough and don't care enough that they can slime on by without addressing this issue. The few customers who do contact them about it are invited to purchase a .040 taller front sight post, or if they complain more publically, Bushmaster will be "gracious" enough to send them a free taller FSP. It's just good business in their eyes, if less than 15% of the rifles fail, and only a small percentage of those users will actually bother to complain, they can send out quite a few free FSPs before it approaches the cost of sourcing, purchasing, and assembling with proper components from the first place. Their flattops then, might have a backwards solution with their proprietary detachable carry handle, however, a great many people who purchase flattops purchase them with the expectation of installing an aftermarket rear sight. The problem with this is that almost all aftermarket front sights are calibrated for military height front sights - i.e. using the "F" marked FSB. Meaning that the innate failure rate has re-appeared. Again, the risk is taken that the majority of people who install rear flip ups probably do not even bother to properly zero them - and only a small percentage of rifles fail - again, they save money by not correcting their rifles, and simply addressing individual issues as they pop up. In other words - Bushmaster rifles typically *do not* come with the right front sight height, but since they consider the failure rate "acceptable" they do nothing about it even though they know it's an issue. Again, as a business, can I say this is a bad decision on their part? Perhaps not. But it makes you wonder if a 15% failure to zero rate is considered acceptable, what other parts do they apply the same logic and cost cutting procedures to? As a counter-example, LMT rifles do not come with "F" marked FSBs, but they are "F" height. LMT does not produce non-flattop rifles, therefore there's no need for them to distinguish between "F" and non-"F" FSBs. They are not marked "correctly" but are functionally and dimensionally correct. ~Augee Thanks for the clarification. Now that you meantioned it, I remember that being what the other post said. |
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Well I went to the range today with the new MBUS2 and I finally got it in paper, sort of...
I mis-remembered when I said that I was shooting low. My point of aim was way low to hit the paper, and at 50 yds, I was about a foot or so above the target. I called BM and spoke with one of their techs who reiterated what you all have been saying; I need a .040 taller front sight because BM "tried to save money on not engineering a proper flat top front gas block and reusing the A2 one, thus causing them to have to redesign the carry handle lower to work on the carbines." After basically telling me that BM was being cheap by not just supplying the M4's with the taller FSB, he wouldn't just send me the taller FSP. $5.50 to get it to me in about a week... I hate to say it, but this has really soured my on my BM. I liked it when I was using the iron sights, not a single problem. Now I would be happy just getting rid of if it and starting from scratch... |
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Well I went to the range today with the new MBUS2 and I finally got it in paper, sort of... I mis-remembered when I said that I was shooting low. My point of aim was way low to hit the paper, and at 50 yds, I was about a foot or so above the target. I called BM and spoke with one of their techs who reiterated what you all have been saying; I need a .040 taller front sight because BM "tried to save money on not engineering a proper flat top front gas block and reusing the A2 one, thus causing them to have to redesign the carry handle lower to work on the carbines." After basically telling me that BM was being cheap by not just supplying the M4's with the taller FSB, he wouldn't just send me the taller FSP. $5.50 to get it to me in about a week... I hate to say it, but this has really soured my on my BM. I liked it when I was using the iron sights, not a single problem. Now I would be happy just getting rid of if it and starting from scratch... Hate to say it, but that sounds par for the course for BM. FWIW, I've known plenty of Bushmasters to be good rifles individually, I'm just not enthused with them as a manufacturer - their acceptable failure rate seems way too high for me, particularly for a duty weapon. If you're still looking at getting a FF rail - DD makes great ones, and you can just use a rail mounted front sight. My personal favorite is the RIS II series, but I like the wider profile (compared to the Omega and LITE series) and I plan to eventually get an M203 when I scrape together the funds. The DD rails are uniformly great, in my opinion. As for the muzzle device, unless you're looking to suppress it - based on what you've said, I'd go with a cheap and simple YHM Phantom - flash suppression is good and close to the Vortex on a 14.5" barrel, and they also vaguely resemble the Bushmaster "Izzy" brake, which may as well, in my experience, have just been a thin piece of pipe welded to the end of a 14.5" barrel to let them sell them. ~Augee |
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I am going to have to wait for the new taller FSP to get in and see if it corrects my zero. Hopefully...
From there I plan on leaving it as it is until I can piece together a new upper, then I may sell of the complete BM... but i might keep it too... Don't know. I am now in the market to build a new complete upper to mate with the Smith lower i have on the BM M4. Damn, but shooting gets expensive.... Thank you to everyone who helped. I have some good suggestions to go on now. |
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